Supplemental Discipline 2013

[psh 25]

I tracked Fraser's analysis until seeing the angle shown in the clip above that starts at about 57 seconds. I really like Brown as a player, but there is a vicious launch of his arm and elbow right into Pominville's head. It's hidden nicely from the refs and you can only see it from that one angle, so you almost have to admire it. A subtle, but brutal blow. Pominville contributed to the hit's effectiveness by crouching and trying to reach through Brown, so that mitigates circumstances somewhat. I'd also guess that if Pominville is concussed, it's less from the elbow and more from hitting the back of his head on the ice. But, this was a targeted blow to the head and I'd bet on 1 or 2 games for Brown. Dirty and high likelihood to injure.

[RadioGaGa 162]

2 games for Brown:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=421582

[IPv6Freely 2100]

Wow, I'm shocked. Looking forward to the suspension video...

[wrangler 157]

Brown suspension video:

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=242240

The hit looks different in the angle shown in the video.

[IniNew 53]

About time Brown got something.

Now he's got prior history.

[psh 25]

That Brown video really makes you appreciate the speed and the nuance of the game. And I hate to say it, but it really does highlight what a smart and sneaky player Brown is. Reminds me of when Forsberg was at the top of his game and would appear to be trapped in a corner, a D would see his chance to take out a vulnerable superstar, but Forsberg would end up devastating the D with a similar, subtle shift like Brown's. Just keep that elbow away from heads, Dustin, and you'll be fine.

[Morten 2]

Ok, Brown diserved that. Imo just like Perry(Anaheim), a player that is good at the game, but does these stupid things that make me dislike them.

Mabye thats why I'm more into euro hockey style, real skills, no bashing and smashing.
But even the Sedins are taking that up a bit, to "survive", they take "some" liberties aswell.

?

[IPv6Freely 2100]

Looks like Ference will be out a couple games... wow. Brutal elbow!

[RadioGaGa 162]

Gryba has a noon call with the League for the Eller hit. Now, I'm not going to call it "dirty"....but everyone yelling "clean hit" confuses me too.

I know the League makes a distinction about "Targeting the head" and "Principle point of contact" and the pass was HORRIBLE!

But, Eller makes no attempt to brace his fall, which is likely what caused most of the facial fractures...well, not the fall as much as the landing.

He was OUT when he went down. There was definitely contact with the head...now, isn't THAT what they want to get rid of????

I think the League will fine him, no suspension...b/c of the "Targeting" and "Principle" clauses not being met.

Call me a homer (and I'm sure you will) I'm still not 100% comfortable with that kind of hit being a "clean hit" regardles sof the hittee/hitter's jersey colour.

[hamstercaster 2]

This all comes down to the hitter taking responsibility for his hits. Gryba could have easily held back on that hit but instead took advantage of a vulnerable player. Diaz who made a text book suicide pass should have been aware of Gryba too but imo in does not exuse Gryba's hit on Eller. Either way, some angles seem to show head contact while other angles, not so sure, but it was still a blind side hit no matter how you look at it and this is also something they want out of the game. The league has to be consequential with what they say and act on it. Gryba should be suspended if only for the blind side hit alone. Then a case needs to be done about the head being the primary point of contact or not and fine/suspend accordingly.

[osicks 6]

Call me a homer (and I'm sure you will) I'm still not 100% comfortable with that kind of hit being a "clean hit" regardles sof the hittee/hitter's jersey colour.

I agree. It doesn't matter that I'm a Habs fan, but I'd be uncomfortable with any player receiving a hit like that. Yes, the pass was a terrible call by Diaz and Gryba read the play from the moment it left Diaz's stick, but I still believe that Gryba could have made contact with Eller without even hurting him.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

2 games for Gryba. Didn't even deserve a penalty, let alone a suspension. Just one more step in trying to take hitting out of the game.

[Stewie 721]

if he wanted to make it a cleaner hit, he could have landed it on the other shoulder. he was going for the WOW hit, and made contact principly with the head. the league wants to take out hits to the head, so if your going to make that attempt, you better be able to accept the consequences if you contact the head first.

2 games for Gryba. Didn't even deserve a penalty, let alone a suspension. Just one more step in trying to take hitting out of the game.

[RadioGaGa 162]

For a hit that everyone seems to think was so clean, I'll be curious to see/hear what Shanny said to support his decision. i still say hitting up thorugh the shoulders/head is dirty...he could have hit him lower (not take out his knees lower. hip on hip or chest down lower)....taken him just as much out of the play, made Diaz look just as stupid for making the pass, and Lars would still be playing.

And, they should do away with this "Principle contact" crap. Contact to the head should be contact to the head...regardless of whether you hit shouldeer/chest/or whatever first. The fewer grey (gray) areas the better.

[Stewie 721]

For a hit that everyone seems to think was so clean, I'll be curious to see/hear what Shanny said to support his decision. i still say hitting up thorugh the shoulders/head is dirty...he could have hit him lower (not take out his knees lower. hip on hip or chest down lower)....taken him just as much out of the play, made Diaz look just as stupid for making the pass, and Lars would still be playing.

exactly this. there was better options available to him. the leagues not trying to get rid of hitting, they are trying to get rid of guys being carried off on stretchers. a direct shoulder to shoulder hit would have still been devastating but far less dangerous. making the game safer is far different than making the game badminton.

Do i think he intentionally went for the head? not really, could have been, but either way, theres ramifications.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

exactly this. there was better options available to him. the leagues not trying to get rid of hitting, they are trying to get rid of guys being carried off on stretchers. a direct shoulder to shoulder hit would have still been devastating but far less dangerous. making the game safer is far different than making the game badminton.

It sure looks like that's exactly what he tried to do. You can't blame the guy for doing all the right things (elbow down, hip out, feet on the ice, shoulder down) and it resulting in somebody getting hurt.

[Stewie 721]

It sure looks like that's exactly what he tried to do. You can't blame the guy for doing all the right things (elbow down, hip out, feet on the ice, shoulder down) and it resulting in somebody getting hurt.

you can when the principle point of contact is the head. you just dont hit the head, plain and simple, its the rules.

[Chadd 916]

For a hit that everyone seems to think was so clean, I'll be curious to see/hear what Shanny said to support his decision. i still say hitting up thorugh the shoulders/head is dirty...he could have hit him lower (not take out his knees lower. hip on hip or chest down lower)....taken him just as much out of the play, made Diaz look just as stupid for making the pass, and Lars would still be playing.

And, they should do away with this "Principle contact" crap. Contact to the head should be contact to the head...regardless of whether you hit shouldeer/chest/or whatever first. The fewer grey (gray) areas the better.

I agree, it will be very interesting to see how the suspension is supported. None of the angles I saw looked like a hit that met any of the criteria for a head shot.From what I saw, Gryba tried to get in front of the shoulder so as not to hit him from behind. Given the number of hits that they let off the hook because the players didn't meet all of the head shot criteria, I just can't see how this fits with past decisions.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

you can when the principle point of contact is the head. you just dont hit the head, plain and simple, its the rules.

The principal point of contact was NOT the head. A check to the head is completely legal as long as its not the principal point of contact. He went for the body, not the head.

[wrangler 157]

FWIW, I seem to recall that it's "a" , not "the", principal point of contact that's a criterion.

EDIT: Nope, got it wrong -- the rule says "the".

[RadioGaGa 162]

I agree, it will be very interesting to see how the suspension is supported. None of the angles I saw looked like a hit that met any of the criteria for a head shot.From what I saw, Gryba tried to get in front of the shoulder so as not to hit him from behind. Given the number of hits that they let off the hook because the players didn't meet all of the head shot criteria, I just can't see how this fits with past decisions.

The very first angle I saw (Looking from the goal line out..) Diaz's POV, looks liek his head snapped pretty hard...adn the fact that he didn't even attempt to brace his fall would indicate he's out. You gotta hit someone awfully hard in the shoulder to knock them out...there had to be some contact to the head. Obviously, it happened so fast...we'll never know and everyone sees what they want to see in the replay.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

The very first angle I saw (Looking from the goal line out..) Diaz's POV, looks liek his head snapped pretty hard...adn the fact that he didn't even attempt to brace his fall would indicate he's out. You gotta hit someone awfully hard in the shoulder to knock them out...there had to be some contact to the head. Obviously, it happened so fast...we'll never know and everyone sees what they want to see in the replay.

There's no question that there was contact to the head. That's not being debated. It's just a matter of where the principal point of contact was. That's what separates legal from illegal. I do not think it was the head based on any replay I've seen.

This entire situation very much seems like a reaction to the end result, rather than the hit itself (especially the ridiculous penalty called on the play - refs see a guy go flying and get hurt, well gee, gotta call SOMETHING, right?)

[Scotty_21 0]

There's no question that there was contact to the head. That's not being debated. It's just a matter of where the principal point of contact was. That's what separates legal from illegal. I do not think it was the head based on any replay I've seen.

This entire situation very much seems like a reaction to the end result, rather than the hit itself (especially the ridiculous penalty called on the play - refs see a guy go flying and get hurt, well gee, gotta call SOMETHING, right?)

I agree, I dont think it should have been a penalty. Just a reaction to the injury.

On the other side of the spectrum. Here is a hit from Jannik Hansen on TJ Galiardi http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1418085. Keep in mind this was in slow motion...real time the hit was pretty brutal.

No penalty was called for that hit. I (and many others) believe this should have clearly been a penalty for hit to the head and maybe boarding also?

I think because Galiardi was NOT injured they did not call a penalty.

I think both the Gryba and Hansen hits were blown calls.

What do you guys think?

[wrangler 157]

NHL video on Gryba suspension: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=245071

[IPv6Freely 2100]

Well there you go. Shanny thinks the head was the principal point of contact. That's the key to the whole thing. At that point, it becomes an illegal hit.

I don't agree with him on that, personally. Others might (and probably do).

He also talks about him not getting enough of the body. I don't think they should be suspending players for missing slightly a full check. IMO Gryba did absolutely everything he could to ensure it was a legal hit, he just simply missed. There was no targeting of the head. To me, this was a hockey play gone bad.

And thats where my earlier comment about taking checking out of the game came from. They are going to start discouraging players from going for clean open ice hits if despite keeping the elbow down, feet on the ice, etc they STILL get suspended due to the end result. The only other option for Gryba on this play was to just not make the check at all - which sucks for everyone.