How bad was my skate fitting and which skates should I really wear?

[mer 2]

Hi there!

I'm a long time lurker who finally has a personal question. 

I get the feeling that my skates aren't right for me at all and that something went wrong when the guy in the store did the fitting. They'e my first pair that is actually new and has never been worn by anyone else and I trusted the LHS to get it right because they have a good reputation. 

The Bauer scale thing said I was an 8, but he said my feet were too wide for that, so he brought me Supremes in a 10EE, which were way too wide. I felt wobbly on them and they just felt like cardboard boxes strapped to my feet.

Next were CCM Tacks 4092 which were better. I figured he'd let me know if they were horrible (naive, I know), but he was pleased and baked them for me. He had me stand up with my knees bent for ten minutes which, as I've learned here, probably didn't help. 

At any rate, I can't really feel either the toe or the heel of my skate and I need to tie them so tightly my feet hurt if I don't want to slide around in them. 

I was wondering which skates would be a better fit for me. I've since done the Bauer 3D scan which interestingly also suggested Supremes 10EE. But those definitely did not work. 

I like/need space for my toes especially the balls of my feet, but I can't bear any looseness around my ankles. 

That sounds like a Vapor, but from what I hear they'e for people with narrow feet so I'm kind of at a loss here.

Is there maybe a way for my current skates to be salvaged?

Any input would be appreciated!

Edited February 16, 2018 by mer

[Vet88 647]

Here is a simple test for you, take the laces out, pull the tongue right out, slide your foot into the boot and push forward until your toes are brushing the toe cap. Now see if you can slide a pencil down the back of your heel between your heel and the boot. If you can then the skates are at LEAST a half a size too large for you. Ideally, for a perfect fit, you will have around 1mm of space between the back of the heel and the skate. But you like a little bit of space for the toes so you should be looking for around 2mm of room because when the skates wear in and you lock your heel into the pocket you will gain an extra mm or 2.

But back to your original question, can you salvage them if they are 2 sizes too long for you (based on the bauer scale, which I assume is a brannock or something similar, that says you are an 8)? The answer is a resounding NO. I'd be going back to the store and having a long discussion with them about a shitty fitting and people who have no idea about what they are supposed to be knowledgeable about. Narrow ankles, really wide forefoot, you fall into the category that no current skate manufacturer will "out of the box" solve with an off the shelf retail boot. If you want a retail boot to fit then you have to look at a high end model (because of its capability to be punched and stretched) and do this: fit first for heel lock and length (do this with the laces removed and the tongue out), now do the laces up and test forefoot and over all fit. If you have pinching in the forefoot then any half decent LHS should be able to stretch / punch the forefoot for you. I'd be looking at Vapours, Jetspeeds, FT1s and Reeboks or something from these lines and then get them stretched as needed. There is of course customs from True / Bauer / CCM. 

The 3D scan will only fit you to your BIGGEST measurement, if your forefoot is a supreme 10EE then that's what it will recommend, it will not tell you that your heel should be in a 8D vapour.

[Buzz_LightBeer 887]

Just getting more details here, are you sure you’re looking at the size correctly? If the brannock says 8, but the skates are 10EE and also suggested by the 3D scan, something is amiss. Unless the skates are 8.5EE and a 10EE shoe, which would make more sense. What model of Supreme skate?

 

im a proponent of the LHS fitting and support, but was never a fan of settling for a skate just because it was all your shop had. In This case though, it sounds like the skates are too big, and possibly too wide. 

 

My suggestion would be to be to find somewhere you can try on Supremes, RibCores, and/or Tacks. Keep trying smaller sizes until you find one that is too small, then when size is determined focus on width. Keep in mind that “snug” is a good thing, but “tight and uncomfortable” is not. 

 

And lastly, you should be the one telling the shop guy how the fit is and “how horrible they are,” not the other way around. 

[Buzz_LightBeer 887]

Also, use the scanner as a guideline, not gospel. That is, unless you plan to wear the scanner on your foot instead. 😊

[mer 2]

13 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Here is a simple test for you, take the laces out, pull the tongue right out, slide your foot into the boot and push forward until your toes are brushing the toe cap. Now see if you can slide a pencil down the back of your heel between your heel and the boot. If you can then the skates are at LEAST a half a size too large for you. Ideally, for a perfect fit, you will have around 1mm of space between the back of the heel and the skate. But you like a little bit of space for the toes so you should be looking for around 2mm of room because when the skates wear in and you lock your heel into the pocket you will gain an extra mm or 2.

But back to your original question, can you salvage them if they are 2 sizes too long for you (based on the bauer scale, which I assume is a brannock or something similar, that says you are an 8)? The answer is a resounding NO. I'd be going back to the store and having a long discussion with them about a shitty fitting and people who have no idea about what they are supposed to be knowledgeable about. Narrow ankles, really wide forefoot, you fall into the category that no current skate manufacturer will "out of the box" solve with an off the shelf retail boot. If you want a retail boot to fit then you have to look at a high end model (because of its capability to be punched and stretched) and do this: fit first for heel lock and length (do this with the laces removed and the tongue out), now do the laces up and test forefoot and over all fit. If you have pinching in the forefoot then any half decent LHS should be able to stretch / punch the forefoot for you. I'd be looking at Vapours, Jetspeeds, FT1s and Reeboks or something from these lines and then get them stretched as needed. There is of course customs from True / Bauer / CCM. 

The 3D scan will only fit you to your BIGGEST measurement, if your forefoot is a supreme 10EE then that's what it will recommend, it will not tell you that your heel should be in a 8D vapour.

Thank you so much for your detailed answer and recommendations!

I wanted to try the pencil test the way you recommended it, but then got curious and tried it with the skates tied. I can definitely fit a normal pencil in there when tied. Untied, I could fit even more in there. Like several pencils. I'm not sure what to compare it to, but there's definitely a lot of space. 

Also, I looked at my 3D results again and it turned out I got them mixed up with the fitting. I'm sorry about the confusion. 

The Bauer machine recommended Supremes in 9EE. Since I think I'd prefer the narrower ankles of the Vapors, I think, what would a 9EE in Supremes be in Vapors? I know the machine is imperfect, but I would like at least a starting point. 

Thank you again!

[mojo122 500]

Size would be the same.  Scanner looks at multiple measurements, not just width and length and recommends best fit.  That doesn't mean you can't wear a Vapor.  However, if you try on a Vapor and are feeling a lot of pressure on top of the foot over the laces, that's normally a good indicator that there's not enough volume in the boot for your foot.

[mer 2]

13 hours ago, Buzz_LightBeer said:

Just getting more details here, are you sure you’re looking at the size correctly? If the brannock says 8, but the skates are 10EE and also suggested by the 3D scan, something is amiss. Unless the skates are 8.5EE and a 10EE shoe, which would make more sense. What model of Supreme skate?

 

im a proponent of the LHS fitting and support, but was never a fan of settling for a skate just because it was all your shop had. In This case though, it sounds like the skates are too big, and possibly too wide. 

 

My suggestion would be to be to find somewhere you can try on Supremes, RibCores, and/or Tacks. Keep trying smaller sizes until you find one that is too small, then when size is determined focus on width. Keep in mind that “snug” is a good thing, but “tight and uncomfortable” is not. 

 

And lastly, you should be the one telling the shop guy how the fit is and “how horrible they are,” not the other way around. 

Thank you for your help!

I got mixed up with the scan. It said 9EE in Supremes while the LHS recommended 10EE. Since those didn't fit, I went with the slightly tighter CCM skates in 10EE.

Keep in mind that I didn't do the scan until after I'd already bought the skates. They were my first pair and I didn't know what to look for so I figured the LHS would know best. 

And of course I realize the scan isn't set in stone, but it might be a good starting point from which to go down in size. 

How tight should the top of the skates (where the laces are) feel when I tie them?

Thank you again for your help!

[mer 2]

21 minutes ago, mojo122 said:

Size would be the same.  Scanner looks at multiple measurements, not just width and length and recommends best fit.  That doesn't mean you can't wear a Vapor.  However, if you try on a Vapor and are feeling a lot of pressure on top of the foot over the laces, that's normally a good indicator that there's not enough volume in the boot for your foot.

The scan said Supreme for all categories (instep height, forefoot height, ankle wrap, etc.), but I'm guessing that once you tick too many Supreme boxes, it just says it's the perfect fit in all those categories. I mean, I did wear them a size too big, but they really felt extremely flabby all around to the point where I just can't imagine that going down a size would give me the tightness around the ankle I would like. 

How should the top ideally feel? Should I feel the top at all or should it be weight/pressureless?

[mojo122 500]

Might depend on which model you are considering and the overall volume of your feet.  Have you tried on a Supreme in 9EE?  As Buzz stated, the scanner is a guideline and a good starting point.  

[Vet88 647]

15 hours ago, mer said:

I wanted to try the pencil test the way you recommended it, but then got curious and tried it with the skates tied. I can definitely fit a normal pencil in there when tied. Untied, I could fit even more in there. Like several pencils. I'm not sure what to compare it to, but there's definitely a lot of space. 

lol, if you can fit a pencil in there with your skates tied then that is a major cluster f**k. Honestly, that is one seriously bad fitting and wherever you got it from should be ashamed of themselves. Start with the manual measurement you had done, it said 8 for length, do the laces out pencil test then go from there, even going smaller in length if necessary.

As to volume (the top), use the pencil again. With the laces untied and your foot in the boot, place the pencil across the boot around the 3rd and 4th eyelet. For an ideal volume fit the pencil should just miss touching your foot. If your foot bulges out of the skate and the pencil sits heavily on it then you are at risk of getting lace bite from the skates at a later date. But if the skates fit you everywhere else then this can be dealt with in other ways.

[mojo122 500]

Maybe if the OP wants to divulge where he lives someone here can recommend a shop somewhere near him who can fit him.  There's some conflicting information in this thread.  If the Bauer 3D scan recommended a 9EE Supreme there's no way he measured an 8 on  the Brannock.  

[mer 2]

6 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Maybe if the OP wants to divulge where he lives someone here can recommend a shop somewhere near him who can fit him.  There's some conflicting information in this thread.  If the Bauer 3D scan recommended a 9EE Supreme there's no way he measured an 8 on  the Brannock.  

I assure you, I did measure an 8 when they measured it manually. That's what the guy told me anyway. He said that my feet would be too wide for an 8, though. That's why he recommended the 10.

The Bauer scan measured an 8.5 in the right foot and a 9 in the left foot and recommended the 9 overall. Since the LHS guy only measured my right foot, maybe that's why he ended up with the 8? I'm not sure, to be honest. 

I have, however, read on here that the way you'e standing during the scan can affect how big it measures you. I was standing up straight which apparently makes it bigger. But I don't know for sure. 

There is no other place where I'm from, but I'll be in Canada later this year, namely in the Oakville/Mississauga area. If anyone has any recommendations for that area, I'd be happy. 

7 hours ago, Vet88 said:

lol, if you can fit a pencil in there with your skates tied then that is a major cluster f**k. Honestly, that is one seriously bad fitting and wherever you got it from should be ashamed of themselves. Start with the manual measurement you had done, it said 8 for length, do the laces out pencil test then go from there, even going smaller in length if necessary.

As to volume (the top), use the pencil again. With the laces untied and your foot in the boot, place the pencil across the boot around the 3rd and 4th eyelet. For an ideal volume fit the pencil should just miss touching your foot. If your foot bulges out of the skate and the pencil sits heavily on it then you are at risk of getting lace bite from the skates at a later date. But if the skates fit you everywhere else then this can be dealt with in other ways.

Thank you for the pointers! I'll do these tests the next time I try on skates and hopefully end up with something better. Just out of interest, what could be done against lacebite?

[chocks86 82]

There are gel lace bite pads that could be put under the tongue of the skate but I never had any success with them, but you might. Lace bite can be very painful and debilitating so the volume of the skate is definitely one of the things you need to specifically pay attention to. Skates can be punched or stretched in other areas to combat some issues but there is not much you can do to add volume to a skate. 

[puckpilot 281]

7 hours ago, mojo122 said:

If the Bauer 3D scan recommended a 9EE Supreme there's no way he measured an 8 on  the Brannock.  

Sometimes fitters are given out of date or improper tools. I went to one very trusted shop. They measured me up as a 4.5, which was half size smaller than my old skates. They're fitting was spot on. I went to another store, their Brannock measured me as a 6.5. I told them that measurement was wrong and told them to bring me 4.5. They wouldn't believe me and instead brought out a 5.5, saying that they were the same price as the 4.5, implying I was being a cheap ass. 

To prove a point, I put the skates on and proceeded to stick all my fingers down the back of the skate.

[Leif 156]

As said, if the skate is too shallow you will get lace bite. I wear Supreme 7EE. Originally I was sold a Vapor 8EE and I kept falling over, my feet would shoot forwards when skating slowly, injuring myself several times. The skate was almost 20mm too long, judging by the objects I could put in the toe cap and still wear the boot. I suspect the boot being too long meant that the ball of my foot was in the wrong position relative to the blade, throwing off my balance. Needless to say I soon bought replacements that fitted correctly. You really do want a good fit. 

I know several people whose skates are too narrow in the toe area, one has ordered True VH skates. Bauer only do three foot shapes, and I guess not everyone can find a good fit. However, it sounds like your fitter was a cretin, so you might fit a standard skate. 

[mer 2]

58 minutes ago, Leif said:

As said, if the skate is too shallow you will get lace bite. I wear Supreme 7EE. Originally I was sold a Vapor 8EE and I kept falling over, my feet would shoot forwards when skating slowly, injuring myself several times. The skate was almost 20mm too long, judging by the objects I could put in the toe cap and still wear the boot. I suspect the boot being too long meant that the ball of my foot was in the wrong position relative to the blade, throwing off my balance. Needless to say I soon bought replacements that fitted correctly. You really do want a good fit. 

I know several people whose skates are too narrow in the toe area, one has ordered True VH skates. Bauer only do three foot shapes, and I guess not everyone can find a good fit. However, it sounds like your fitter was a cretin, so you might fit a standard skate. 

It's interesting to hear that. I've been having trouble with my forward stride with these and I've felt somehow wobbly and unbalanced. Perhaps it's not (just) my lousy forward skating, but also the fact that my foot isn't sitting over the blade correctly. 

Since you've had both Vapors and Supremes, I have a few questions if you don't mind: How would you describe the shape of your feet? Would you say they were any different from each other in terms of performance other than the fit?

Thank you!

[JSK81 400]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

As said, if the skate is too shallow you will get lace bite. I wear Supreme 7EE. Originally I was sold a Vapor 8EE and I kept falling over, my feet would shoot forwards when skating slowly, injuring myself several times. The skate was almost 20mm too long, judging by the objects I could put in the toe cap and still wear the boot. I suspect the boot being too long meant that the ball of my foot was in the wrong position relative to the blade, throwing off my balance. Needless to say I soon bought replacements that fitted correctly. You really do want a good fit.

If size 8 was 2 centimeters too long a size 7 skate will still be too big.

[Leif 156]

36 minutes ago, JSK81 said:

If size 8 was 2 centimeters too long a size 7 skate will still be too big.

You would think so, but the 7EE Supreme is perfect, my toes barely touch the ends. My normal shoe size is 9 UK. 

[stick9 783]

3 hours ago, Leif said:

As said, if the skate is too shallow you will get lace bite. I wear Supreme 7EE. Originally I was sold a Vapor 8EE and I kept falling over, my feet would shoot forwards when skating slowly, injuring myself several times. The skate was almost 20mm too long, judging by the objects I could put in the toe cap and still wear the boot. I suspect the boot being too long meant that the ball of my foot was in the wrong position relative to the blade, throwing off my balance. Needless to say I soon bought replacements that fitted correctly. You really do want a good fit. 

I know several people whose skates are too narrow in the toe area, one has ordered True VH skates. Bauer only do three foot shapes, and I guess not everyone can find a good fit. However, it sounds like your fitter was a cretin, so you might fit a standard skate. 

Chances are those Vapors were incorrectly sized in length to accommodate the volume of your foot. I would think coming from an EE Vapor you’d go to a D Supreme. That EE Supreme May prove to be a little too wide once you really break them in.

Edited February 18, 2018 by stick9

[Leif 156]

1 hour ago, mer said:

It's interesting to hear that. I've been having trouble with my forward stride with these and I've felt somehow wobbly and unbalanced. Perhaps it's not (just) my lousy forward skating, but also the fact that my foot isn't sitting over the blade correctly. 

Since you've had both Vapors and Supremes, I have a few questions if you don't mind: How would you describe the shape of your feet? Would you say they were any different from each other in terms of performance other than the fit?

Thank you!

My feet are foot shaped! Seriously though, Nexus did not lock my heels, but the toes were good. The Vapor was too narrow at the heel, and too shallow. The Supreme had enough depth and locked my heel. My feet are quite wide at the toes, not unduly so. I don’t understand the last question. Do you mean are my feet different? Yes, slightly but not enough to worry. Or are you asking if the Vapor and Supreme are different performance wise? Honestly I cannot say, but I don’t think so. The biggest differences are between the different models in a range. My S160 is nice and stiff, but the outside layer is a thin soft plastic which rips easily when skate blades hit it. The inside looks to be moulded plastic. The S170 outer layer is more robust. The S1 is even stiffer and tougher, a friend has them, and they are much stronger. 

[Leif 156]

1 minute ago, stick9 said:

Chances are those Vapors were incorrectly sized in length to accommodate the volume of your foot. I would think coming from an EE Vapor you’d go to a D Supreme. That EE Supreme May prove to be a little too wide once you really break them in.

I’ve had the EE S160 for over a year, and they fit really well. I do have fairly wide feet. There is lots of space above the toes, but I think that’s normal, I don’t notice it when skating. I am surprised the Vapor x500 8EE was so long. Maybe it was 8.5EE UK, it’s confusing as the box will be marked in UK and US sizes, which are slightly different. The hockey coach who fitted me was a moron. He should have known better. But hey, a sale is a sale. 

[stick9 783]

So here’s the thing. Whoever fitted you started with a skate that wasn’t gonna work with your foot. When it didn’t fit right they just went longer. If you feel good in a EE Supreme there is no way you should be in a Vapor, way too narrow for your foot.

Sale or not, skates has to fit and fit properly. 

[Leif 156]

20 minutes ago, stick9 said:

So here’s the thing. Whoever fitted you started with a skate that wasn’t gonna work with your foot. When it didn’t fit right they just went longer. If you feel good in a EE Supreme there is no way you should be in a Vapor, way too narrow for your foot.

Sale or not, skates has to fit and fit properly. 

Who is that addressed to? 

[mer 2]

35 minutes ago, Leif said:

My feet are foot shaped! Seriously though, Nexus did not lock my heels, but the toes were good. The Vapor was too narrow at the heel, and too shallow. The Supreme had enough depth and locked my heel. My feet are quite wide at the toes, not unduly so. I don’t understand the last question. Do you mean are my feet different? Yes, slightly but not enough to worry. Or are you asking if the Vapor and Supreme are different performance wise? Honestly I cannot say, but I don’t think so. The biggest differences are between the different models in a range. My S160 is nice and stiff, but the outside layer is a thin soft plastic which rips easily when skate blades hit it. The inside looks to be moulded plastic. The S170 outer layer is more robust. The S1 is even stiffer and tougher, a friend has them, and they are much stronger. 

Haha, I was just trying to determine if my feet are really that weird/unusually shaped. They never seemed that odd to me, but the whole skate thing has left me wondering if maybe they just weren't meant for a retail boot. 

And yeah, I was wondering about the skate performance because you hear all kinds of things about the Vapors being better somehow. I was always under the impression that the fit/personal skating ability were the most important things to get a good performance out of the skate, but maybe I'm wrong. 

Thank you for answering my questions!

[stick9 783]

25 minutes ago, Leif said:

Who is that addressed to? 

@Leif Thst was for you. I forgot to tag you in the post.

If you feel good in a EE Supreme you should avoid Vapors like the plague. You should consider yourself a Supreme/Nexus type fit. 

There is enough info here on the site where you can essentially fit yourself. Sucks seeing people forced into a boot that was never going to work.