Expanding the NHL?

[tpedersen3118 58]

I have read a couple of articles recently talking about possibly adding teams (2?) to the NHL. Just wondering people's thoughts on the topic and if some of the cities mentioned (Seattle, Milwaukee) would be good for the league. I would love for Milwaukee to become an NHL city. If I remember correctly, Craig Leipold wanted to put a team in WI but couldn't at the time so he bought the Wild.

[Stewie 721]

Personally, I am not huge on expansion because it waters down the product. what I had been hoping would happen is that they would take two of the more struggling attendance franchises, Florida and Arizona, and move them both to western cities, balancing out the league (15 in each conference). Vegas, Seattle, and even Milwaukee could fit into this model, but I don't know how well a hockey franchise in Milwaukee would work out, given that the area around there is probably already highly Hawks fans, and the admirals draw kinda middle of the pack/lower numbers to their games despite having a solid record.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

I have read a couple of articles recently talking about possibly adding teams (2?) to the NHL. Just wondering people's thoughts on the topic and if some of the cities mentioned (Seattle, Milwaukee) would be good for the league. I would love for Milwaukee to become an NHL city. If I remember correctly, Craig Leipold wanted to put a team in WI but couldn't at the time so he bought the Wild.

Milwaukee would be a disastrous flop of an NHL city. Too any teams as it is, no arena, not enough people to fill seats, the list goes on and on.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I don't think I've ever heard Milwaukee come up in any expansion/relocation talks I've seen or heard before. Kind of random...

Vegas and Seattle seem like the big ones. Seattle could handle it I think, Vegas could potentially but it would depend on a lot of factors you don't typically have to consider in other hockey cities. I'd love to see both FLA and PHX move to places that actually have fans, but thats a whole other story.

Quebec City is also mentioned a lot and I'd love to see it happen, but who knows.

[SirJW 207]

Hamilton is still in the mix as well as a 2nd team in Toronto.

[Stewie 721]

yeah this is the first I have heard Milwaukee discussed. maybe its his local media, or I missed out, but everything I have heard thusfar has Vegas, Seattle, QC, Hamilton, and T2, all 5 of which would make more sense than Milwaukee, outside of any re-alignment goals.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/01/27/nhl-expansion-seattle-milwaukee-rangers-islanders-rivalry

Talk of a new arena and this article caused some talk recently, but even living here, I hope we don't see an NHL team here anytime soon.

[Stewie 721]

interesting note there about the ads drawing 9k when they were and IHL team. I guess I didn't realize the AHL teams in Hamilton and Toronto drew as low as they did, at least this season, so perhaps its not a good measuring tool, but I still trust other markets over Milwaukee. Maybe they make a solid 6th seed?

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

That number is inflated by 7-8 postgame concerts per year that cause 15-18k "attendances."

[Chadd 916]

With the significant reduction in value of the Canadian dollar recently, I would not expect to see additional Canadian markets considered at this time.

Hamilton is still in the mix as well as a 2nd team in Toronto.

A team in Hamilton would mean the end of the Buffalo Sabres, a large portion of their fan base lives across the border. That is why I don't ever expect to see a team in Hamilton. Toronto could easily support a second team.

[chippa13 1844]

Agreed on Canada due to the exchange rate. The exchange rate is part of what killed the last iterations of NHL teams in Winnipeg and Quebec City. As long as Canadian teams are taking in Canadian dollars and paying out US dollars there will always be a huge risk for the smaller Canadian markets.

[Chadd 916]

Agreed on Canada due to the exchange rate. The exchange rate is part of what killed the last iterations of NHL teams in Winnipeg and Quebec City. As long as Canadian teams are taking in Canadian dollars and paying out US dollars there will always be a huge risk for the smaller Canadian markets.

To expound on that, check this link:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-richest-teams-forbes-toronto-maple-leafs-montreal-canadiens-new-york-rangers-1-billion/

And now realize that the Canadian dollar is down around 20% when compared to the US dollar. After you remove 20% of the revenue and subtract that from the operating income, you get a better picture of what that does to the Canadian teams. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal are still fine. Edmonton and Ottawa basically break even, Calgary is just below that and Winnipeg loses $15M. Obviously things have changed in the last year or so, but that should give some idea of what that really means to the teams.

[ibeck 38]

Quebec City is also mentioned a lot and I'd love to see it happen, but who knows.

New arena is being built!

[Trippingblue 1]

Well, we certainly have some good indicators here in Vegas. Word has it the Maloofs and Bill Foley are sending out season ticket packages to residents. The new 20,000 seat arena that MGM is building behind the New York-New York with attached mega shopping complex (naturally, in these mixed-use-arena-retail-that's happening currently) is going to go a long way into convincing the Board to grant the Maloofs a franchise. I don't know if it will come to anything, since there are so many factors working against-

1. Locals' work schedules. Most residents are employees of casinos, and thus operate on swing and graveyard shifts. This makes it hard to build a season ticket holder base, and Las Vegas would need about 7,000-8,000 season ticket holders to make this work. The ECHL was cool with a few midnight games each season for the now-defunct Wranglers to cater to the unique locals' demographic.
2. Home-town loyalty. I can count on two hands the number of people I know who were born and raised in Las Vegas. It's home to the state's largest employer and is inhabited mostly by people from somewhere else. This means it would be difficult to get fans to realy build loyalty, especially when many won't be convinced to surrender their hometown allegiances.
3. The arena is in a difficult location for locals. Frank Sinatra Drive is 2 lanes in either direction leading into the arena, sandwiched against the I-15 freeway and The Strip. Locals aren't going to want to venture towards the Strip on their days off.

[Chadd 916]

Well, we certainly have some good indicators here in Vegas. Word has it the Maloofs and Bill Foley are sending out season ticket packages to residents. The new 20,000 seat arena that MGM is building behind the New York-New York with attached mega shopping complex (naturally, in these mixed-use-arena-retail-that's happening currently) is going to go a long way into convincing the Board to grant the Maloofs a franchise. I don't know if it will come to anything, since there are so many factors working against-

1. Locals' work schedules. Most residents are employees of casinos, and thus operate on swing and graveyard shifts. This makes it hard to build a season ticket holder base, and Las Vegas would need about 7,000-8,000 season ticket holders to make this work. The ECHL was cool with a few midnight games each season for the now-defunct Wranglers to cater to the unique locals' demographic.
2. Home-town loyalty. I can count on two hands the number of people I know who were born and raised in Las Vegas. It's home to the state's largest employer and is inhabited mostly by people from somewhere else. This means it would be difficult to get fans to realy build loyalty, especially when many won't be convinced to surrender their hometown allegiances.
3. The arena is in a difficult location for locals. Frank Sinatra Drive is 2 lanes in either direction leading into the arena, sandwiched against the I-15 freeway and The Strip. Locals aren't going to want to venture towards the Strip on their days off.

I've said for years that Vegas could be a raging success or a dismal failure. The casino schedule is a huge issue, but there is a ton of money from the casinos to pay for suites and tickets. It also won't be hard to sell tickets (and vacation packages) to fans in other cities either. It's a huge gamble, if you will pardon the pun.

[Stewie 721]

I too could see Vegas going either way. I think its a hard sell if the team does poorly, there is just so much other entertainment in the area. Here hockey is the most expensive ticket in town however, there it might be the cheapest lol.

[Chadd 916]

I too could see Vegas going either way. I think its a hard sell if the team does poorly, there is just so much other entertainment in the area. Here hockey is the most expensive ticket in town however, there it might be the cheapest lol.

with all of the free perks and half price ticket shops on the strip, I don't think it will be the cheapest. With team owners in the hotel/casino/resort business, the team could lose money and still be a huge success.

[Stewie 721]

with all of the free perks and half price ticket shops on the strip, I don't think it will be the cheapest. With team owners in the hotel/casino/resort business, the team could lose money and still be a huge success.

well, I just shelled out 340 bucks for Le Reve tix and a buffet pass (x2), 215 on penn and teller, so maybe I am looking in the wrong places =)

[Chadd 916]

well, I just shelled out 340 bucks for Le Reve tix and a buffet pass (x2), 215 on penn and teller, so maybe I am looking in the wrong places =)

I loved the P&T show when I saw it a couple years ago and I can't say enough good things about "Love" at the Mirage. I used to see discounts pretty regularly on Vegas.com for select dates.

[Trippingblue 1]

I work at "O" so if anyone visits and get tickets to my show I'll give you the full backstage tour.

[stick9 891]

Expansion was once again mentioned in the aftermath of last night NO vote in Glendale. The only thing more ridiculous than expansion is the Coyotes saga. Moving struggling teams to better markets is the smart play.

[chippa13 1844]

It isn't that easy to find a better market right now. Today's exchange rate is 1.23 CDN = 1 USD. Remember, the poor exchange rate is why Winnipeg and Quebec lost the original Jets and Nordiques.

[Stewie 721]

there are better US cities than Phoenix for a franchise. Move one there. Or hell, a second Toronto team, even if they suck people will still show up.

[stick9 891]

Poor exchange rate or not, it's hard to look past Quebecs brand new "hockey specific" building.

http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?Quebec%2bCity's%2bnew%2b%2522hockey-specific%2522%2barena%2bdesign%2bsounds%2bawesome%2band%2bwill%2bbe%2bready%2bto%2bgo%2bfor%2bSeptember%2b2015&id=543524

[Chadd 916]

Poor exchange rate or not, it's hard to look past Quebecs brand new "hockey specific" building.

http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?Quebec%2bCity's%2bnew%2b%2522hockey-specific%2522%2barena%2bdesign%2bsounds%2bawesome%2band%2bwill%2bbe%2bready%2bto%2bgo%2bfor%2bSeptember%2b2015&id=543524

Let's see where Winnipeg ends up financially at the end of the year before we end up moving more franchises to questionable economic areas. The strength of the US dollar is a big reason why the cap isn't going to go up much, if at all, this year. When the Canadian dollar was equal it was a huge boost to the league revenues. With a 20% hit, relative to the US dollar, there may very well be a couple Canadian teams losing money this year.

there are better US cities than Phoenix for a franchise. Move one there. Or hell, a second Toronto team, even if they suck people will still show up.

If they add a team in the east, or relocate there, then they have to move Detroit back to the west again and I'm sick of hearing them complain.