VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

19 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Meh…. I'm not buying it. A statement like that (bolded) gives one the impression that every facet of the skate is custom made to specs of each individual customer. That sort of process would take months and the cost would be astronomical. I highly doubt they operate like that.

I'm also not buying they'll last longer. There is no real way to prove that. 

What do you mean you can't prove they last longer? That's actually pretty easy. 

You sell x amount of skates. Customer Y bought his Trues 2 years ago he normally goes through a skate once a year playing wise. Now its lasted 2. I'm sure any equipment manager will tell you compared to other skates at high end use instead of player X going through 12 pairs hes down to 6 or 5. I've heard that many times. Especially with goalies.  

As for the manufacturing sector I know from what scott told me they pick the closest last and build out from there for needed issues. Then lay the carbon over. 

If you have been doing it 20 years pretty sure they can build a skate much faster now. 

[Sniper9 530]

8 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

@Sniper9 I agree that the True scan seems odd.  I have seen videos of people getting scanned.  However, I don't think 3D scans are 100% foolproof.  I have done the Bauer scan and it told me I should be in 8.5 which is half a size too long.  I know JR said when he was testing the machine if you stood straight up and down it usually added a half size.  You even with not being 100% happy with your skates you would still go back?  Why?  I agree within the next few years as technology increases I think the scans will get better.

@Nicholas G I have seen the 'demo' pair or whatever you want to call it at the local Pure I will admit they are tanks so I can see that being a benefit.  I do disagree though I have been in the same pair of Supreme 190s (MX3 season) for the last 3 years.  Up until this year, I was playing in the highest level of men's league in my area and I am a former ACHA player.  I am not going to say I am some sort of an elite skater or anything like that, but I think I skate pretty well.  I usually play 2-4 times a week and my 190s are still in great condition.  Maybe I am not as hard on my skates as others but as far as I am concerned the durability of my Bauers have met my expectations and I would say I should get at least another 3 years out of them.

Also as @Leif stated are you sure Bauer and CCM are picking as last off the shelf because they are both claiming to making the skates off of a 3D print out of your foot.  I heard it was True that was picking a last that was closest to peoples scans.  I know True has more than 3 last maybe they have 1,000 I don't know so I am not saying they are closing their eyes and just hoping for the best but it is still not built off of a 3D print out of your foot.

I know part of the issue with my original question is VH/True skates used to be the easiest way to get customs before the 3D scanning came into play.  With Bauer and CCM you needed to find a shop with a fitter that you trusted and to be honest I don't even know how the process went.  Bauer and CCM have only been building custom skates off of a 3D scan at retail for a few months so its tough to gauge them this early on all I know is what my friend has said about his custom CCMs.  I mean this thread alone has 160+ pages so there is a lot of dialogue about these skates so there is just a ton of info. 

 

Anyone else on why they decided True over Bauer or CCM?

Thing is how do I know I'd be 100% happy with ccm or even Bauer?  I fit retail skates pretty well for Bauer so if I do end up going with bauer again I'd likely just go retail route. 

As for the Trues. I discussed how the fit on the right foot isn't 100% and it was more to do with my own foots arch and how it collpases depending on how it's positioned. Something I didn't know existed until months after getting fitted. 

[smu 29]

On 11/7/2018 at 10:24 AM, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Well if it makes you feel better smug ibhave had 2 customers one with one of the other 2 custom brands and one with the other. One plays extremely high end hockey and will be drafted next year in the NHL and one will be drafted in the OHL. Both top picks. And both had skates fitting in a similar fashion. The latter in the OHL was far worse than yours and caused a bone calsification in just a week and a half of wear! And those were 1500 including tax!!!

Oh and they wont remake them unless they send them back.  Kinda hard when your AAA and in your draft year. Oh and both blades were bent and one mounted all the way forward and the other all the way back.  

 

If it is me that you are referring to, yes I am very lucky to be able to send mine back twice after a very bad first fitting. The first pair was so bad it was thought I received some one else's scan. So they were sent back with a second scan along with a list of all the faults and errors that were in my first pair, like the rivets not being parallel, making the holders not centered and crooked, causing the bending of the steel. The width of the skate was so far off, it seems it would fit two of me and as I said before the skates were too long by an inch or so. That's enough to say about the issues at this moment! I want (no stuffing in my toe box).

What do I get back is the exact same skate with stuffing in the toe box and nothing else fixed at all. No explanation, nothing. I have photos before the skates went back and all the photos match the first pair. Nothing fixed and nothing read with respect to instructions, the second scan was not even reviewed or it could not have been!

I am saying this cannot be True, with a capital T.  This can't be my second pair of skates? But they were, what were they thinking? I can't even comprehend it? The same skates back with nothing fixed, the same skates with all the problems and second scan! One thing was added, some pieces of 6 mm dense foam to make them feel smaller and let my toes "touch the end".

Argh!  Now they are going back again and this will be my third try and suggesting very hard that they read the message and look at the photos of my old skates that go along with it and that I want a new pair the size of my size 5 Bauer. If they are a bit thicker and heavier I don't mind as long as they are not a long skate that needs a filler for me to skate.

You know, it might be that if the boot is any smaller I will get the Junior price $200 cheaper, if it is made to my size and not have that silly toe box making the skate longer and really not warranted at all.  Dense foam so I could feel my toes touch is something! You do want to lightly touch the end of the toe box because once the laces are pulled the heel will move back and away from the toe and you get then a good heel lock. 

With these long skates the pricing increased from a junior to a senior or $200 plus tax. This was new to me and the LHS, but I took it in stride and said if they work for my pronation, I did not care what they cost. I was a bit miffed at this approach when I saw how large my skates were and how long the toe box was, no wonder I was charged more, by design IMHO, but I wanted my pronation gone!

They adjust the price by what ever size holder fits the boot.  Apparently my runner or steel that fits the holder was 8 mm longer than my last X 90 Bauer, but I believe the old Bauer boot was at least an inch shorter over all.

My thoughts are that True's idea to stretch the toe box makes for a lot of extra capital and that size easily put me into a senior. No wonder they are trying to get me some nice foam for all the space in the toe box. This really though does not explain all the other issues that just were not fixed!

In order to be returned to True I had to at least try the skates on the ice (both pairs to this point)and then indicate how I felt with them. Even though they are 1 or 2 sizes to big, I did have a better time than my old skates as the True skates took my pronation problem away. But the holders and blades felt odd and their large size was getting in the way, but again my pronation was gone. I did fall a few twice directly related to the bowed blades / holder problems and did hurt my already bad left shoulder twice and there was a few other easy falls, but related to normal moves, but ended up on the ice Thinking about the holders, blades and huge size I did think "what if I slam into the end boards" I could have easily gone head first into the boards and that would have been a much larger issue.

I now await for my third pair and hope it is almost an overnight turnaround kind of thing since it is the third try. I missed enough hockey as it is.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

So.... I think there was a scan issue. But your comment about making skates bigger to sell SR is completely in accurate.  I have actually had the reverse happen the majority of times it's a close call. Hence 90% of those clients baught a new pair when SR was needed. Its actually of no benefit to make the skate bigger and add foams for the Factory only more cost to them. 

I know Rob will get it right.

 

I truly believe the scanner may not have been calibrated correctly or lighting issue or something else. 

[stick9 891]

6 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

What do you mean you can't prove they last longer? That's actually pretty easy. 

You sell x amount of skates. Customer Y bought his Trues 2 years ago he normally goes through a skate once a year playing wise. Now its lasted 2. I'm sure any equipment manager will tell you compared to other skates at high end use instead of player X going through 12 pairs hes down to 6 or 5. I've heard that many times. Especially with goalies.  

As for the manufacturing sector I know from what scott told me they pick the closest last and build out from there for needed issues. Then lay the carbon over. 

If you have been doing it 20 years pretty sure they can build a skate much faster now. 

I don't  think you're  following  me when it comes to the manufacturing process. My point is simple, the skate is not made from scratch. It's assembled from parts that are pre-made to fit a specific last. From scratch implies that ever piece is cut and made specifily for that customer. That would mean every boot was a complete one off. You can't sustain that at those costs, you just can't. 

As for last longer. Maybe you can prove it, it just sounds so far fetched. It's not like miles on a tire.

[stick9 891]

I'm actually shocked someone gave them a third shot after that experience.

[smu 29]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

So.... I think there was a scan issue. But your comment about making skates bigger to sell SR is completely in accurate.  I have actually had the reverse happen the majority of times it's a close call. Hence 90% of those clients baught a new pair when SR was needed. Its actually of no benefit to make the skate bigger and add foams for the Factory only more cost to them. I know Rob will get it right. I truly believe the scanner may not have been calibrated correctly or lighting issue or something else. 

This does sound like a good statement if the fact were just the length, but I have to admit it may not be so. Two "monkeys" have gotten me to were the same pair of skates, uncorrected except for the suspicious pieces of foam that were applied in the toe box. It was 6 mm thick of dense foam taped in with masking tape that and fell out. As soon as I put them on I thought the skate changed closer to my size and I could just feel the toe or so I thought, but just barely so. True did not see the whole picture that have mentioned time and time again. All the problems with the hardware, why they did not, it's beyond me and twice back to True to boot with all my photographs.

Rob is a great guy and he put up with a lot of my questions a year or so ago, but I could not quite afford the skates then. Rob even offered to send foam form boxes so my pronation could be measured accurately, but with a cost,at least I had that to fall back on in case i needed it.

1) ***I am not sure what is done with pronators and I wish someone could tell me other than just the stiff boot that did help me with my short trial the last two week, but there must be more such as the footbed that were not in mine!

2) ***I am now also wondering if the scan can do the proper job for pronation, the  issue s when the scan is taken the foot is as flat as it can be, when a podiatrist does it he put's your foot into the foam box but they always hold onto the underside of your foot and it is pulled up before being placed into the box while still holding so it forms as an arch shape, not a flat foot!

Hey, if a company is going down, they will try anything to cover their cost, there is nothing I know or would think it is this way for True IMHO, but I expect to see a shorter skate this third order time that fits me to a tee! I can't wait until someone at True reviews my order, what a mess has been made of it, just unbelievable!

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

So.... I think there was a scan issue. But your comment about making skates biggerto sell SR is completely in accurate.  I have actually had the reverse happen the majority of times it's a close call. Hence 90% of those clients baught a new pair when SR was needed. Its actually of no benefit to make the skate bigger and add foams for the Factory only more cost to them. 

I know Rob will get it right.

 

I truly believe the scanner may not have been calibrated correctly or lighting issue or something else. 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by smu
misspelling

[Leif 161]

52 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I don't  think you're  following  me when it comes to the manufacturing process. My point is simple, the skate is not made from scratch. It's assembled from parts that are pre-made to fit a specific last. From scratch implies that ever piece is cut and made specifily for that customer. That would mean every boot was a complete one off. You can't sustain that at those costs, you just can't. 

As for last longer. Maybe you can prove it, it just sounds so far fetched. It's not like miles on a tire.

I do not know how the manufacturers make custom skates, but you are making assumptions. These days computer controlled cutters and CNC mills could allow full custom skates at reasonable prices. As to what a True do, who knows. I will soon speak to someone who has spoken with Bauer reps about their custom skates, and I am eager to hear her news. 

[stick9 891]

14 minutes ago, Leif said:

I do not know how the manufacturers make custom skates, but you are making assumptions. These days computer controlled cutters and CNC mills could allow full custom skates at reasonable prices. As to what a True do, who knows. I will soon speak to someone who has spoken with Bauer reps about their custom skates, and I am eager to hear her news. 

Do you have any idea how much that sort of equipment costs, it's not cheap. That doesn't even take into account the space needed, the power to run it and the people to operate it. Again, I highly doubt that's how they are doing things.

It makes way more sense from both a business and manfacturering standpoint to assemble skates using off the shelf parts. Why is this so offensive to people? Its actually pretty realistic. I'm not knocking them, they need to make money too. I wish people in this thread would be a bit more realistic.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I'm just curious as to what pieces you think are precut? The main part of the boot is molded / Wrapped around the foot mold every time. Then the side panels then the eyelits. What pieces are you saying are "put togrther"?

[smu 29]

On 11/8/2018 at 8:08 PM, stick9 said:

I'm actually shocked someone gave them a third shot after that experience.

Well I want a pair of skates that fits me well plus to fix my pronation issue that I have been fighting for over 10 years.

When you could speak with Rob you knew what you were going to get. But, now I need to know how the pronation issue is addressed if at all except the stiff boot that did help me the couple of times I had the Trues on. Can the sole have a raised arch, can we still have Foam Shoe boxes sent to us or does the walls of the skate do it all and then break down later. As I mentioned and another member did also, how does the scanner give a proper arch support for over pronation when your foot is scanned flatfooted? That's what you get with the scanner, I don't know how they can make that work backwards into an arch!

Edited November 10, 2018 by smu
couple speeling errord and a double word removed

[CigarScott 132]

17 hours ago, smu said:

The last time I talked to Rob I could not afford the skates yet! Then True took over and things changed. I also was waiting for a scanner to come to town when they were available in places I have never heard of before. I live in the Halifax, Nova Scotia area all within 20 miles of the birthplaces of Crosby, MacKinnon and Marchand yet we did not qualify for a scanner until late last year, go figure!

When you could talk to Rob, there were more things offered to customized tour skates than now. For pronation, you could have your holders moved medially and adding more to the medial side of the skate-bed (like a built in orthotic) as well and the stiffness alone was supposed to help those that were not too bad off. Rob even offered to send some "form boxes" to me, like the kind the podiatrists use when they take impressions of your feet for getting orthotics. The cost then was $80, but worth it if you wanted the skates perfect. . Also you could get you choice of steel, holders or just buy the boot and have the rest done at your LHS and more.

Now there seems to be no personal input from the buyer when the scanner is used, the LHS would have directed True of your specific problems and hopefully convey the proper understanding of what is needed. I am sure my LHS did give all of my information as he knew me well. But, with all this I still got someone else's skates and they were returned with another scan. The same pair of skates came back with stuffing in the toe! To my worst surprise, even if they did fit, all the issues with the rivets, crooked holders and width were not even addressed and returned as if they were new skates! 

They are going back now for a second time and asking True, to please read the instructions attached to our third scan!

 

I would shoot him an email (you can PM me for his address if you don't have it any longer). My second pair had its holders moved in medially (learned a new word today) which I doubt would have been done if I didn't email back and forth with Rob. It seems that the lingering theme is that people have their LHS employee enter notes into their scan file but True either ignores them or underestimates how much adjusting that they have to do to built the skate.

If you watch this video, you can see some of the lasts that SVH has made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBUfeofOa90. I'm sure that they're refined the process since 2014 but I doubt that they're 3D printing like Bauer is and are still using these lasts as template then tweak things to represent a particular customer's foot.

[Leif 161]

6 hours ago, stick9 said:

Do you have any idea how much that sort of equipment costs, it's not cheap. That doesn't even take into account the space needed, the power to run it and the people to operate it. Again, I highly doubt that's how they are doing things.

It makes way more sense from both a business and manfacturering standpoint to assemble skates using off the shelf parts. Why is this so offensive to people? Its actually pretty realistic. I'm not knocking them, they need to make money too. I wish people in this thread would be a bit more realistic.

How much does it cost? Bauer and CCM have invested in CNC milling machines for their custom skate lasts, so clearly they think that sales will recoup the cost over time. And I suspect that a custom cutting machine is cheaper than a CNC mill. Not sure anyone is offended, or unrealistic. And isn't space fairly cheap in Quebec? As to people to operate such equipment, the hard work is in programming the machines. Once that is done, costs per unit can be reduced. 

But I have no inside information. 

[smu 29]

6 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I would shoot him an email (you can PM me for his address if you don't have it any longer). My second pair had its holders moved in medially (learned a new word today) which I doubt would have been done if I didn't email back and forth with Rob. It seems that the lingering theme is that people have their LHS employee enter notes into their scan file but True either ignores them or underestimates how much adjusting that they have to do to built the skate.

If you watch this video, you can see some of the lasts that SVH has made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBUfeofOa90. I'm sure that they're refined the process since 2014 but I doubt that they're 3D printing like Bauer is and are still using these lasts as template then tweak things to represent a particular customer's foot.

Thanks, I had Rob's email, but it maybe old by now. Please PM me with it so I will have the proper address. 

I am intrigued that you had your holders shifted medially as Scott once told me (I have that email) only in "extreme circumstances" would they move the holders. So what would extreme mean to you? How bad were your symptoms, how do your skates work now and how was the the amount of change determined? Has your pronation changed any? (there is more below on pronation).

I have watched the video many times and have kept a copy of this and two others that were still available. One is where Scott tells his story of why he started to make skates and it simply was that he had flat feet and saw the need not only to make something for himself, but for others, it seemed that this was the predominant area of concern, over-pronatioto. Since I have pronation issues this caught my interest with great enthusiasm with Scott appearing to be promoting this aspect plus the perfect fit and now that I know I need a narrow skates "the perfect fit" is even more important.
Maybe VH still has these lasts who knows or who would tell, nobody unless VH/True say otherwise, I guess!
Back to the video(s), these are why I wanted the VH skate to start with. Now I am not sure what you do for over-pronation. The very poorly made pair that I got (twice) is not a true (sorry) interpretation of the skate I received, in that it was so far off the mark of a well made skate it was impossible to give any report except "bad"! I saw nothing else in the boot for pronation except stiff sidewalls that apparently worked since it did away with my pronation issues, the couple of times I tried them. Although, the wide and large skate with holder/blade issues were not the best to try.
When talking with Rob on pronation there was at least three things that could be done,
1) a built in orthotic was available,
2) the "send me the foam impression box" and
3) we will move the holders in "extreme circumstances" and that is a quote from memory, but I do have the email if it needs to be checked.
I would have thought they could figure out where your center of gravity should be and move the holders accordingly, but maybe that is too difficult to do or time consuming. Maybe things have changed since late 2017 after True took over. I can't remember now if just the stiff boot was mentioned, but it seems to work, but for how long before that breaks down?
Again, I bring up the scanner method that has your foot in the flatfooted pose, this has been mentioned by a few in this forum and in particular by one member I have been closely following and he had made the comment some time ago about the problem with the scanner giving any results other than a flatfooted image of your foot. How can a foot-bed be made from this unless comments are sent along and even then how accurate would they be unless the "foam box" was used? i

I Googled this "How does a poditrist make a mold for orthotics by using the boxes of foam" and got some good results, there are three videos that are set up part way down the page and I selected the middle one, but the sound won't work, but the explanation does. The other videos do things in a different way, but all do something to make the arch leave an impression and not that of a flat foot!

I can't see how a scanner can be any help with pronation issues, they are done flat-footed thus useless in my opinion and other more skilled in this area than me!

Cheers!

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, smu said:

Thanks, I had Rob's email, but it maybe old by now. Please PM me with it so I will have the proper address. 

I am intrigued that you had your holders shifted medially as Scott once told me (I have that email) only in "extreme circumstances" would they move the holders. So what would extreme mean to you? How bad were your symptoms, how do your skates work now and how was the the amount of change determined? Has your pronation changed any? (there is more below on pronation).

I have watched the video many times and have kept a copy of this and two others that were still available. One is where Scott tells his story of why he started to make skates and it simply was that he had flat feet and saw the need not only to make something for himself, but for others, it seemed that this was the predominant area of concern, over-pronatioto. Since I have pronation issues this caught my interest with great enthusiasm with Scott appearing to be promoting this aspect plus the perfect fit and now that I know I need a narrow skates "the perfect fit" is even more important.
Maybe VH still has these lasts who knows or who would tell, nobody unless VH/True say otherwise, I guess!
Back to the video(s), these are why I wanted the VH skate to start with. Now I am not sure what you do for over-pronation. The very poorly made pair that I got (twice) is not a true (sorry) interpretation of the skate I received, in that it was so far off the mark of a well made skate it was impossible to give any report except "bad"! I saw nothing else in the boot for pronation except stiff sidewalls that apparently worked since it did away with my pronation issues, the couple of times I tried them. Although, the wide and large skate with holder/blade issues were not the best to try.
When talking with Rob on pronation there was at least three things that could be done,
1) a built in orthotic was available,
2) the "send me the foam impression box" and
3) we will move the holders in "extreme circumstances" and that is a quote from memory, but I do have the email if it needs to be checked.
I would have thought they could figure out where your center of gravity should be and move the holders accordingly, but maybe that is too difficult to do or time consuming. Maybe things have changed since late 2017 after True took over. I can't remember now if just the stiff boot was mentioned, but it seems to work, but for how long before that breaks down?
Again, I bring up the scanner method that has your foot in the flatfooted pose, this has been mentioned by a few in this forum and in particular by one member I have been closely following and he had made the comment some time ago about the problem with the scanner giving any results other than a flatfooted image of your foot. How can a foot-bed be made from this unless comments are sent along and even then how accurate would they be unless the "foam box" was used? i

I Googled this "How does a poditrist make a mold for orthotics by using the boxes of foam" and got some good results, there are three videos that are set up part way down the page and I selected the middle one, but the sound won't work, but the explanation does. The other videos do things in a different way, but all do something to make the arch leave an impression and not that of a flat foot!

I can't see how a scanner can be any help with pronation issues, they are done flat-footed thus useless in my opinion and other more skilled in this area than me!

Cheers!

Your arch collapses to some degree when you put weight on it. When you walk, lunge, or even stand there. The position your foot is scanned with true is the position where you are in a stride position or as similar to one as possible. There must be a reason they do the scans this way and it isn't done just because. Yes there have been some bad fits and unhappy customers but your case seems to be the exception. When orthotics are made your foots pattern are taken while you walk, where weight is placed on your foot/arch.

Imagine if the boot was made with the height of your arch with no weight bearing. The arch on the soles of the boot would be pretty high and I guarantee that your arches would be excruciating from being dug into while skating 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Sniper9

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

You guys realize the scanner.program being used by both True and CCM is a program developed originally to make orthodix right? And that when I first saw it was at my podiatrist office in like 2012. Same way CCM does them now. So personally I'm really kinda confused why all this uproar about othodics and old school crush boxes? 

 

Again for SMU I think your lhs may have been the error not the factory.  How many skates have they fitted?

 

And I'm not defending the factory as I have had mistakes made but easily rectified. But I think saying the shop has no liability is not correct if they have limited fitting experience with the scanner.  As mentioned by numerous people Rob will sort it out. As for the crush boxes... why not just go to a local orthodox place and buy a set and send them. they are like 12 bucks? Have Rob send you a label and ship them in. Then they can compare the scan to the box. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by oldtrainerguy28

[smu 29]

20 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

You guys realize the scanner.program being used by both True and CCM is a program developed originally to make orthodix right? And that when I first saw it was at my podiatrist office in like 2012. Same way CCM does them now. So personally I'm really kinda confused why all this uproar about othodics and old school crush boxes? 

 

Again for SMU I think your lhs may have been the error not the factory.  How many skates have they fitted?

 

And I'm not defending the factory as I have had mistakes made but easily rectified. But I think saying the shop has no liability is not correct if they have limited fitting experience with the scanner.  As mentioned by numerous people Rob will sort it out. As for the crush boxes... why not just go to a local orthodox place and buy a set and send them. they are like 12 bucks? Have Rob send you a label and ship them in. Then they can compare the scan to the box. 

 

 

Short and sweet, we not only sent the first scan. But also a second scan after getting my “fixed pair” back with no corrections to my holders at all, crooked and misaligned with the blade bowed because of it.  True made no comments about the very wide heel pocket either when I have a narrow feet. The space was abnormally large, not to mention that I did not want a skate that was too long which this one was.

We get the skates back, a first and second time and never any mention that the scan could be off and as well no changes were made to the ill fitting hardware, let alone the excessive length and width of the skates! Now the are going back with a third time with instructions I hope they read this time. Did you hear me? This is the third pair going back!

Edited November 10, 2018 by smu
Spelling and adjustments & changes for easier reading

[Stewie 721]

1 hour ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

You guys realize the scanner.program being used by both True and CCM is a program developed originally to make orthodix right? And that when I first saw it was at my podiatrist office in like 2012. Same way CCM does them now. So personally I'm really kinda confused why all this uproar about othodics and old school crush boxes? 

 

Again for SMU I think your lhs may have been the error not the factory.  How many skates have they fitted?

 

And I'm not defending the factory as I have had mistakes made but easily rectified. But I think saying the shop has no liability is not correct if they have limited fitting experience with the scanner.  As mentioned by numerous people Rob will sort it out. As for the crush boxes... why not just go to a local orthodox place and buy a set and send them. they are like 12 bucks? Have Rob send you a label and ship them in. Then they can compare the scan to the box. 

 

 

I think he’s faulting true because their “fix” was just to use padded material to stuff the toe box. I’m pretty sure the LHS didn’t say “just stuff material in the toe box”

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 minute ago, smu said:

Short and sweet, we not only sent the first scan. But also a second scan after getting my “fixed pair” back with no corrections to my holders at all, crooked and misaligned with the blade bowed because of it.  Trure made no comments about the very wide heel pocket either when o have a very narrow foot. The space was abnormally large not to mention that I did not want a skat that was too long and this was.

we get the skates back and the have two sand and no one says the scans were wrong.

now the are going back with a third scan with instructions I hope the read this time. Did you hear m? This is the third pair going back!

If the scanner isn't calibrated properly you could send 1000 scans. I would have them recalibrate the scanner. Send crush boxes and old school drawings and solve it once and for all. Not sure why your being short with me just trying to help. I'm pretty sure I am in the top number of fits .

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

3 minutes ago, Stewie said:

I think he’s faulting true because their “fix” was just to use padded material to stuff the toe box. I’m pretty sure the LHS didn’t say “just stuff material in the toe box”

And again they are going off what they have. Check the scanner first. 

[CigarScott 132]

Prior to taking up skating, I was a bad supinator (opposite of pronating) in my right foot so I had the local podiatrist make me some skate orthotics for supinating which hurt like hell wearing since it exacerbated the pronation. I offered to make molds of my feet using this kit (https://accu-cast.us/lifecasting-kits/foot-casting/) and ship them to Winnipeg but I was told that I couldn't do that. The point of this is that if they made skates based on regular molds and what info I provided that they may have moved the holders outward for my supination would would have been terrible for me.

I have no idea how they decide how far to move the holders in. It looks to my untrained eye that they moved them in as far they could while there being room in the footbed for the rivets to bite properly.

[smu 29]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

If the scanner isn't calibrated properly you could send 1000 scans. I would have them recalibrate the scanner. Send crush boxes and old school drawings and solve it once and for all. Not sure why your being short with me just trying to help. I'm pretty sure I am in the top number of fits .

Sorry for that, I am trying to fix my lawnmower and do the leaves (mulch) for the last time this year and I am also frustrated that True did nothing with my first very bad pair of skates I received and then nothing the second time?

I would really like your thoughts on the pronation issue and a better understanding of just what best way pronation can be addressed so it is done properly a third time?

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by smu
Spelling and grammer!

[smu 29]

2 hours ago, smu said:

Sorry for that, I am trying to fix my lawnmower and do the leaves (mulch) for the last time this year and I am also frustrated that True did nothing with my first very bad pair of skates I received and then nothing the second time?

I would really like your thoughts on the pronation issue and a better understanding of just what best way pronation can be addressed so it is done properly a third time?

Cheers

Again, my apologies, I was short with you and usually not this way at all.

I have photos that I would love to pass along just after I got the new skates the first time, they were not my skates for sure, the scanner could not make such a large error in the width from my size 5 Bauer to the 6 or 7 that I received. I say it this way as on the bottom of the insole had a 7 on the first pair and I would believe it could have been a size 7 when you see it next to my size 5 Bauer. Then I get the next pair back with the dense foam in the toe box and now have an insole that indicates a size 6. They tell us they do not go by sizes! 

But, both skates they sent back to me are identical with no other issues corrected at all except for the stuffing in the toe. If they did not read our problems perhaps somebody is not reading the scanning material properly.

As you know pronation is my issue and what do True offer now as normal fixing, just the stiffness? What about if it is more difficult would I get automatic molding from the scan? Would you explain this ones as how they can read the scanner done this way. You must be right that they can and the rest of us are questioning it, but if we understand it then that's it. The boxes are another good idea, but where do I fit. I am not sure if just a small amount of arch lift or I should say heel lift will do mine along with the stiff boot. Should ny LHS call Rob?

Thanks!

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

6 hours ago, smu said:

Again, my apologies, I was short with you and usually not this way at all.

I have photos that I would love to pass along just after I got the new skates the first time, they were not my skates for sure, the scanner could not make such a large error in the width from my size 5 Bauer to the 6 or 7 that I received. I say it this way as on the bottom of the insole had a 7 on the first pair and I would believe it could have been a size 7 when you see it next to my size 5 Bauer. Then I get the next pair back with the dense foam in the toe box and now have an insole that indicates a size 6. They tell us they do not go by sizes! 

But, both skates they sent back to me are identical with no other issues corrected at all except for the stuffing in the toe. If they did not read our problems perhaps somebody is not reading the scanning material properly.

As you know pronation is my issue and what do True offer now as normal fixing, just the stiffness? What about if it is more difficult would I get automatic molding from the scan? Would you explain this ones as how they can read the scanner done this way. You must be right that they can and the rest of us are questioning it, but if we understand it then that's it. The boxes are another good idea, but where do I fit. I am not sure if just a small amount of arch lift or I should say heel lift will do mine along with the stiff boot. Should ny LHS call Rob?

Thanks!

Your shop should have called Rob 10..mins after you realized the difference in fit. Rob would have had a return label made and a new pair in production asap. You could have sent back tracings etc at that point and solved this dispute ages ago. 

[smu 29]

4 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Your shop should have called Rob 10..mins after you realized the difference in fit. Rob would have had a return label made and a new pair in production asap. You could have sent back tracings etc at that point and solved this dispute ages ago. 

Thanks for the comment about Rob, but I am in the hands of my LHS and don't wan to try and tell them what to do. He definitely knows my problems and I thought he made it clear what my issues were. I will talk with him tomorrow (Saturday depending on what time it is and where you are) and get it done. The call may have to wait until Monday I guess.

Thanks once again