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hockeydad3

Skate Sizing

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Hello,

after watching my kids for more than five years skating in practice and games i decided to learn skating.

I´m 49 years, 170 cm and 81 kg shoe size about US8/EU41. I have never been on skates or inliner etc. I started on christmas and I´m on ice about 4-5 times a week since then. I can skate forward and make soft turns and soft stops without falling ;). Usually i skate about 16 rounds on a 400m course. My skates are Graf Supra GV103T-V2 Entry level with T-Blade System. I started with the long profile runners 5/8 and switched to the medium Profile 5/8 one week ago. My problem is that i dont´t get a snug feeling of the boot like my feet are not fixed in the boot, to loose in the forefoot and on the ankle and too tight on the arch with a hell of arch-pain when tying tight. I never got any blisters or bruise and my heel lock feels tight with thin socks and i can´t  move a pencil between my ankles and the boot . I tryed different insoles but this did not help because the skates felt very spongy or have been out of Balance. Maybe the skates are half a size too big because after some breaking in i can put a pencil behind my heel when my toes brush the front of the skate with open laces. Now my questions:

Do i have the wrong skates?

Are my skates to big?

Do they still need mor time for breaking in because they feel very stiff?

Do i have to get more experience with skating because my feeling of beeing unstable in the skates ist typical for beginners?

Or what else can i do to get a good snug feeling of the skate for me to trust my skates and stop thinking about my skates while skating?

Thank you for your answers and tips.

Martin

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What size skates are you wearing?

Here's a video that shows you how to size yourself at home. And here are the sizing charts that go along with the video

http://www.hockeytutorial.com/uncategorized/ice-hockey-skate-sizing-chart-width-and-length/

 

If the skate sizing is correct, you can try things like Bunga pads and powerfoot inserts to help reduce the negative space in your skate so things feel more snug. There are also alternative lacing methods that might help you get a snug feel without having to over tighten your skates.

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My skates are size 7 but have a print on the inside with 7W.

I was skating this afternoon after i made some heat molding with a hairdryer and partial lacing on the forefoot and the ankle. The boot feels a little tighter on the forefoot and pretty well on the ankle after this procedure. But there is still too much space on the forefoot. All the time i had to concentrate to keep the right position of the foot inside the skate. It´s difficult to control the skate when i´m stumbling a bit. Is this ususal for a beginner or do i need smaller skates ?

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After you put your skates on and kick your heel into the back of the skate, your toes should just be brushing the toe of the skate. Is this the case? From the way you describe things, to me it seems like your skates could be too large, but I can't size you over the internet.

I'd suggest you look at the video I posted above and size yourself up. It's basically tracing your feet on a sheet of paper, measuring the trace, and looking up the results in a chart. It's not perfect, but it will give you some solid facts to work with and will definitely get you into the ballpark. If the place where you got your skates sized you by just taking your shoe size and subtracting 1, then things might not be right. Shoe size isn't always a good measurement of what skate size you should be wearing. For example, I wear size 8 shoes. I know they're slightly too big for me, but they're comfortable. I can easily fit 7.5 or even a 7 but I find them snug. My skate size is 4.5. 

This is a bit of an extreme example of discrepancy, but its an example of the size difference you can have between shoes and skate. 

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9 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

All the time i had to concentrate to keep the right position of the foot inside the skate. It´s difficult to control the skate when i´m stumbling a bit. Is this ususal for a beginner or do i need smaller skates ?

This is not usual, if you are having to concentrate on where your foot is in the boot then it is most likely too large for you in width / length or both. If you have access to a micrometer you can check the width easy enough, it's not exact but close enough for a good guide. Measure across your foot at various places then measure the boot in the same areas, deduct the boot material width x 2 and this gives you what your foot is sitting in. 7W stands for size 7 wide, if you have a narrow to medium forefoot then this skate isn't the best for you, unfortunately I have no idea of how that graf skate is built so can't tell you what shape foot it was designed for.

And for the length of your feet, here is a ruler against a brannock. This has worked well for me as a graf skate size guide when I deduct a couple of mm from the measurement - eg if your feet are 25cm's long then you would be a size 6.5. BUT a lot of this depends on your heel shape and how it sits in the pocket, wide heel in a narrow boot generally means you need more length than a narrow heel in a wide boot.

photo.jpg

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11 hours ago, puckpilot said:

After you put your skates on and kick your heel into the back of the skate, your toes should just be brushing the toe of the skate. Is this the case? From the way you describe things, to me it seems like your skates could be too large, but I can't size you over the internet.

I'd suggest you look at the video I posted above and size yourself up. It's basically tracing your feet on a sheet of paper, measuring the trace, and looking up the results in a chart. It's not perfect, but it will give you some solid facts to work with and will definitely get you into the ballpark. If the place where you got your skates sized you by just taking your shoe size and subtracting 1, then things might not be right. Shoe size isn't always a good measurement of what skate size you should be wearing. For example, I wear size 8 shoes. I know they're slightly too big for me, but they're comfortable. I can easily fit 7.5 or even a 7 but I find them snug. My skate size is 4.5. 

This is a bit of an extreme example of discrepancy, but its an example of the size difference you can have between shoes and skate. 

I second that you look at the video and give it a try.  As a newbie myself I constantly am wondering if I have the right skate for me and after watching this video I found out that I am fitted about as good as I possibly could get for the time being.  I expect that as I get better than I'll figure out what, if any, changes I might make in my next skates but for now, I'm in a great spot.

FWIW, my foot measured 11.5" in length, 4.3" in width, and I could see just by looking at the tracing that I have a more "tapered" foot shape.  Doing the math and evaluating what model is made for my foot, it would point me in the direction of the Bauer Vapor line (or CCM Jetspeeds), in a normal width, size 10.  Even thought I didn't see this video until after I made a skate purchase, it showed me that my Bauer X700's, size 10D, were actually a perfect fit (thanks to a skate fitter who really took his time explaining the differences to me and having me try a lot of different skates on).  In the end I still needed to have the boot punched out for my accessory navicular but the sizing and the shape of the boot seem to be perfect.

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On 05/02/2017 at 0:22 PM, Kgbeast said:

I always post link to this video. I find it to be a very good guide

 

I think there's good and bad in that video. It does a good job talking about depth and showing the pencil test. Heel size and width are also mentioned and getting someone to walk around to test heel lift is good. I wish that CCM machine was still readily available for use as I do think that was a good idea.

Using the insole to determine length, suggesting you want a finger length of room before the toes and mentioning room for growth without qualifying that that's specifically for growing kids (although if one thinks about it, they should realize it's only for kids) is questionable. Sometimes the same insoles are used for multiple sizes and in my experience a skate that fits me well with my toes brushing the cap has either no room or only a few mm at the end of the footbed - any skate that would have a finger width of room at the end of the footbed would likely be too long for an adult (it could work for a growing kid and perhaps that's what they meant).  

Also, having a customer walk around on the skates after they were baked seems risky for most skates. I know they waited for them to cool a bit, but there are only a handful of skates where customers are advised to stand up after baking (I know KOR was one of them). With most skates you'd want to wait at least 8 hours and preferably 24 hours before standing in them after baking so that the glues have time to completely cool and set.

Edited by althoma1

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Thank you all for your hints.

Now i think tat my skates are too long for only some mm and too wide on the forefoot. I ordered a pair of Graf 5035 in 6.5 and hope that they will fit well. But now i know what i have to look for in detail. I ordered online because the LHS`S don`t have T-Blades. And i want T-Blades because we don`t have a good sharpening service around and i`m in divorce and my wife got the children and the blackstone X02.

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I hope the ordered skates are returnable.  You are playing an expensive game of trial and error.  Believe me, I did it too, and it is a hard game to win.  Like you, my son started playing, so I started getting into the sport.  Went to the local shop that sold lightly used equipment.  Picked up some skates based on my shoe size (mistake #1).  Tried for a few sessions, pain, discomfort, etc.  Not alot of fun.  Went back, tried on a few more, figured out I needed a smaller size!  Took those for a few sessions.  Instability, no control, pain, etc.  Returned them, got stuck with a credit we used for some mediocre sharpenings. 

Then I went to a few larger shops, took a few hours to basically try on anything they had even close to my size.  Different boot shapes, depths, widths, etc.  

That helped me narrow in on a decent fit.  Picked up some skates that were the right price and a close enough fit.  Worked with a good shop to optimize fit.

I should have stopped there.  But didn't.

I'm now 2 pairs past that "decent" fit.  And FINALLY think I have found the best balance between comfort and performance.  

But it has been a frustrating, expensive 3 year journey to get to this point.  I've learned a ton along the way, but I'm not sure I would suggest it for anyone else to follow that path.  It isn't alot of fun.   

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Of course they are returnable.

But i know the four LHS around my town (up to 50km). They have to sell whats imported to germany and whats on the shelves because they are small and don`t have the stuff on commission. Took a lot of experience over the last years with my three boys. They tell you that EE size is the normal size (almost all youth and junior skates and the cheaper ones for adults are imported in EE from a Company having the monopol for bauer, ccm and reebok). I ordered D size skates from sweden for my boys. The first skates for my boys fitted almost two years and i had to buy the same size again. They must have been way to big for them. You won´t get your skates profiled and you won`t get different ROH`s other than the "standard". Have to drive 50 km or wait 3-5 days for a standard sharpening. And so on....

So i have to do the try and error game.

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6 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Of course they are returnable.

But i know the four LHS around my town (up to 50km). They have to sell whats imported to germany and whats on the shelves because they are small and don`t have the stuff on commission. Took a lot of experience over the last years with my three boys. They tell you that EE size is the normal size (almost all youth and junior skates and the cheaper ones for adults are imported in EE from a Company having the monopol for bauer, ccm and reebok). I ordered D size skates from sweden for my boys. The first skates for my boys fitted almost two years and i had to buy the same size again. They must have been way to big for them. You won´t get your skates profiled and you won`t get different ROH`s other than the "standard". Have to drive 50 km or wait 3-5 days for a standard sharpening. And so on....

So i have to do the try and error game.

Wow!  That sounds like quite a challenge...  I think this would make it even more important for you to measure your feet per the instructions in the video so you can specify exactly what skate you want rather than rely on what skates they have on their shelves.  

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Yeah, ouch, sounds like a real struggle.  And I thought I had it bad because I have "weird" feet that are very different shape from the "standard".  I guess sometimes you have no alternative but to play the trial and error game.  It is not a fun process, so best of luck with it. 

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Yesterday my new skates arrived.

They are Graf MCI 5035 and are 6.5 D (swiss-made). Completly different Boot. At home they feel like they are too small touching my foot all around but the other ones did feel like they wood have the right size and turned out as too big after a little break in. During a short skate in the evening the new ones  did feel like too small and not comfortable but i didn`t have relevant pain or got blisters. The runners are 8mm shorter and they skate different than the Graf 103-V2 7.0W (china-made).

Have to bake and braek them in to find out if they are ok.

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19 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Yesterday my new skates arrived.

They are Graf MCI 5035 and are 6.5 D (swiss-made). Completly different Boot. At home they feel like they are too small touching my foot all around but the other ones did feel like they wood have the right size and turned out as too big after a little break in. During a short skate in the evening the new ones  did feel like too small and not comfortable but i didn`t have relevant pain or got blisters. The runners are 8mm shorter and they skate different than the Graf 103-V2 7.0W (china-made).

Have to bake and braek them in to find out if they are ok.

Nice.

A skate should feel like it is contoured to your foot.  You want as much boot to foot contact as you can get, without it being painful.  They should NOT feel like street shoes.  Your report of no pain is promising, even though you said they are "uncomfortable".  Blisters would be seen more if there was too much room to move and rub. 

Grafs are pretty mold-able when warm, pay attention to spots where your foot is not comfortable before you bake them.  Once baked and cooled, re-check pain/comfort in those spots.  Same for anywhere they seem too loose or not in good contact with your foot.  While they are warm, try to massage those areas to press them in so they mirror your foot shape.

I have a pair of those skates (Canadian made) at home, and I put them through alot to try to get them to fit me.  Ultimately, it didn't work out, but I can say they can be molded and molded and remolded and keep their cooled shape very well. 

 

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On 8.2.2017 at 7:02 PM, krisdrum said:

Nice.

A skate should feel like it is contoured to your foot.  You want as much boot to foot contact as you can get, without it being painful.  They should NOT feel like street shoes.  Your report of no pain is promising, even though you said they are "uncomfortable".  Blisters would be seen more if there was too much room to move and rub. 

Grafs are pretty mold-able when warm, pay attention to spots where your foot is not comfortable before you bake them.  Once baked and cooled, re-check pain/comfort in those spots.  Same for anywhere they seem too loose or not in good contact with your foot.  While they are warm, try to massage those areas to press them in so they mirror your foot shape.

I have a pair of those skates (Canadian made) at home, and I put them through alot to try to get them to fit me.  Ultimately, it didn't work out, but I can say they can be molded and molded and remolded and keep their cooled shape very well. 

 

Hi,

fourteen skating-  and two bakingsessions later the skates begin to feel quite perfect for me. I changed the insole against the ccm-high-arch which I`d by for my bigger skates and luckily they improved the fit a little. There is very little space between tying to loose or to tight and i get a better fit after skating a while an retying them. In the optimal situation i have a complete tight contact from the heel over the arch to the forefoot and to the end of the little toe, the same on the foot sole from the heel to the balls. The ankle feels a little too loose although there is no space between the boot and the ankle and my big toe from its base to the tip and the other three toes in the middle have no direct contact and room to move. When I tie them a little too loose all my toes at the tip and the heel have contact. Yesterday I didn’t have any pain in my feet skating 20 rounds on the 400m course.

Is the fit ok now, is the breaking in not finished yet or should I go for more contact on the big toes and the ankle with re-baking the skates?

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The fit sounds good to me as I also have recently been going through breaking in new skates. I had to drop down a 1/2 size because my foot kept sliding forward slightly which caused problems with heel lock. I had my first game in the skates yesterday after a few practices in them and it was quite a difference with my skating having a boot that fits correctly to your foot as much as possible. In my opinion as long as they aren't hindering your skating and they are comfortable and not causing you any pain anywhere than you are probably good to go. I wouldn't change anything because it might have unintended consequences and change the feel or fit on another area of the boot.  They should be pretty much broken in after baking twice and skating on them for 14 sessions.

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