Virginia Tech STAR rating system being developed for hockey helmets

[flip12 714]

Excellent points.

My understanding from the creator is that you buy a good fitting helmet and us this as added protection for impact? Wondering with the material used and the gel pads if it could slow rotational impact by absorbing?

Also spoke to the Warrior rep today. I find it funny for a company that has the "Safest Helmet" that they were not contacted (according to Warrior) at all about the study and how they managed to get the highest rated helmet? Only the other companies that poorly rated helmets were talked to?

Contacted by journalists, you mean? That's a good point. My guess would be it's because a headline about the safest helmet (according to a study, not to forget that that qualification would likely be left out) isn't as click-baity as one about how many concussions you're prone to get wearing helmets from the most prominent manufacturers.

[chippa13 1844]

In this day and age, I think we are using the term "journalists" rather loosely.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Contacted by journalists, you mean? That's a good point. My guess would be it's because a headline about the safest helmet (according to a study, not to forget that that qualification would likely be left out) isn't as click-baity as one about how many concussions you're prone to get wearing helmets from the most prominent manufacturers.

Excellent point!

[Boostinmister2 16]

I wished they tested the Bauer IMS 5.0

I wonder if it would have received a 2 star rating. It looks like a RE-AKT 100 but with the same type of dual density foams as the 2100/5100 helmets.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I wished they tested the Bauer IMS 5.0

I wonder if it would have received a 2 star rating. It looks like a RE-AKT 100 but with the same type of dual density foams as the 2100/5100 helmets.

Most likely would have come out about the same then I would think?

[CB1 8]

Does anyone know if Virginia Tech will be testing new helmets that are coming out or was this a one time deal?

With some new helmets coming out (Warrior Krown PX3, CCM Fitlite, etc), wondering if some manufactures are sending them helmets to test to see how they fair?

[Chadd 916]

Does anyone know if Virginia Tech will be testing new helmets that are coming out or was this a one time deal?

With some new helmets coming out (Warrior Krown PX3, CCM Fitlite, etc), wondering if some manufactures are sending them helmets to test to see how they fair?

Given the response from manufacturers, I can't see them sending helmets to VA Tech. Unless, of course, they think they can get 5 stars.

[flip12 714]

From the VA Tech lab's track record of football helmet ratings, it sounds as though it's likely to be ongoing. I haven't read their papers all the way through, but there should be a portion of the discussion at the end of the paper where they outline their plans.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I am curious how a helmet will stop or reduce rotational impact. The largest portion of hockey concussions.

[Chadd 916]

I am curious how a helmet will stop or reduce rotational impact. The largest portion of hockey concussions.

Well, we know that VN works better than EPP for rotational impacts but most manufacturers use EPP in their high end helmets anyway. Hockey helmet design has changed very little in the last couple decades, it's about time that things finally start moving forward.

We also know that you have an axe to grind with VA Tech, due to your relationship with CSA.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well, we know that VN works better than EPP for rotational impacts but most manufacturers use EPP in their high end helmets anyway. Hockey helmet design has changed very little in the last couple decades, it's about time that things finally start moving forward.

We also know that you have an axe to grind with VA Tech, due to your relationship with CSA.

Neither CSA nor VA or any of the helmet manufacturers can answer the question so this question has zero to do with it. Its a fact that no helmet will ever reduce rotational impact. I think its time all of the people mentioned print that out so everyone can see it and not say they are working on something when they clearly cant prevent it.

As for an ax to grind ....simply stating facts about how the testing was done and it is not really related to how hockey is played according to all the ones that have looked at the research that are in the hockey industry. If it be helmet makers CSA HECC Hockey USA. So ax to grind NO.....forwarding creditable information from people in the know with far more medical information than myself YES.

While Duma has the right idea working with HECC CSA and other people like HOCKEY USA and HOCKEY CANADA I think would have made his testing pass the "smell test" ......

[Law Goalie 147]

While you may never be able to prevent diffuse axonal injury with a helmet, there are certainly ways to make helmets that help to dissipate shearing impacts. The problem is that they invariably create either disposable or mechanically complex helmets, and always very expensive ones, and those aren't things most hockey players are willing to accept.

Even among goalies, who carry a minuscule risk of concussion (properly speaking) but an enormous risk of repeated sub-clinical trauma (which we're barely beginning to understand), very, very few goalies are willing to spend money to protect their brains.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

While you may never be able to prevent diffuse axonal injury with a helmet, there are certainly ways to make helmets that help to dissipate shearing impacts. The problem is that they invariably create either disposable or mechanically complex helmets, and always very expensive ones, and those aren't things most hockey players are willing to accept.

Even among goalies, who carry a minuscule risk of concussion (properly speaking) but an enormous risk of repeated sub-clinical trauma (which we're barely beginning to understand), very, very few goalies are willing to spend money to protect their brains.

Excellent point.

[jimmy 194]

While you may never be able to prevent diffuse axonal injury with a helmet, there are certainly ways to make helmets that help to dissipate shearing impacts. The problem is that they invariably create either disposable or mechanically complex helmets, and always very expensive ones, and those aren't things most hockey players are willing to accept.

Even among goalies, who carry a minuscule risk of concussion (properly speaking) but an enormous risk of repeated sub-clinical trauma (which we're barely beginning to understand), very, very few goalies are willing to spend money to protect their brains.

I got a severe concussion and my head never hit anything. The shear whiplash from being run into was enough, mask never came into play.

[flip12 714]

I am curious how a helmet will stop or reduce rotational impact. The largest portion of hockey concussions.

Neither CSA nor VA or any of the helmet manufacturers can answer the question so this question has zero to do with it. Its a fact that no helmet will ever reduce rotational impact. I think its time all of the people mentioned print that out so everyone can see it and not say they are working on something when they clearly cant prevent it.

Yes, it would be nice if this were elaborated somewhere. As it is, Va Tech's Hockey STAR scored the helmets on rotational and linear impact, so if our helmets are ever to get better at handling rotational impact it will be through such testing and books on the table methods. If you just search "rotat" in the original article, you'll see how they incorporated rotational forces into this experiment. They didn't do it for Football STAR, and they only did it for Hockey STAR (according to their own account of it) because of constructive criticism they received on their Football STAR studies.

Does anyone know if Virginia Tech will be testing new helmets that are coming out or was this a one time deal?

With some new helmets coming out (Warrior Krown PX3, CCM Fitlite, etc), wondering if some manufactures are sending them helmets to test to see how they fair?

According to their own 10 Year Plan, it's going to be ongoing.

[SlaterC42 51]

I got a severe concussion and my head never hit anything. The shear whiplash from being run into was enough, mask never came into play.

Same thing happened to me a few years ago from a car accident, my head didn't hit a thing but I was out of it for months.

[jimmy 194]

Same thing happened to me a few years ago from a car accident, my head didn't hit a thing but I was out of it for months.

My hit felt like a car accident! I still have symptoms, even though it was 3 yrs ago.

[Chadd 916]

Yes, it would be nice if this were elaborated somewhere. As it is, Va Tech's Hockey STAR scored the helmets on rotational and linear impact, so if our helmets are ever to get better at handling rotational impact it will be through such testing and books on the table methods. If you just search "rotat" in the original article, you'll see how they incorporated rotational forces into this experiment. They didn't do it for Football STAR, and they only did it for Hockey STAR (according to their own account of it) because of constructive criticism they received on their Football STAR studies.

They are testing, comparing and making the results available to the public. It's far better and more transparent than what we have seen from HECC and CSA.

While you may never be able to prevent diffuse axonal injury with a helmet, there are certainly ways to make helmets that help to dissipate shearing impacts. The problem is that they invariably create either disposable or mechanically complex helmets, and always very expensive ones, and those aren't things most hockey players are willing to accept.

Even among goalies, who carry a minuscule risk of concussion (properly speaking) but an enormous risk of repeated sub-clinical trauma (which we're barely beginning to understand), very, very few goalies are willing to spend money to protect their brains.

Price is a huge issue, as are the optics of the helmet. I know Easton was concerned about them both with the helmet they were working on based on the Reidell football helmet.

Neither CSA nor VA or any of the helmet manufacturers can answer the question so this question has zero to do with it. Its a fact that no helmet will ever reduce rotational impact. I think its time all of the people mentioned print that out so everyone can see it and not say they are working on something when they clearly cant prevent it.

As for an ax to grind ....simply stating facts about how the testing was done and it is not really related to how hockey is played according to all the ones that have looked at the research that are in the hockey industry. If it be helmet makers CSA HECC Hockey USA. So ax to grind NO.....forwarding creditable information from people in the know with far more medical information than myself YES.

While Duma has the right idea working with HECC CSA and other people like HOCKEY USA and HOCKEY CANADA I think would have made his testing pass the "smell test" ......

Saying that no helmet with reduce rotational impact is a lie. As mentioned, VN scores better than EPP on rotational impact tests. However, I realize that doesn't mean that it will prevent a concussion, but it does reduce the rotational impact relative to the harder foam.

HECC, CSA, USAH and Hockey Canada all have business relationships that come into play with this discussion and money always seems to trump safety when that is the case. There has been very little, if any, advancement in the safety of hockey helmets in the last two or three decades. I don't see how changing the environment could be any worse than the status quo.

[goblue9280 33]

Given the response from manufacturers, I can't see them sending helmets to VA Tech. Unless, of course, they think they can get 5 stars.

For every helmet they test, VTech purchases them off the shelf. Eliminates any bias from receiving free gear.

[Medichef 7]

Hi guys! I have to confess that I didn't read completely through ALL these pages, but I came here after Googling "validity of Virginia Tech hockey helmet testing" because I had the same concerns as you. As a father of 2 GIRLS moving into Peewee and Bantam travel this coming season I am concerned about their gear. But that doesn't mean I haven't considered all the factors involved. After one weekend where 2 of their teammates suffered concussions in separate incidents, I decided it was time to upgrade their helmets since they're showing a definite devotion to the game and that they were still wearing the $49 Bauer 4500 entry level buckets. I went to buy an IMS, but the fit was very loose because of the way they ponytail their hair and the helmet only provides a ratcheting headband for fit. The Re-Akt with it's occipital lock fit like a glove. That was the ticket for us. But as a paramedic, I know that no matter what the shell is made of and what kind of cushioning is inside, that MAY NOT affect the energy translated to INSIDE their skulls. The old "try to protect an egg from breaking" experiment comes to mind, but that only deals with the shell breaking (skull fracture). The brain itself can suffer coup contrecoup ("shaken baby syndrome") (bruising/injury from impacting the skull inside after being bounced around). And silly things like amount of hydration play large factors into the outcome of an impact. Personally, not to sound glib, I believe one way to lessen the rotation contribution to the incident....make the shell slippery.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Hi guys! I have to confess that I didn't read completely through ALL these pages, but I came here after Googling "validity of Virginia Tech hockey helmet testing" because I had the same concerns as you. As a father of 2 GIRLS moving into Peewee and Bantam travel this coming season I am concerned about their gear. But that doesn't mean I haven't considered all the factors involved. After one weekend where 2 of their teammates suffered concussions in separate incidents, I decided it was time to upgrade their helmets since they're showing a definite devotion to the game and that they were still wearing the $49 Bauer 4500 entry level buckets. I went to buy an IMS, but the fit was very loose because of the way they ponytail their hair and the helmet only provides a ratcheting headband for fit. The Re-Akt with it's occipital lock fit like a glove. That was the ticket for us. But as a paramedic, I know that no matter what the shell is made of and what kind of cushioning is inside, that MAY NOT affect the energy translated to INSIDE their skulls. The old "try to protect an egg from breaking" experiment comes to mind, but that only deals with the shell breaking (skull fracture). The brain itself can suffer coup contrecoup ("shaken baby syndrome") (bruising/injury from impacting the skull inside after being bounced around). And silly things like amount of hydration play large factors into the outcome of an impact. Personally, not to sound glib, I believe one way to lessen the rotation contribution to the incident....make the shell slippery.

internally or externally??

And in regards to ponytails. Have them braid it or have the elastic 1 inch to 2 inches below the base of the helmet it will help with the fit better.

[Medichef 7]

Thanks for the response! I'd say externally. The Re-Akt's already have the separate suspension and padding, so that they can move slightly from each other. But my thought is if the exterior of the shell were more slippery there would be less friction to cause the head to rotate by diverting it. As for the ponytails: they do braid low (outside the helmet) and tie at the end. But the Bauer IMS has only a headband to size the helmet and it was very loose on their heads because it was tightening on the mass of hair on the rear. Even with everything fitted correctly I could grab the cage and they were able to move their heads significantly. With the Re-Akt Occipital lock (pad ratchets up under the bone at the base of your skull) there is very little movement.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Thanks for the response! I'd say externally. The Re-Akt's already have the separate suspension and padding, so that they can move slightly from each other. But my thought is if the exterior of the shell were more slippery there would be less friction to cause the head to rotate by diverting it. As for the ponytails: they do braid low (outside the helmet) and tie at the end. But the Bauer IMS has only a headband to size the helmet and it was very loose on their heads because it was tightening on the mass of hair on the rear. Even with everything fitted correctly I could grab the cage and they were able to move their heads significantly. With the Re-Akt Occipital lock (pad ratchets up under the bone at the base of your skull) there is very little movement.

Oh I am well versed in high performance women's hockey and how picky they can be...LOL That is an interesting idea. I wonder if that would change testing parameters? And what if the jerseys were more sleek as well as it usually an elbow coming up or a shoulder hitting....Hummmmm interesting concept.

[flip12 714]

If you turn everything into a slip-n-slide, you could potentially increase the incidence of injury from strange deflections of said elbows off a shoulder directly into the boards or whatever.

[Medichef 7]

I'm probably going to suggest a simple million dollar idea here that actually might be very simple to implement: you know how travel teams have shells for the hockey pants? You know, a second pair of thin pants made out of the same material as warm ups without the lining to be worn over the regular hockey pants, so the team is uniform without having everyone buying new pants? How about shells made out of something like Lycra to fit over the helmet? Could be personalized for the teams, inexpensive to produce, but more importantly....provides that slippery surface to the helmet that I was previously talking about to ANY helmet! It would lessen the rotational contribution to the concussion potential. Kinda like applying a layer of grease to the helmet! If one of you takes this idea to fruition, I would appreciate a mention!.....and maybe 25% !!!