Marsblade Ice Holder

[VegasHockey 1280]

and on go another pair....

 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

12 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Out of the 10 holders I have installed 9 of the players have gone back to their previous holder. Not a lot of positive feedback so far.... What other feedback are others seeing? 

Interested to know the feedback?

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Interested to know the feedback?

General feedback is that players felt much slower though more stable. Even after adjusting the blade profiling, pitch and ROH the players all felt too far back on their heels or that they were digging in too deep. What I noticed is the higher the level of player the more they disliked the Marsblade. The other feedback was that it felt like there was a delay in the holders and they were not as responsive. 

Maybe with a revised version if they cast them out of some material other than carbon composite they will lower the weight which might help resolve these complaints. 

[Larry54 243]

8 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

General feedback is that players felt much slower though more stable. Even after adjusting the blade profiling, pitch and ROH the players all felt too far back on their heels or that they were digging in too deep. What I noticed is the higher the level of player the more they disliked the Marsblade. The other feedback was that it felt like there was a delay in the holders and they were not as responsive. 

Maybe with a revised version if they cast them out of some material other than carbon composite they will lower the weight which might help resolve these complaints. 

I had a feeling that would be the case as I wrote about a year ago.

 

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

...and merged.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

19 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

General feedback is that players felt much slower though more stable. Even after adjusting the blade profiling, pitch and ROH the players all felt too far back on their heels or that they were digging in too deep. What I noticed is the higher the level of player the more they disliked the Marsblade. The other feedback was that it felt like there was a delay in the holders and they were not as responsive. 

Maybe with a revised version if they cast them out of some material other than carbon composite they will lower the weight which might help resolve these complaints. 

Sovwhats to become of them? 9 out of 10 is pretty high. I would have thougt maybe 3 4?? 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Sovwhats to become of them? 9 out of 10 is pretty high. I would have thougt maybe 3 4?? 

Good question. Not sure. I am taking this all with a grain of salt as it's a version 1.0 product. As I install more I'll report back, we have had a steady stream of players bring them in for mounting and as shipments go out I expect even more. 

[Dave P 18]

So does Marsblade help these guy's out, or is it   " thanks for your purchase, sorry you hated it" ?

Seems like a pretty high failure rate, people that buy new tech usually really want it to work and

don't admit to a bad choice easily.

Dave 

[Grimstarr 1]

If Kronwall is using it, there has to be something to the technology though?  There was an interview where he mentioned he liked it "after getting the profile right", so maybe that's an important part. 

[Marsblade 23]

On 2/26/2019 at 6:51 PM, Dave P said:

So does Marsblade help these guy's out, or is it   " thanks for your purchase, sorry you hated it" ?

Seems like a pretty high failure rate, people that buy new tech usually really want it to work and

don't admit to a bad choice easily.

Dave 

We certainly do. We are more than happy to help out if there's anyone that is in need for that. //Per Mars, Marsblade

[Marsblade 23]

On 2/25/2019 at 2:11 AM, Nicholas G said:

Out of the 10 holders I have installed 9 of the players have gone back to their previous holder. Not a lot of positive feedback so far.... What other feedback are others seeing? 

Hi Nicholas, 

I'm surprised to hear this as the general feedback we've received has been very good. Of the roughly 1000 pairs we've sent out I've only had contact with two guys that are not all dialed in yet. I'm makings some adjustments for them now and I'm confident that will turn them around. 

That being said this is a First Edition and we are constantly working on improvements. You mentioned in a comment a delay in response and guys feeling to far back on their heels. One thing we'll adjust for the coming version is the possibility to start with a smaller rocker movement to allow a less drastic transition. Although many guys prefer quite a lot of movement once they've used them a while, some don't have the patience to adjust. This will smoothen the transition. 

It would be great to get in contact with the customers you mentioned that went back to their old holders as I would be more than happy to make some adjustments I'm confident would turn them around. 

If you're interested in discussing further I'd like to connect with you via e-mail. It's important for us to gather as much feedback as possible to improve the product and you certainly seem very engaged in improving players performance. I tried to find your e-mail through your site but didn't find it...

Best regards Per Mars, Inventor

[Marsblade 23]

For the guys that haven't seen this interview with Kronwall who has been using them this season I thought it would be interesting to hear his thoughts. Feel free to contact me here or on my e-mail per@marsblade.com with any questions you might have //Per

[Deke 3]

Per,

I am not one of the above mentioned guys but I am feeling like it is too easy to get too far back. The compensation is to continuously focus on driving forward which I think is negating the benefit of the rocker. I sent you an email.

Deke

Edited March 6, 2019 by Deke

[Marsblade 23]

6 hours ago, Deke said:

Per,

I am not one of the above mentioned guys but I am feeling like it is too easy to get too far back. The compensation is to continuously focus on driving forward which I think is negating the benefit of the rocker. I sent you an email.

Deke

Ok! I'll be happy to send you some components to adjust the rocker. I replied to your e-mail. 

//Per

Edited March 6, 2019 by Marsblade

[Marsblade 23]

If anyone feel there's too much movement and feel they are, as described by some, "too far back on their heels". Please contact me and I can send you some components to adjust to a smaller rocker. My e-mail is per@marsblade.com //Per Mars, Inventor

[tricore 4]

Received my Marsblades Feb 18th but had to wait on my custom True skate order which arrived Mar 6th. My previous 2 pair of VH skates were pro returns. My local Pro Hockey life store installed them today with a flat bottom 5 sharpening, after heat moulding yesterday. With only out of the box settings they are amazing though 85 g heavier per skate. The added suspension gives me more edge control and turns are way better. Only needed 10 minutes on ice time to adjust to them. Thanks Per for the revolutionary innovation! Fast order time is because the skates are made here in Winnipeg!

[Marsblade 23]

7 hours ago, tricore said:

Received my Marsblades Feb 18th but had to wait on my custom True skate order which arrived Mar 6th. My previous 2 pair of VH skates were pro returns. My local Pro Hockey life store installed them today with a flat bottom 5 sharpening, after heat moulding yesterday. With only out of the box settings they are amazing though 85 g heavier per skate. The added suspension gives me more edge control and turns are way better. Only needed 10 minutes on ice time to adjust to them. Thanks Per for the revolutionary innovation! Fast order time is because the skates are made here in Winnipeg!

Thanks man! Glad to hear! Let me know if you have any questions going forward //Per

[YesLanges 127]

After waiting almost 2 years, I finally got the chance to try them out. They're on a pair of Langes, but those are the only skates I wear, so that shouldn't be a factor since I'm comparing apples to apples. I also had them radiused and profiled by the same shop (No-Icing Sports in New Hampshire) to the exact same specs as all of my other steels: combo 8'/13' radius, aggressive forward pitch, shaved heels and toes, and FBV 95/1. The installation was perfectly centered and the one thing about Langes is that there's no issue of getting used to another pair, because they don't have to be broken in at all and I purposely used my favorite liners from my current skates instead of different liners to eliminate any other variables. So, I'm confident that the only variable being tested was the new blades. 

I didn't feel too far back on my heels, but it wasn't a positive experience at all. They felt like they had way too much blade on the ice and they definitely slowed me down instead of improving my straightaway speed. I did concentrate on my stride and tried to find a way to get them to work with me instead of against me, with little success. The only potential positives were: (1) they seemed to promote a noticeably-lengthened cross-under; (2) I was surprised that they felt a little more stable skating backwards than my usual skates. (3) It's possible that they facilitated a slightly sharper turn, but that could also be that they were freshly sharpened. I'm going to see whether I can cut as sharply on my regular steels on Friday after a few passes with a my edger, just for comparison, because I was consciously testing how sharply I could cut yesterday, which isn't something I normally do. (4) A few times, my lead outside edge caught the ice in a way that felt like I might be able to work on a cut-stop or front-foot brake-turn, which isn't something I can normally do; so I'm also going to test that on my regular skates for comparison. That's it for the positives, and I'm being as generous as possible. Now, for the negatives:

(1) Slower straightaway speed, as mentioned above. (2) Too much blade on the ice, as mentioned above. (3) My forward crossovers required deliberate concentration and I couldn't get any hop into them at all. (4) Shooting off my inside leg required me to first transfer all of my weight onto that leg very early and shoot from a flamingo stance. This wasn't something I did consciously at all; it just happened naturally. After an hour on them, they felt no better (in any respect) than they did after the first 10 minutes.

It's possible that reducing my radius would counteract the sensation of too much blade on the ice, but I'm thinking if that's the case, what's the point of the technology if I have to do that just to get back to a normal feel? I'll be skating on my regular blades on Friday and don't even know that I'll be skating on these again if a full hour on them provided none of the advantage they're supposed to offer.

I take full responsibility for taking the gamble (roughly $400 when you factor in their cost and the cost of mounting and profiling them); but to be perfectly honest, I'd have to say that the promotional videos (now) seem deceptive to me and I'm just being 100% honest based on my hour on them. I just don't see how it's possible for anybody to slip these on for the first time and instantly recognize an immediate and obvious benefit after 3 or 4 strides the way all the pros featured in them describe.

The most benign and innocent explanation would be the placebo effect based on their expectations and what they were told they'd experience. Frankly, I don't know that I really believe the most benign and innocent explanation is more likely than the less benign and less honest explanation that they simply said exactly what they were being paid to say to promote a product. Of course, this is perfectly legal as "puffery" and no different from testimonials for myriad other consumer products featuring celebrity spokespeople, but it would be much more believable to me if those pros described a benefit only after some time on them and after some time dialing in their blade specs. Based on my experience, I just can't believe that anybody laced them up for the first time and noticed the tremendous benefit that all of them describe in those videos.

I may try them again, but I only get to practice once or twice a week and I hate wasting an hour of practice the way I felt like I did yesterday; and no way I'm playing in these the way I skated in them. I'm sorry, Per; but this was my experience and these are my genuine thoughts after an hour on them. I wouldn't have made the investment in them if I hadn't been hoping to be able to share a much more positive experience, obviously. I even rushed to get them installed so that I'd be able to try them out in time to order a second set of steels for them before the backers-only sale ends this Friday if they worked for me. I do appreciate the effort that went into the technology, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel somewhat mislead by the promotional videos for the reason explained above. If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them. Thank you.

Respectfully,

-Charles

  

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by YesLanges

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 3/6/2019 at 12:50 AM, Marsblade said:

Ok! I'll be happy to send you some components to adjust the rocker. I replied to your e-mail. 

//Per

@Marsblade I asked a few of the players who tried the holders and switched back to their stock ones about changing the dynamics of the holders and each player turned down the offer. They said even if we could get the feeling dialed in they consider the weight of the holder as too big of a hinderance. I can pass them your information if you would like and they can contact you directly if they prefer. 

[Marsblade 23]

7 hours ago, YesLanges said:

After waiting almost 2 years, I finally got the chance to try them out. They're on a pair of Langes, but those are the only skates I wear, so that shouldn't be a factor since I'm comparing apples to apples. I also had them radiused and profiled by the same shop (No-Icing Sports in New Hampshire) to the exact same specs as all of my other steels: combo 8'/13' radius, aggressive forward pitch, shaved heels and toes, and FBV 95/1. The installation was perfectly centered and the one thing about Langes is that there's no issue of getting used to another pair, because they don't have to be broken in at all and I purposely used my favorite liners from my current skates instead of different liners to eliminate any other variables. So, I'm confident that the only variable being tested was the new blades. 

I didn't feel too far back on my heels, but it wasn't a positive experience at all. They felt like they had way too much blade on the ice and they definitely slowed me down instead of improving my straightaway speed. I did concentrate on my stride and tried to find a way to get them to work with me instead of against me, with little success. The only potential positives were: (1) they seemed to promote a noticeably-lengthened cross-under; (2) I was surprised that they felt a little more stable skating backwards than my usual skates. (3) It's possible that they facilitated a slightly sharper turn, but that could also be that they were freshly sharpened. I'm going to see whether I can cut as sharply on my regular steels on Friday after a few passes with a my edger, just for comparison, because I was consciously testing how sharply I could cut yesterday, which isn't something I normally do. (4) A few times, my lead outside edge caught the ice in a way that felt like I might be able to work on a cut-stop or front-foot brake-turn, which isn't something I can normally do; so I'm also going to test that on my regular skates for comparison. That's it for the positives, and I'm being as generous as possible. Now, for the negatives:

(1) Slower straightaway speed, as mentioned above. (2) Too much blade on the ice, as mentioned above. (3) My forward crossovers required deliberate concentration and I couldn't get any hop into them at all. (4) Shooting off my inside leg required me to first transfer all of my weight onto that leg very early and shoot from a flamingo stance. This wasn't something I did consciously at all; it just happened naturally. After an hour on them, they felt no better (in any respect) than they did after the first 10 minutes.

It's possible that reducing my radius would counteract the sensation of too much blade on the ice, but I'm thinking if that's the case, what's the point of the technology if I have to do that just to get back to a normal feel? I'll be skating on my regular blades on Friday and don't even know that I'll be skating on these again if a full hour on them provided none of the advantage they're supposed to offer.

I take full responsibility for taking the gamble (roughly $400 when you factor in their cost and the cost of mounting and profiling them); but to be perfectly honest, I'd have to say that the promotional videos (now) seem deceptive to me and I'm just being 100% honest based on my hour on them. I just don't see how it's possible for anybody to slip these on for the first time and instantly recognize an immediate and obvious benefit after 3 or 4 strides the way all the pros featured in them describe.

The most benign and innocent explanation would be the placebo effect based on their expectations and what they were told they'd experience. Frankly, I don't know that I really believe the most benign and innocent explanation is more likely than the less benign and less honest explanation that they simply said exactly what they were being paid to say to promote a product. Of course, this is perfectly legal as "puffery" and no different from testimonials for myriad other consumer products featuring celebrity spokespeople, but it would be much more believable to me if those pros described a benefit only after some time on them and after some time dialing in their blade specs. Based on my experience, I just can't believe that anybody laced them up for the first time and noticed the tremendous benefit that all of them describe in those videos.

I may try them again, but I only get to practice once or twice a week and I hate wasting an hour of practice the way I felt like I did yesterday; and no way I'm playing in these the way I skated in them. I'm sorry, Per; but this was my experience and these are my genuine thoughts after an hour on them. I wouldn't have made the investment in them if I hadn't been hoping to be able to share a much more positive experience, obviously. I even rushed to get them installed so that I'd be able to try them out in time to order a second set of steels for them before the backers-only sale ends this Friday if they worked for me. I do appreciate the effort that went into the technology, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel somewhat mislead by the promotional videos for the reason explained above. If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them. Thank you.

Respectfully,

-Charles

  

 

 

 

Hi Charles, 

Very sorry to hear about your negative experience. I do however appreciate the feedback. For some players we've lately learned that there can be somewhat of a learning curve to adapt to take advantage of the technology depending on skating style, balance etc. But a majority also feel the advantages quickly. I'd be happy to share some of all the very positive in depth reviews we've received from other Kickstarter backers if you would like to see that. You can also check our Instagram and Facebook pages. That being said. It's a continues development and we are making some changes to allow a more gradual transition, adding movement step by step for players that prefer that. I've just recently made some components for our Kickstarter backers to make this adjustment and I'd be happy to send you them if you'd like try that out. 

Please feel free to e-mail me at per@marsblade.com to discuss further. I really hope to be able to work with you to make you happy with the investment. 

Best regards Per Mars

 

 

[Marsblade 23]

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

@Marsblade I asked a few of the players who tried the holders and switched back to their stock ones about changing the dynamics of the holders and each player turned down the offer. They said even if we could get the feeling dialed in they consider the weight of the holder as too big of a hinderance. I can pass them your information if you would like and they can contact you directly if they prefer. 

@Nicholas G Ok, thanks for talking to them anyway! //Per

[YesLanges 127]

Thanks for your reply, Per. I'm open to suggestion if those details give you any ideas about how to make them work for me. If it's cool with you, I'd rather just continue the conversation here, where it benefits everyone and where I first learned about your product campaign. I don't have Facebook or Instacrack or Twitter or any social media presence, so a forum is my most comfortable medium for a serious conversation that might be of equal interest and benefit to others. Thank you for being willing to discuss this without taking offense at a substantially negative review. I tend to be a little wordy, but most of them have meaning and what I mean to provide is one customer's genuine, objective, and totally unfiltered honest thoughts about your product without editing anything that's an honest impression or factual so as not to offend an overly sensitive or defensive product designer...and you don't seem to pose that concern. So I'm looking forward to learning from your experience.

The only thing I can think of might be to change from my 8'/13' radius to something different, but I don't really know what adjustment to try first or whether I should change other variables first. Not crazy about spending $60-70+ every time I have to ship them back and forth to No-Icing and pay for a whole new combo profile and FBV sharpening again each time they need a tweak. Probably less enthused about spending my practice time on this instead of doing drills and working on my skills just as I'm feeling close to 100% again since coming back from a herniated disk in June and getting ready to play again next month. But if there's a good chance of a potential payoff, I'm probably invested too  much already to pull the plug after 1 skate. I'm just disappointed that I didn't take to them after 10 or 15 minutes the way I did when switching over to a combo radius and FBV. I'll be more than happy to add to this description to include the ongoing efforts and any successes figuring out how to make these right for me. 

On my current MB configuration, my 8'/13' radius doesn't provide additional stability, except in a bad way: my edges are controlling me, or at least, I always have to keep that from happening. Lifting my skates off the ice feels like they're stuck a bit. Forward stride feels largely the same as usual, but doesn't generate as much speed. I notice some extra stability backwards. I cannot un-weight my outside skate in sync with shooting normally off my inside leg. My crossovers are being pulled into exaggerated power-skating-class style of slow and deliberate and longer range, but without input from me on that...pretty much going for a ride on them. Trying to generate speed around a circle, it looks like I'm demonstrating exaggerated good form and full extension at half speed...but I can't do it at regular speed to get moving. There's a balance issue somewhere because i can't get into crossing over at a good clip at all..only one or two longer-than-usual-range crossover strides in either direction. No issues stopping or cutting as sharply as I want to.

Is there anything so far that you think I might want to try before re-profiling my steels? 

-Charles

 

[Marsblade 23]

Sounds good to me @YesLanges ! As you mention others can learn from our conversation as well, good point!

I totally understand the frustration if things don't feel good. When you love skating and playing hockey, even one skate with a bad experience makes you frustrated. It might take some patience but at the end I'm very convinced that you'll enjoy the game even more when you're dialed in with our technology. Converting to our holder is certainly a bigger change than going to a combo radius and FBV so the transition period might be longer but the upside greater. 

The body has a strong muscle memory and as you've been skating a certain way your whole life, pushing of at a certain angle, with certain joint movements at a certain speed. This needs to be adjusted slightly. If you continue to perform the exact same movement at the exact same time and speed you're not going to find support for pushing off where you're used to, you're not going to find optimum glide where you're used to and your movements will feel off. You've certainly experienced other changes in your hockey equipment that felt strange (even if it's not as strange as you've experienced now). A stick that is couple of mm too short/long or with a blade with a new curve. Testing a new sharpening on your skates (as you mention), it can feel very strange even just a slight change. But once you've used it for a couple of skates, the feel goes from "I can't used this" to "I'm never going back". At least I've had those experiences... And just mentally new protective gear that doesn't directly effect performance can make you frustrated just because it feels stiff and bulky. To not mention new skates... 

That being said, I think it's a combination of having a couple more hours on them to make some small changes in your movement pattern, along with starting at a smaller rocker movement. I suggest I send you the components for you to get a more gradual transition to the movement. It's bushings with different outer diameters that you add to the rear heel sprint to reduce the movement slightly. 

I don't think you should change the profile yet.

What's your shipping address? Or I can take your backer ID and find the info there. If I get your info today I'll ship tomorrow and you should have them by mid next week. 

Looking forward to dial you in! //Per

Edited March 14, 2019 by Marsblade

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

1 hour ago, YesLanges said:

The only thing I can think of might be to change from my 8'/13' radius to something different, but I don't really know what adjustment to try first or whether I should change other variables first. Not crazy about spending $60-70+ every time I have to ship them back and forth and pay for a whole new combo profile and FBV sharpening again each time they need a tweak. 

Is there anything so far that you think I might want to try before re-profiling my steels? 

-Charles

 

Or you can just pay the shipping and participate in our Prosharp Project...and not get the same profile that everyone gets from that place.  But definitely work on the holder first, as that's the profile you're used to at the moment.

[YesLanges 127]

Thanks, Per. I'm Backer # 497.