Supplemental Discpline 2013-14

[Jason Harris 31]

There wasn't a penalty, so maybe nothing will happen, but it sure looked like Jesse Winchester jumped into Chris Kelly and elbowed him.

[wrangler 157]

We'll find out soon. His telephone hearing is in an hour.

[stevelknievel 51]

3 game suspension for Winchester

[wrangler 157]

Shanahan video for Winchester:

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=479923&catid=35

[hunterphfr 12]

Quoted wrong post.

Pinning someone to the boards is supposed to be interference now. The problem is that guys are trying to sweep the leg of someone several feet away from the boards, that's not how it's supposed to be done.

Not sure about the NHL, but in USA Hockey pinning someone who is playing or in possession of the puck is perfectly legal. Has it's own section in one of the coaches manuals, I coach it and use it all the time. Really the only play you have on a player up against the boards that has his back to you.

I think the sweeping action comes from the pinner being slightly off center and trying to regain position by drawing the opposing player and the pinners knee into alignment to gain positional advantage allowing a nice solid pin as opposed to something the pinnee can easily break out of.

[All Flash 49]

Hello, felt like it was time for me to chime in since all these hits and suspensions are happening.

Will say first I think there is too much grey area in the rules and not enough consistency from the NHL brass , all the way to the refs. But maybe a lil more onus on the refs because they directly affect the game. For good and bad. Secondly, there is so much talk of the results from said "questionable" hits. I say "questionable" hits because as with any opinion it is in the eye of the beholder. There should be no regard for any resulting injury from hits, fights, or what have you, because if its illegal, you crossed the line and should be punished accordingly. Basically, either its wrong or its not. It should be the same suspension regardless of injury as it is the act, not the result. As I said, too much grey area in the rules, and not enough consistency in doling out punishment. This all equals confused players.

3rd, I believe there is not enough onus on most of the hitees. Pure headshots like Brendon Saads blatant elbow to an Edmonton players head tonight not withstanding.

Since when is it skill to skate with your head down through the neutral zone. Let me be very clear in saying that you should not be in the NHL if you can't keep your head up. Just like those who think fighters like John Scott shouldn't be in the NHL. Betcha he knows you can't skate around with your head down. "Its just a game"is the saying. A game where people get millions of dollars to go as fast as they can to to hit, steal the puck, not let the other player do what he wants. Which most of the time all happens in the blink of an eye. All of this has huge implications with regards to winning and making money. If most players gave other players a pass because they are in a semi dangerous or even dangerous situation there would be alot of players out of jobs, and no Stanley Cups to speak of. Last I checked, thats bad for business. Especially if your in the business of winning. So not just a game after all. Never mind that there is too many players giving their backs to other players putting themselves in harms way on purpose. Also I agree with Chippa and don't like guys like Kronwall who go looking to kill guys. My team is the Habs, and Subban is awesome. As a fan because everyteam has dirty players I'm OK when Subban runs someone every once in awhile with a big throwing of his ass, but as a player I do not condone him running players as it is bad for the game. And yes I know I probably shouldn't have differing opinions as it sends a mixed message. As for the opinion I have read a few times in this thread just because someone has never been suspended for a text book "clean" hit or "hockey play" does not mean they are righteous. Chara is a perfect example of this. I also shake my head at those who point to the fact a player has never been suspended as a way to justify the way they play. Hockey is an already inherently dangerous sport, now add millions of dollars to the mix with a dash of win more get paid more culture and you get players that will push the boundaries of what is acceptable. This goes for every pro sport. Inconsideration is all through society. Worse even when you dont have a direct connection to someone. I.E; not on my team. What makes hockey immune?

Again this all just my point of view. Which I don't regard all that improtant as I feel I just needed to get that of my chest more than really making a point. But Anywho I digress. Thanx for listening. :)

[Chadd 916]

Hello, felt like it was time for me to chime in since all these hits and suspensions are happening.

Will say first I think there is too much grey area in the rules and not enough consistency from the NHL brass , all the way to the refs. But maybe a lil more onus on the refs because they directly affect the game. For good and bad. Secondly, there is so much talk of the results from said "questionable" hits. I say "questionable" hits because as with any opinion it is in the eye of the beholder. There should be no regard for any resulting injury from hits, fights, or what have you, because if its illegal, you crossed the line and should be punished accordingly. Basically, either its wrong or its not. It should be the same suspension regardless of injury as it is the act, not the result. As I said, too much grey area in the rules, and not enough consistency in doling out punishment. This all equals confused players.

3rd, I believe there is not enough onus on most of the hitees. Pure headshots like Brendon Saads blatant elbow to an Edmonton players head tonight not withstanding.

Since when is it skill to skate with your head down through the neutral zone. Let me be very clear in saying that you should not be in the NHL if you can't keep your head up. Just like those who think fighters like John Scott shouldn't be in the NHL. Betcha he knows you can't skate around with your head down. "Its just a game"is the saying. A game where people get millions of dollars to go as fast as they can to to hit, steal the puck, not let the other player do what he wants. Which most of the time all happens in the blink of an eye. All of this has huge implications with regards to winning and making money. If most players gave other players a pass because they are in a semi dangerous or even dangerous situation there would be alot of players out of jobs, and no Stanley Cups to speak of. Last I checked, thats bad for business. Especially if your in the business of winning. So not just a game after all. Never mind that there is too many players giving their backs to other players putting themselves in harms way on purpose. Also I agree with Chippa and don't like guys like Kronwall who go looking to kill guys. My team is the Habs, and Subban is awesome. As a fan because everyteam has dirty players I'm OK when Subban runs someone every once in awhile with a big throwing of his ass, but as a player I do not condone him running players as it is bad for the game. And yes I know I probably shouldn't have differing opinions as it sends a mixed message. As for the opinion I have read a few times in this thread just because someone has never been suspended for a text book "clean" hit or "hockey play" does not mean they are righteous. Chara is a perfect example of this. I also shake my head at those who point to the fact a player has never been suspended as a way to justify the way they play. Hockey is an already inherently dangerous sport, now add millions of dollars to the mix with a dash of win more get paid more culture and you get players that will push the boundaries of what is acceptable. This goes for every pro sport. Inconsideration is all through society. Worse even when you dont have a direct connection to someone. I.E; not on my team. What makes hockey immune?

Again this all just my point of view. Which I don't regard all that improtant as I feel I just needed to get that of my chest more than really making a point. But Anywho I digress. Thanx for listening. :)

When I saw that hit last night, my first thought was that it should be a suspension. Even as a Hawks fan, I have to say that the league should at least be taking a long look at that one.

I don't think anyone expects players to let up completely when someone is in a vulnerable position. There is a difference between giving up and trying to do as much damage as possible. The game used to be played a lot differently and the violence (and intent of the violence) has been ramped up significantly over the last decade or two.

[All Flash 49]

I agree Chadd, that's why I brought up the money and inconsideration for others aspect, bad combo to begin with. But most players don't do things for no reason, whether it be a pass discretion against them or a teammate. Maybe a cheapshot or stick infraction. Or maybe it says it's OK because it was within the rules. Like Kronwall and his fans seem to think. As for giving passes to other players, in this business the winning culture allows for too much grey area and interpretation. Again because its justified by the rules.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On the lighter side:

Dave "Tiger" Williams asked Shanahan yesterday after the Legends Classic game if a player hits a coach over the head and breaks his stick what kind of fine would that be today? Bendan replies: Geez Tiger depends on if it was your coach or not? Tiger says: It was me and I hit Scotty Bowman when the ref wasn't looking. Shanny says: Tiger they only had newspapers back then not sure I would get to see it then. LOL...and then says you really hit Scotty over the head? Tiger: Fing right I did smashed good to!.....LMAO..

these guys are a riot!

[Jason Harris 31]

That's somewhat similar to the conversation I had with Shanahan yesterday, which ties into something earlier in the thread.

"Hey, I gotta ask you something. Do these guys not realize there are cameras at the games?!?"

"Oh, sometimes it's just adrenaline."

"Well, I admit I'm a Boston fan, so I'm referring to Jesse Winchester elbowing Chris Kelly. What was he thinking??"

"You know, sometimes guys go for a hit, but miss, so they reach further to make contact. Winchester reached with his elbow. But, to his credit, he was one of the few to own up to it. He said he knew the guy and wasn't trying to hurt him, but it was a brain fart and he said he deserved to be suspended."

I respect Winchester for owning up to it.

[All Flash 49]

I'm assuming the blatant elbow from Brandon Saad to an Edmonton players head a couple nights ago has gone unpunished? Haven't seen anything on it.

[Chadd 916]

I'm assuming the blatant elbow from Brandon Saad to an Edmonton players head a couple nights ago has gone unpunished? Haven't seen anything on it.

Looks like there is no league action on it.

[All Flash 49]

So sad and confusing. Pure headshot only gets a 2 minute minor.

[psh 25]

Elbow to the head of a defenseless goaltender, not touched by an opposing player, no attempt to evade contact, elbow extended. Hope that Shanahan comes down hard on Kadri. Can't have goalies become sitting ducks. Seeing that elbow direct to the head, and then the back of Backstrom's head bounce off of the ice is absolutely sickening.

http://t.co/lsp8V4l90O

[wrangler 157]

Looked like there was time to avoid contact, at least to the head. Also looked like a lot of the arm motion was after the head hit.

It'll be interesting to see how they view this one.

[psh 25]

Looked like there was time to avoid contact, at least to the head. Also looked like a lot of the arm motion was after the head hit.It'll be interesting to see how they view this one.

2 mins to Kadri for goaltender interference. Goonish game-apparently rookie refs projecting no authority. Backstrom gone. I assume under the concussion protocol.

[Chadd 916]

The arm comes up after contact, I'm not convinced that it added anything to the impact.

[wrangler 157]

The arm comes up after contact, I'm not convinced that it added anything to the impact.

That's what I was thinking.

Looks like a good one for Fraser's next topic.

[EBondo 233]

But the fact that he got a match penalty later in the game doesn't do him any good, either.

http://twitpic.com/dl68tm

[wrangler 157]

Looks like a guy who just doesn't care. I'm not familiar with him -- does he have a history?

[Jason Harris 31]

I haven't thought of him as dirty in the games I've seen.

Actually, I don't think he tried to run Backstrom. However, he was obviously out of control and didn't notice until it was far too late that he was going to collide with Backstrom. At that point, it seems like he was trying to squeeze in his body, which led to his side and elbow hitting first.

[bigdmac 12]

No formal suspension history for Kadri; however he has been known to push the limit a little bit. I expect a suspension for the second hit, the first one is a toss up tough for us to judge that one.

[IPv6Freely 2094]

The first one looked worse to me than the second one, when comparing both slo-mo replays.

[bigdmac 12]

May well have been, I didn't watch the slo mo's but from the full speed replays I thought the second one looked worse.

[Chadd 916]

May well have been, I didn't watch the slo mo's but from the full speed replays I thought the second one looked worse.

The second one was significantly worse, I would guess 3-5 games.