Supplemental Discpline 2013-14

[chippa13 1844]

By Jack Edwards standards he was very reserved in his call of the Lucic fight and his call of Thornton's actions sounded more like he was shocked by what was happening than anything else. Other times he can get completely out of hand.

It will be very interesting to see what Neal ends up with today. I wonder how much culpability will be laid at his feet for precipitating what led to Thornton's foolish actions. I believe that if the kneeing doesn't happen then Orpik doesn't leave on a stretcher.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=438582

Neal got 5 games. He should have got an additional two just for sounding this ridiculous, it was even worse seeing the actual video of this comment on NHL Tonight:

"I mean, what do you want me to say? That I was trying to hit him?" Neal said following the game. "No, I'm going by him. I don't get out of the way, like I said. I need to be more careful and I guess get my knee out of the way, but I'm not trying to hit him in the head or injure him or anything like that."

[wrangler 157]

After seeing the different angles, I have to agree with Shanahan that Neal deliberately chose a path to take him into Marchand. I see his legs tilt right, to take him right, which would miss Marchand, then tilt back left, to take him into Marchand. This would have been a good opportunity for Shanahan to abandon his silly policy of not handing out tougher penalties when there's no apparent injury.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=506355

[Trooper 8]

It will be very interesting to see what Neal ends up with today. I wonder how much culpability will be laid at his feet for precipitating what led to Thornton's foolish actions. I believe that if the kneeing doesn't happen then Orpik doesn't leave on a stretcher.

That's just as bad as suspensions based on outcome. "You get a bigger suspension because someone else acted like just as big a jacka$$ as you and did something later in the game..."

[chippa13 1844]

When the reaction was immediate and it threw gasoline onto the fire like it did, I think it is a fair question. The kneeing happened mere seconds before Thornton jumped Orpik.

[Stewie 721]

i think you need to handle all actions individually. The Thorton act shouldnt have ever happened, plain and simple, no matter what Neal did. I dont think Neal was responsible for what happened to Orpik, He made a stupid bush move and shouldnt get extra because some other guy decided to go nuts afterwords.

[Chadd 916]

It certainly looks as though the league considers fighting important when you see players posing for promotional clips like the one of Thornton in this video at 3:51:

The commentary by the announcers shows their attitude, as well. And it's interesting to add Fraser's opinions on the officiating: http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=438513

Looking at the hits, it looks like Orpik went up into Eriksson's head, and it's hard to say that Neal didn't intend to hit Marchand's head with his knee. While he didn't obviously extend the knee, he certainly showed that he had no intention of avoiding that contact.

I frequently disagree with where Fraser is coming from in his column, but I think he is spot on with this one. The way the refs handled the game, as well as all of the "no-calls" lately makes me think that something was sent down recently.

[wrangler 157]

I can understand how you can think that, but then a hearing for Phaneuf after a no-call just adds to the confusion.

I disagree with Fraser sometimes, too, but I, also, think that column generally made sense.

[Law Goalie 147]

Agreed on Fraser, both generally and in this. His comments on supplemental discipline are generally better than his live playcalling reviews, which tend to be pretty unrealistic, from my perspective.

After seeing the different angles, I have to agree with Shanahan that Neal deliberately chose a path to take him into Marchand. I see his legs tilt right, to take him right, which would miss Marchand, then tilt back left, to take him into Marchand. This would have been a good opportunity for Shanahan to abandon his silly policy of not handing out tougher penalties when there's no apparent injury.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=506355

Indeed. It really reminds me of Ference's assassination of Halpern a few years ago in the playoffs: the same 'I'm deliberately looking away, casually extending a massive plastic cap on a well-supported joint into your unsuspecting head, ho-hum' approach. Neal was very, very lucky to only get 5.

What worries me is that Thornton will probably get more than 5, despite having a cleaner record than Neal, and Neal's play being far, far more dangerous. I'd way rather take a few short straight jabs to the face with a gloved hand than an armour-plated knee in-stride to the temple, both in terms of total force and the axonal effects inside the skull. But because Orpik shows immediate symptoms and Marchand's are either luckily absent or merely delayed, watch what happens... That's ultimately why the 'injury on the play' criterion Shanahan has embraced is so silly: it flies in the face of everything we know (the known-knowns and the known-unknowns) of TBI. Guys will sometimes finish games or fights only to succumb much later to career-ending, life-altering problems; some will drop like flies and be fine in a few days. We know we can't predict concussion effects or recoveries; we do know exactly how they happen, which makes punishing the act instead of the effect of paramount import.

[wrangler 157]

It also seems to smack more of retribution, reminding me of victim impact statements. I wonder if many people don't understand that there's a difference between payback and punishment.

[Law Goalie 147]

Wait, you mean a correctional facility isn't just a rape zoo?

[chippa13 1844]

I think Thornton may be the recipient of another "because you know better" suspension from Shanahan. He has never been suspended before and from what I've seen of him in Boston is always able to keep things on the right side of the line.

[wrangler 157]

Wait, you mean a correctional facility isn't just a rape zoo?

And now we have the distinction between theory and practice.

[wrangler 157]

Two games for Phaneuf; no video yet.

[wrangler 157]

Shanahan video on Phaneuf: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=506897

Nice little slash by Clarkson.

Thornton's hearing is set for Friday afternoon in NYC, according to TSN.

[IPv6Freely 2094]

Two games looks about right for Phaneuf.

[Chadd 916]

I can understand how you can think that, but then a hearing for Phaneuf after a no-call just adds to the confusion.

It fits into their pattern of second guessing and reacting, rather than being proactive.

That's ultimately why the 'injury on the play' criterion Shanahan has embraced is so silly: it flies in the face of everything we know (the known-knowns and the known-unknowns) of TBI. Guys will sometimes finish games or fights only to succumb much later to career-ending, life-altering problems; some will drop like flies and be fine in a few days. We know we can't predict concussion effects or recoveries; we do know exactly how they happen, which makes punishing the act instead of the effect of paramount import.

I still believe that the standard in question comes from above Shanny's pay grade, as does a lot of "direction" on what is and is not acceptable.

[EBondo 233]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Brayden Schenn get anything for his nasty cross-check on Kris Versteeg a little bit ago.

[wrangler 157]

That didn't look like it slipped up a shoulder pad or changed direction. It looked like the stick went deliberately right for the head.

[EBondo 233]

Exactly what I thought. And like Keith Jones said in the intermission, he's a repeat offender (one suspension for one game)

[Chadd 916]

I don't think he'll get anything for it, but It's certainly possible. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[RadioGaGa 162]

What do you figure a game or 2 for Emelin after his 5/gm elbow on Downie? Looked like a bit of a flop job by Downie if you ask me...but it was comparable to the Cowan elbow that got 2 the other day.

[chippa13 1844]

Aren't they all flop jobs by Downie?

[mojo122 535]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Brayden Schenn get anything for his nasty cross-check on Kris Versteeg a little bit ago.

Fined for the cross-check:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695835&navid=nhl:topheads

[Chadd 916]

I can't find the hit and I missed that part of the game.

[RadioGaGa 162]

http://www.tsn.ca/videohub/?collection=72&show=217178

It's part of this package