Skate Flex - What, How, Why?

[Malarowski 12]

Hey guys, coming more and more across skate flex in threads, so I was wondering what is that all about? I understand you need some wiggle to push forward, but how do I determine how much flex I have in the skate, how important is it, and how do I know mine is right?

 

I have some VH Footwear skates, but they are stiff, really stiff. They don't seem to bother me much and I feel fine skating, but am I perhaps missing out on something if they were softer? Is it just a preference thing? Bit confused about how much of an issue it could be and whether I should perhaps look into tying my skates differently or use lace extenders to get some improvement perhaps?

[Ps12 11]

I thought vh were stiff at first.  I also tied them extremely tight.  I now loosely tie my skates.  What I'll do is tie them so I can flex my ankles forward. If I can't I loosen them.  

 

The wrap should be good enough that you really don't need to tie them tightly. 

[GloriousLeader 31]

I think Graf is the only manufacturer marking Flexes on on their skates?

 

Generally, stiffness in boot is preferred as 1) it helps maximize the energy transfer from legs to the ice and 2) for protection. But that also shouldn't mean cementing your boots to your feet and ankle either. Many power skating coaches advocate for allowing flexibility in ankles for mobility and agility (Laura Stamm being one). Like PS12 said above, keep the stiff boot but loosen up on the lacing to give some flexibility. Typically you'd want your lacing most tight at the mid foot and then loosen up as you go up the ankle. Same reason why you may see many pro skaters leave the top eyelet undone.

[Malarowski 12]

How far are we flexing here? 1-2" or more than that? Thanks 

[SolarWind 23]

To me there is 2 aspects to it: forward flex which is required for full stride and ability to achieve proper knee bend. Not only the most effective knee angle is 90 degrees ur knee cup should be over your toes so these are your queues - do your skates allow you to do that or not? How far you'd need to flex really depends on your own biomechanics, generally the taller you are the bigger the levers, making it both easier and reducing the range a bit.

lateral stiffness is another component - again many arguments there (ie rolling ankles can actually create better edges) but for me personally I want it as stiff as possible for lateral support otherwise in hard crossovers (especially explosive running ones) the boot simply gives, bottoms out and causes spills.

with all that said my custom NXGs are +1 stiffness from retail, so combined with x-stiff tongue inserts I always preferred staking with the top eyelet undone. ever since One95s actually - these were tanks!

coincidentally just for the fun of it 2 days ago I tried staking laced all the way up. It definitely made forward flex harder and required some adjustment as my agility and comfort both dropped. But after 15-20 mins I felt better and my lateral agility has increased quite a bit due to the boot being much more supportive laterally! Brings that "on rails" feeling! 

There are still elite skaters who tape their ankles - even Ovie has been seen doing it. So to each his own, really depends on your skating style, skill level, strength etc etc.

My best advice is to experiment, and not jump into quick conclusions just coz you see so and so do it a certain way.

[flip12 717]

1 hour ago, SolarWind said:

 

There are still elite skaters who tape their ankles - even Ovie has been seen doing it. So to each his own, really depends on your skating style, skill level, strength etc etc.

 

That's interesting. Do you know where one can see footage of him with his ankles taped?

 

Also, a lot of elite skaters that do tape allow for flex in other ways. One example is Pavel Bure, whose skate support style was often miscopied. He actually left the middle of his boot laced with essentially to no tension at all, to allow massive forward flex. Many of the kids who copied him growing up and used that taping technique also laced the boot incredibly tight, such as Robbie Earl and Viktor Stalberg, and lost a lot of the foot and ankle mobility that was essential to Bure's explosiveness and agility. Both of those guys are incredibly strong skaters as well, just a bit limited in their range of motion compared to the Russian Rocket.

[SolarWind 23]

I could not find anything recent with Ovi but if you google Dan Boyle, Dan Girardi, Joe Thornton skate - they all tape ankles

looks like a Lot of players do it actually...

[flip12 717]

I've been interested in the old-school ankle taping, which is why I was curious about Ovi. I'm especially interested in the skating mechanics of the great Soviets, Bure, Fedorov, and Mogilny. Yet, what gets missed about them is they all could skate just fine without tape and they took significant efforts to avoid restricting their ankles, quite different than guys like Thornton. Mogilny competed without it quite a bit, and Fedorov did somewhat and Bure I've only ever seen without tape in practice footage. Still, it suggests some factor they liked about it...but this is quite tangential to the OP.

 

I'm really curious about Malarowski's original question as well, as I'm still much more familiar with classic 90's and early 2000's skates. The whole skate springiness thing is relatively new to me and I'm hoping it can be better clarified in the coming years. For instance, now there seems to be much more awareness of the importance of using a stick one can properly flex and that using too stiff of a shaft is ridiculous. On the other hand, a lot of the wisdom on skates seems to say that stiffest is best. I'm wondering if that's going to change.

[SolarWind 23]

Fedorov only taped his ankle guard to this ankle but left the top eyelet undone in modern skates (one90) so he was definitely different from the guys like Thornton who clearly seeks more ankle support...

another prove of "different strokes for different folks" :)

[flip12 717]

12 hours ago, SolarWind said:

Fedorov only taped his ankle guard to this ankle but left the top eyelet undone in modern skates (one90) so he was definitely different from the guys like Thornton who clearly seeks more ankle support...

another prove of "different strokes for different folks" :)

 

Actually, I think Fedorov skipped the top eyelet once Vapor 8's came on the scene and changed teams' equipment buying patterns, where skates were replaced as soon as they went "soft." Instead of breaking boots in and wearing them out, they were meant to be good to go off the shelf and replaced bi-weekly or monthly. The reason I'm thinking that is, starting with his walking away from Nike Fedorov went an eyelet down on everything from Graf 703's (though he may have requested different stiffness than retail) to Vapor APX's, yet, he eventually even laced the APX all they way up, though not very tight at the top, mind you. In the KHL, I don't think they're getting their skates replaced by the team all the time: another case in point is Alexander Radulov, who went from always skipping the top eyelet in APX's (no tape, that's not his style) to lacing all the way up.

 

What's interesting is Fedorov went tapeless for a lot of 1993, but then never went back to it again consistently. There were games here and there where he went without, but the only ones I can recall seeing after '93 were in his initial Nikes.

[Zorlac 22]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:13 PM, Malarowski said:

Hey guys, coming more and more across skate flex in threads, so I was wondering what is that all about? I understand you need some wiggle to push forward, but how do I determine how much flex I have in the skate, how important is it, and how do I know mine is right?

 

I have some VH Footwear skates, but they are stiff, really stiff. They don't seem to bother me much and I feel fine skating, but am I perhaps missing out on something if they were softer? Is it just a preference thing? Bit confused about how much of an issue it could be and whether I should perhaps look into tying my skates differently or use lace extenders to get some improvement perhaps?

 

I believe it is personal preference.  I prefer a stiff skate, but having a bit softer of a boot improves mobility... for me anyway.  I'm not sure that tying skates tighter, or ankle pads, or other gimmicks can improve on a softer skate.  The quarter package stiffness is pretty much set.

[Chadd 916]

I think Mission had it right a long time ago with the S series. You need stiffness below the ankle for power but having it all the way to the top of the boot is counterproductive for the vast majority of players. Especially recreational players. 

[kovalchuk71 212]

9 hours ago, Chadd said:

I think Mission had it right a long time ago with the S series. You need stiffness below the ankle for power but having it all the way to the top of the boot is counterproductive for the vast majority of players. Especially recreational players. 

I'm still amazed that this tech hasn't been reincarnated.

[flip12 717]

I'd love to have a contemporary SuppleFit skate...if they could do it with wrap-around quarters to get the integrated outsole trend incorporated into it, that would be incredible :)