OPS benefits?

[MDE3 0]

My son never used composite shafts or sticks until he reached 14 and that was simply to see if it was cost effective and could equal the performance of wood.... <_< . I used to plane his wooden shafts to get the right flex for him as he grew up and heat and bend the blades to his liking. At 13 he was shooting the puck at 70 mph occasionally..maybe two in five shots with a wooden stick. At 18 and much stronger, and with a variety of composites tried....he goes over 80 only rarely. We never get much more life out of the composites...a month on average is good if we are talking the blade cracking or softening...this does not include catastrophic breakage from impact....about 1 in 4. He does like the feel more with some of the composites, but he there were equally large differences in feel between the wooden sticks too....How much is in the head?

[joshy207 15]

I think all this "technology" and "performance" in hockey equipment is pure bullshit. And I manage a hockey shop for a living. Quinn's comment is right, I'd say 95% of those who use OPS' or composite shafts and blades are not good enough and/or not strong enough to realize the benefits that the stick may or may not really offer. And I think the percentage of players who will buy Synergy skates that have no business wearing them will be even higher. I tried that skate on... yeah, it's surprisingly comfortable for a composite boot, but dammit, I couldn't even tie the thing up tight! How are you supposed to skate in skates that you can't tie? If you're not over 180 lbs., not a super-strong skater, not playing at least AAA or Jr. A, and don't blow through every other kind of skate in under 6 months, you have no business wearing a Synergy skate. As for this "lighter" load of crap... it's just that, a load of crap. Work out. Lift weights. Everything gets lighter when you do that! And you'll shoot harder and skate faster, too! Amazing concept. And how is it that sticks cost over $130 US, skates over $400 US, and none of them hold up? I see guys I play with in seniors using skates that are 15-20 years old. I'd LOVE to see (let's say) a pair of Vapor XXs with 15 years of use on them. Hell, I'd settle for 3 years...

Sorry for the rant, but basically what I'm saying is, we're all suckers.

[chippa13 1844]

The difference of release doesn't really matter; 2 billionths of a second isn't gona be enough time for the goalie to react differently anyways (I think nerves fire at like 200m/s or somethin).

You're actually wrong on this. You should check out Brodeur's complaints about the ops. I think you'll find it quite enlightening.

[Jim A 4]

I think we can all agree that the biggest drawback to wood is what makes shafts and OPS so great..consistency...

it wasn't that long ago that i used to make a 2 hour drive to pick out a dozen or so wood sticks at South Windsor in CT...you could have 12 PMP 7030's or Montreal 66's..in the same curve and all would feel different..

also..when it comes to OPS's..the only one(s) that I really felt any difference with performance wise over a shaft/blade combo for me are

XN10...puck came off the stick faster...best stick i've ever used...all categories..

Vapor XX - liked the balance..not the same jump as the XN10..but a tad better than a 2pc combo...

[prenny207 1]

this topic talks largely about performance and release time. whatever happened to wrist shots and low snap shots. release and performane is based mostly on slapshots and big snappers. man i wish youth coaches would teach the basics.

i will agree with jim on the consistancy... whether they be good or bad, they are consistant.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I found the release was most important on snap shots. I will use a wrist shot less than 5% of the time, the snapshot is more convenient and works better for me. The lag with wood seems to come into play on all my shots.

[Pachocolate29 0]

yea me being a goalie.. a snapshot gives me less time to get ready and save the puck but with a wrist shot you pull it back i get set.. so yea snapshots are really good, but also backhands are really hard for a goalie to read where they' re going.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

Psychological pricing is the best marketing mind-fuck ever invented.

And wrt wood sticks, they're just as easy to use as composites. I think most people just got mind-fucked as well with all the hype. A few NHL scorers still use wood or have used wood in the last few years and it hasn't seem to have affected their shots...Ziggy Palffy doesn't seem to have trouble scoring with wood sticks...nor Elias or Havlat...conversely, using an OPS has not made a guy like Tyson Nash or Domi score any more than they would if they used a wood stick.

I completely argree that 99% of ppl can't get the most out of an OPS. I for one am an advocate of wood. At the very most, 2 piece sticks are perfectly fine...yeah, 8 year olds with $200+ sticks is completely ridiculous.

And Brodeur - he's also been duped...it's psychological. He hasn't been any less of a goalie since OPS were introduced...get over it.

The balance issue - don't mistake lightness for balance. The 5030 is a VERY well balanced stick - sure it's a LITTLE heavier than a 2 piece combo, but it doesn't make much difference. 5030s are already pretty light for a wood stick.

The balance issue comes into play in two piece combos I find - many use wood blades in their shafts, and the heavier wood blade causes a severe imbalance and makes many sticks blade heavy. OPS and woodies are less prone to imbalance.

[chippa13 1844]

Psychological pricing is the best marketing mind-fuck ever invented.

And wrt wood sticks, they're just as easy to use as composites. I think most people just got mind-fucked as well with all the hype. A few NHL scorers still use wood or have used wood in the last few years and it hasn't seem to have affected their shots...Ziggy Palffy doesn't seem to have trouble scoring with wood sticks...nor Elias or Havlat...conversely, using an OPS has not made a guy like Tyson Nash or Domi score any more than they would if they used a wood stick.

I completely argree that 99% of ppl can't get the most out of an OPS. I for one am an advocate of wood. At the very most, 2 piece sticks are perfectly fine...yeah, 8 year olds with $200+ sticks is completely ridiculous.

And Brodeur - he's also been duped...it's psychological. He hasn't been any less of a goalie since OPS were introduced...get over it.

The balance issue - don't mistake lightness for balance. The 5030 is a VERY well balanced stick - sure it's a LITTLE heavier than a 2 piece combo, but it doesn't make much difference. 5030s are already pretty light for a wood stick.

The balance issue comes into play in two piece combos I find - many use wood blades in their shafts, and the heavier wood blade causes a severe imbalance and makes many sticks blade heavy. OPS and woodies are less prone to imbalance.

Yeah, Brodeur has been duped by the hype. It couldn't be the fact that he's played more games than any other goaltender since the ops came out and is speaking from his experience.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

Yeah, Brodeur has been duped by the hype. It couldn't be the fact that he's played more games than any other goaltender since the ops came out and is speaking from his experience.

Maybe he's played the most games of any goalie since OPS hit it big, but has he been a shittier goalie since they were introduced? I don't think so. He's still a top goalie, and I don't think he's ever been hurt by some guy blasting a 200mph slapper at him all because there are composite sticks now...

[sherwood21 0]

conversely, using an OPS has not made a guy like Tyson Nash or Domi score any more than they would if they used a wood stick.

Tyson Nash or Tie Domi or Oliwa or any other player in the NHL might not score a lot, but does that make them bad players? Think of a Bantam/Midget AAA player. The best on your local team. How good do they seem to be? Tyson Nash/Domi/Oliwa are all good players, they might not show that when you watch them on Hockey Night in Canada. But that doesn't mean they aren't good, they good probably dangle the jesus out of all of us, and I know that Nash has a bullet shot.

[asdfa 0]

conversely, using an OPS has not made a guy like Tyson Nash or Domi score any more than they would if they used a wood stick.

Tyson Nash or Tie Domi or Oliwa or any other player in the NHL might not score a lot, but does that make them bad players? Think of a Bantam/Midget AAA player. The best on your local team. How good do they seem to be? Tyson Nash/Domi/Oliwa are all good players, they might not show that when you watch them on Hockey Night in Canada. But that doesn't mean they aren't good, they good probably dangle the jesus out of all of us, and I know that Nash has a bullet shot.

he's just saying that they are bad players, he's just saying taht different equipment hasn't made them any better

[sherwood21 0]

Do you mean he was saying they weren't bad players asdfa?

[asdfa 0]

Do you mean he was saying they weren't bad players asdfa?

exactly, he's just saying that OPS's don't make people better players.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

I never said that Tyson Nash or Domi were bad players. The reality of the situation is that they are not great players at the NHL level, but the fact that they are capable of being valuable contributors in the league is a testament to their skill level.

I know firsthand, because Wade Belak has been playing at our local rink during the lockout, and he has to play at HALF speed so that we can keep up. I have no doubt that Domi and T. Nash can dangle the shit out of everyone on this board.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Yeah, Brodeur has been duped by the hype.  It couldn't be the fact that he's played more games than any other goaltender since the ops came out and is speaking from his experience. 

Maybe he's played the most games of any goalie since OPS hit it big, but has he been a shittier goalie since they were introduced? I don't think so. He's still a top goalie, and I don't think he's ever been hurt by some guy blasting a 200mph slapper at him all because there are composite sticks now...

Well, the Devils' defense allows him to face low-percentage shots...:)

[joshy207 15]

I have to chime in on the Brodeur comments.

I for one don't think Brodeur has gotten any worse since the OPS took over. He's still the benchmark for all NHL goaltenders.

I also think that he'd know if guys were shooting harder with OPS than they were with wood.

BUT, here's the kicker, Brodeur faces NHL shooters, guys who shoot pucks for a living. Guys who practice extensively every day, as well as excercise and mold their bodies to allow them to shoot harder, quicker, and more accurately. These players are included in the small percentage who can actually benefit from an OPS. Brodeur is not referring to players in Bantam House, Over-20, or the nightly pickup skate, and not even the High School or Travel/AAA player. So, to take what Brodeur has said about the OPS and apply it to everyone... is simply not accurate.

[Eazy_b97 1]

What is the purpose of this discussion? Do OPS improve some peoples games? I believe so, not everyones, but generally the people who feel it does stick with an OPS. Whether its mental, the cool factor, or whatever they are getting what they want. Everyone can get by with the bottom end of everything, but you make choices in your life on what to splurge on and what not to splurge on. How's this differen't than buying a nice car, house or meal? Maybe its a status symbol, maybe its not, as long as the person buying it, can afford it, and the person using it is happy I see no harm.

But Hell it's 1:30am and I've been doing on-line quizzes all night with Hotshotd12, what the hell do I know.

[chippa13 1844]

Yeah, Brodeur has been duped by the hype.  It couldn't be the fact that he's played more games than any other goaltender since the ops came out and is speaking from his experience. 

Maybe he's played the most games of any goalie since OPS hit it big, but has he been a shittier goalie since they were introduced? I don't think so. He's still a top goalie, and I don't think he's ever been hurt by some guy blasting a 200mph slapper at him all because there are composite sticks now...

Maybe you should find his comments on the subject before speaking anymore on this. It had nothing to do with his numbers as a goalie, rather how he saw them effecting the game. Plus, his comments were echoed by other NHL goaltenders. I don't know about you, but when the guy whose job is to stop shots says he notices a difference since OPS came on the scene, I tend to listen. But hey, you can believe what you want.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

OPS get the shots off faster so goalies have less time to react. That's what Brodeur was trying to get across.

[MDE3 0]

I talked about this whole topic with my son last night, and he busted me...I come out all sanctimonious about the cost of new technology and the effect it is having on the sport......and he reminds me that he always had the newest and best stuff before anyone else did....and that I was basically full of sh*t..... <_< Said he was going to come on here and tell all the kids to pay no heed to any BS from MDE. and just "go for the throat".....hey that's what Christmas is all about..... B)

A reality check is always good.......

I reminded him that in exchange for "getting the good stuff" his ass got worked harder in practice than anyone elses. :D ..at least by me.

However I maintain it's still not too late to learn from experience...I know my own love affair with maximising my son's chances to excell have somewhat clouded my overview of what is needed by the sport overall, and where this "love affair" with equipment is taking it. Better equipment can never become a crutch for hard work, and not having it does not mean you cannot compete...which is too often the subliminal message we have all been subjected to.

[chippa13 1844]

OPS get the shots off faster so goalies have less time to react. That's what Brodeur was trying to get across.

That was part of it. He was also concerned that since the sticks loaded energy faster and easier and that some shots were coming not only faster but harder than before. He felt there was a real safety issue for goaltenders.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

OPS get the shots off faster so goalies have less time to react.  That's what Brodeur was trying to get across.

That was part of it. He was also concerned that since the sticks loaded energy faster and easier and that some shots were coming not only faster but harder than before. He felt there was a real safety issue for goaltenders.

Right, so shots are coming in faster so he has less time to react - yet his stats have been basically identical the last 6 years...to suggest that shooters have that much of an advantage from composites is ridiculous. I don't care if you're Rick Nash or Tyson Nash - it's no real advantage. A guy with a quick ass release like Sakic isn't scoring any more goals than he used to, and lower tier guys aren't scoring any more either - I for one don't feel that the release is any quicker. The sticks are lighter, and that may help a bit, but that's it...it's not like night and day...

And shots are also so much harder now that goalies are getting hurt by stopping pucks. Uh, no. I don't think I can recall any one instance of a goalie taking a puck in the chest in the last, well forever, and not getting up. C'mon, no goalie is getting hurt because he stops a shot, that's just dumb to try to use that as an excuse.

These sticks don't make people shoot harder Chippa, no one is really topping 100-105mph on slappers - the same as Iafrate did with wood.

[Chadd 916]

There have been a large number of hand injuries to goalies over the last few years and that could easily be attributed to OPS.

As for Brodeur, he's safe as long as they don't make a stick that makes a wraparound easier.

[beaucoup_fish 0]

There have been a large number of hand injuries to goalies over the last few years and that could easily be attributed to OPS.

As for Brodeur, he's safe as long as they don't make a stick that makes a wraparound easier.

How can OPS possibly be damaging to a goalie's hand unless someone actually comes down across the glove with the stick? Unless I've been living under a rock for the past 10 years, I haven't heard of a significant number (I actually can't think of ONE) of hand injuries to goalies caused by SHOTS - at least not at the NHL level.

Care to cite an example?