Question re Pronating

[MR MIZUN0 0]

So, both of my feet pronate pretty bad. I have inserts for my shoes, and want to shim my skates. But my question is, how much do I shim them? Is it more of a trial and error thing?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Work from the inside out. First fix the way your foot fits into the skate before adjusting the out word workings.

[Davetronz 109]

Are you planning on using inserts under your footbeds inside the skate, or adding the shims between the skate holder and outsole?

[SCOMPL 14]

Might be a dumb question, but since you didn't specify - do you have inserts in your skates as well as in your shoes? If not, I'd recommend custom insoles, or Superfeet yellows.

[Vet88 674]

If you have someone who is experienced in this area then they can fit shims as you stand in your skates and check how the alignment of your feet are in respect to your calves and knees. If you haven't read it already, read this.

http://www.ladyinredcreations.com/Ankles_Down.htm

It's one of the best articles I have ever come across about the matter and my sincerest compliments go to the authors.

I specifically purchased graf skates because of how the NT holder is set up and how easy it is to adjust it for this issue. Other holders that are on Bauer / Easton / Rbk etc skates (except MLX) are much harder to work with because they don't have the room at the edge to move the holder.

A little bit of help with a dremel and a file, I moved the holders inwards until my feet were aligned correctly (it helped that the right skate holder was offset inwards out of the factory and worked for me immediately. I had to adjust the left skate holder by 2mm).

[Souldriver 64]

Here is a question. When I out my skates on if i stand up straight then my feet/skates look like this

| | legs

/ \ feet

They are always tilted so im standing on the inside edge. Is this pronation or is this normal?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

If you have someone who is experienced in this area then they can fit shims as you stand in your skates and check how the alignment of your feet are in respect to your calves and knees. If you haven't read it already, read this.

http://www.ladyinredcreations.com/Ankles_Down.htm

It's one of the best articles I have ever come across about the matter and my sincerest compliments go to the authors.

I specifically purchased graf skates because of how the NT holder is set up and how easy it is to adjust it for this issue. Other holders that are on Bauer / Easton / Rbk etc skates (except MLX) are much harder to work with because they don't have the room at the edge to move the holder.

A little bit of help with a dremel and a file, I moved the holders inwards until my feet were aligned correctly (it helped that the right skate holder was offset inwards out of the factory and worked for me immediately. I had to adjust the left skate holder by 2mm).

This article is far to old to come into play with todays equipment. Insoles and so on. It no longer is true that an insole will not fill the gap inside. That being said the movement of the holder still is efficient but I would never personally enlarge the holder holes I would re-fill the holes int he skate or have then shipped without holders and go from there. Just my 2 cents.

PS: as mentioned above with todays insoles I would start there and then move holders as needed!

[smu 29]

I have been involved in many post about two months ago on this same subject. I have had shims on the outside and finally went with orthotics on the inside, but it was never satisfactory. I have tracked a guy down in my area (Halifax) that knows how to move the holders medially and fill in the old holes, Graff or otherwise.

I have to select the skates I want and he will do the rest. I will then be able to have my center of gravity directly over the blades so I can be complete control of my skates for the first time in a long time. I know I am not playing to my potential because I do not have the confidence in my balance etc. with what I have now.

Good figure skaters have the right idea by having boots and blades purchased separately and mounted so their center of gravity is directly over the blades, what more can I say except I will post my experience with this method sometime before the new season. Halifax does not even have the 2013 Grafs in the stores yet!

Alan

[Vet88 674]

This article is far to old to come into play with todays equipment. Insoles and so on. It no longer is true that an insole will not fill the gap inside. That being said the movement of the holder still is efficient but I would never personally enlarge the holder holes I would re-fill the holes int he skate or have then shipped without holders and go from there. Just my 2 cents.

PS: as mentioned above with todays insoles I would start there and then move holders as needed!

The age of the article is irrelevant, everything said still holds true unless physics and gravity has changed since 2001. Yes, there are stiffer boots with better insoles but even with custom fits this still doesn't address the fact that the blade is not correctly positioned (ie offset inwards) with regards to the knee / shin / ankle / forefoot alignment to address the pronation. Even though boots today provide more support around the ankle eventually they will:

1: start to break down around the ankle areas due to the constant pressure on them because of the foot rolling inwards or

2: the foot starts to give out (bone spurs, sore tendons, etc) because of the constant pressure on and around the sides of the ankles.

This year I have spent a lot of time around some of the best figure skaters and trainers in our country and this is a pet topic of mine that I have discussed with them as I have learnt how to fix my "mild" pronation. Even with the technology in today's boots, all of them favor holder movement to correct pronation. For figure and speed this is just par for the course but for hockey players there seems to be a real mental block from manufacturers / shops / trainers downwards in dealing with this issue. MLX actually understood the issue and provided a solution, it's a pity Easton didn't pick up on it.

[smu 29]

The age of the article is irrelevant, everything said still holds true unless physics and gravity has changed since 2001. Yes, there are stiffer boots with better insoles but even with custom fits this still doesn't address the fact that the blade is not correctly positioned (ie offset inwards) with regards to the knee / shin / ankle / forefoot alignment to address the pronation. Even though boots today provide more support around the ankle eventually they will:

1: start to break down around the ankle areas due to the constant pressure on them because of the foot rolling inwards or

2: the foot starts to give out (bone spurs, sore tendons, etc) because of the constant pressure on and around the sides of the ankles.

This year I have spent a lot of time around some of the best figure skaters and trainers in our country and this is a pet topic of mine that I have discussed with them as I have learnt how to fix my "mild" pronation. Even with the technology in today's boots, all of them favor holder movement to correct pronation. For figure and speed this is just par for the course but for hockey players there seems to be a real mental block from manufacturers / shops / trainers downwards in dealing with this issue. MLX actually understood the issue and provided a solution, it's a pity Easton didn't pick up on it.

oldtrainerguy28 - as we have discussed before (you know a lot more than me) you are certainly correct and I should have mentioned you in my response.

As I indicated, I will post my experience once I have the holders adjusted on my new skates. BTW I was told that the Graf skates have rivets this year, but have since learned that they will still have the screw and post. Nice to see your post. - Alan

[MR MIZUN0 0]

I currently have yellow super feet in my skates; to be honest I don't notice between the superfeet and the stock insoles (bauer one100's). The one part that is working in my advantage is the local skate shop, they are willing to tinker as much as possible with my skates to get them right. I was thinking that I could simply add shims to the outside of the holders to correct for my pronating feet, and keep adjusting the height of the shims until the blade, holder, and my leg make a straight line. Or should I try and mount the holder closer to the instep of the skate instead of shims?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

If your going to move them then just move them shims is a waist of time to keep adding. Faster to just move them and use less rivets.

If your already using the Superfeet you can contact Superfeet and see if anyone around does enhancements. One of the Boston players I work with does just that he doesn't need a full orthodic its mainly his one foot so they just add cork to stabilize that one foot and align the holders as need be and Bam bobs your uncle.

[yianni54 2]

I have been involved in many post about two months ago on this same subject. I have had shims on the outside and finally went with orthotics on the inside, but it was never satisfactory. I have tracked a guy down in my area (Halifax) that knows how to move the holders medially and fill in the old holes, Graff or otherwise.

I have to select the skates I want and he will do the rest. I will then be able to have my center of gravity directly over the blades so I can be complete control of my skates for the first time in a long time. I know I am not playing to my potential because I do not have the confidence in my balance etc. with what I have now.

Good figure skaters have the right idea by having boots and blades purchased separately and mounted so their center of gravity is directly over the blades, what more can I say except I will post my experience with this method sometime before the new season. Halifax does not even have the 2013 Grafs in the stores yet!

Alan

How do they fill in the old holes?

[smu 29]

How do they fill in the old holes?

Here is the the topic discussed previously, see:

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/63374-ice-hockey-possible-to-align-graf-holdersblades-like-the-mlx-skates/

I believe that question was addressed - the holes left are filled in with epoxy/resin and is as strong as the original outsole.

Hope that helps.

Alan

[yianni54 2]

Hum thanks!!

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

How do they fill in the old holes?

There is an epoxy you can get almost anywhere I use Marine epoxy and put duct tape over the holes on the inside and then turn it upside down and over fill .

the holes let it sit and then harden. sand it down then fill it again and repeat. Sit overnight and drill all over again from scratch.

[smu 29]

There is an epoxy you can get almost anywhere I use Marine epoxy and put duct tape over the holes on the inside and then turn it upside down and over fill .

the holes let it sit and then harden. sand it down then fill it again and repeat. Sit overnight and drill all over again from scratch.

Thanks for the positive info, can't wait to get my skates aligned and not have to rely on imprecise orthotics or wedges.

Alan

[calixguy18 8]

If you have someone who is experienced in this area then they can fit shims as you stand in your skates and check how the alignment of your feet are in respect to your calves and knees. If you haven't read it already, read this.

http://www.ladyinredcreations.com/Ankles_Down.htm

It's one of the best articles I have ever come across about the matter and my sincerest compliments go to the authors.

I specifically purchased graf skates because of how the NT holder is set up and how easy it is to adjust it for this issue. Other holders that are on Bauer / Easton / Rbk etc skates (except MLX) are much harder to work with because they don't have the room at the edge to move the holder.

A little bit of help with a dremel and a file, I moved the holders inwards until my feet were aligned correctly (it helped that the right skate holder was offset inwards out of the factory and worked for me immediately. I had to adjust the left skate holder by 2mm).

Has your skating improved since you did that?

[Vet88 674]

Yes, dramatic improvement particularly with anything that involved the left with an inner edge (turning right, stopping right, accelerating). Overall everything was tighter and faster and more in control (especially at high speed). The foot still falls inwards on occasions, I can feel it go but as I get used to the Grafs these occasions are decreasing.

[smu 29]

Yes, dramatic improvement particularly with anything that involved the left with an inner edge (turning right, stopping right, accelerating). Overall everything was tighter and faster and more in control (especially at high speed). The foot still falls inwards on occasions, I can feel it go but as I get used to the Grafs these occasions are decreasing.

I like what I hear, this is all good news to me and oldtrainerguy28 has been right all along! Unfortunately the 2013 Grafs are not in the LHS yet. I like the idea that I can get to select a light flex boot for my 135lb weight.

[MR MIZUN0 0]

So just to let you guys know....I think I have a severe case of pronation. Any idea what to do?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Scholl/media/ScreenShot2013-06-04at94833PM_zpsb4872352.png.html

[smu 29]

So just to let you guys know....I think I have a severe case of pronation. Any idea what to do?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Scholl/media/ScreenShot2013-06-04at94833PM_zpsb4872352.png.html

I am not an expert or anywhere near it, but from your photos it does appear your tendon guards are not in line with your calf muscles, the left a bit worse than the right,

I have read that what you are doing should be done with your hands on your knees and then bending your knees to just over the toes keeping your legs in line and have someone snap the photo. I can't say that it will be different, but that is supposed to be the way. If you do have an over-pronation problem you can have your skate holders shimmed on the out-sole on the lateral/outside edge or medially, inside the boot with an orthotic. Or, inside the boot with something that will counter your pronation and placed towards the arch side.

The best method in my mind and what I will have done this summer is to have my blades aligned. This is done by having someone that knows what they are doing, move your holders towards the medial side of the boot to compensate for your pronation and this will put your center of gravity directly over the blades and effectively correct your problem. All the best figure skaters have this done and I bet a lot of pros do as well.

It took me literally years to get this far. I am looking towards a good season next year at the age of 64!

Search the web for "podiatry today + pronation"

Good luck - Alan

[jimmy 194]

So just to let you guys know....I think I have a severe case of pronation. Any idea what to do?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Scholl/media/ScreenShot2013-06-04at94833PM_zpsb4872352.png.html

Yes, see a specialist, not some yahoo at a hockey shop. getting a wrong correction is just as bad as no correction.

[Vet88 674]

Here is a question. When I out my skates on if i stand up straight then my feet/skates look like this

| | legs

/ \ feet

They are always tilted so im standing on the inside edge. Is this pronation or is this normal?

Depends on how long you have been skating and what kind of skates you are in. Beginners find it really hard to control any edge and can lean inwards or outwards until you begin to gain control and skate better.

So just to let you guys know....I think I have a severe case of pronation. Any idea what to do?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Scholl/media/ScreenShot2013-06-04at94833PM_zpsb4872352.png.html

Do your street shoes wear evenly across the heel or more on the outside? This is an easy step to identify pronation (your foot rolls outward on contact with the pavement to counter the roll inwards during the step). How long have you been skating and what kind of boots are you in?

As jimmy says, if you think you pronate then go see a specialist. They will video your gait, analyse how you are walking and tell you exactly what is wrong. If you can find one who also understands the mechanics of ice skating then you will be well on your way to getting things fixed.