VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Hills 712]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:14 PM, Torikkun said:

Hi all! Long time lurker of this thread and MSH in general on/off over the years. I'm hoping to get some validation / confirmation for how comfortable / well these skates should fit.

Tldr; Is the fit on these customs supposed to be so good it's almost like wearing sneakers? A well fitted boot? Does this change if the skates are laced up versus not? Is any "breaking in" supposed to be needed?

When I ordered the 2nd pair, I did a re-scan and we talked about making a note to have the new skates made smaller. These are definitely smaller... but now I'm feeling like my 1st pair is more comfortable. 😰 My toes can feel the front of the boot, but I'm not sure if it's too much since my toes distinctly feel the curve on the bottom-front of the boot. I think the width is better since I don't feel like my feet have room to slide side to side. I do wish there was a slightly more room in the forefoot, but I think this could be easily stretched? The heel lock on these is definitely improved, but only when I lace the skates up. If I try to skate with these unlaced, it still feels like my foot could easily "walk out" of the boot if I lift my foot up too much... I can also still easily put my foot into the boot without twisting my foot.

My other big problem with the heel is that there is hard rubbing in the infamous Bauer bump/Haglund's deformity area. This discomfort does go away after I skate it bit, but I only think it's my foot getting numb to the pain. I've always had this issue with retail skates, which is why I couldn't wear retail Bauers and had to go with CCM. The ankle padding again, feels like it's too high up, so I'm not sure if that's contributing to this hard discomfort. Is the ankle padding supposed to go low enough to cradle the heel where a Bauer bump would form, so that the skates ARE comfortable? (This is what I've always thought, but maybe I'm wrong?)

Between this and the length issue, my feet are uncomfortable to the point where after lacing up, I just can't wait to get these off my feet. 😞 I forced myself to skate the full public skate sessions to make sure I gave these a fair shake. I skipped trying to wear these in a game since I could imagine myself just wanting to rip them off my feet after one shift.

I don't think the shop is doing anything wrong since I've got buddies who got True customs from the same shop and they all love their skates. Maybe I need to be more explicit with my fit issues? I wasn't painfully explicit after the 1st pair since it was hard to tell with the whole boot just being too big, but now that I've gotten a 2nd to compare the two... it seems a little easier to do.

Boots and shoes will always be more comfortable and IMO skates will never get there simply because boots and shoes stretch and have give to them. I love my True customs and they have allowed me to skate without foot pain, but there is no way I am hiking 30kms in them like I do in my boots.

If your toes are touching the ends, grab a pair of Superfeet and put them in. My toes were jammed on my customs, Superfeet pulled them back enough to get basically the perfect fit. If Superfeet pull your toes back, chances are you won't need more room in the forefoot either.

If you can slide your feet out of the skates AGAIN when unlaced... I am questioning how these were baked. Even when purposely pulling the eyelets outwards to open up the ankle so I can get more forward flex and get the skates on and off easier it still takes effort to get my foot in there. My heel will move a bit when not laced, but if you wrap the heel when baking it should lock you in pretty good.

I don't see why you would want the ankle padding to cover the Haglund's? Isn't the best way to treat that almost removing all the space around it so it won't rub against anything? I've known people that have basically created a donut of padding around their issue so it sits in a pocket but the ankle is secured.

[Torikkun 6]

1 hour ago, Hills said:

Boots and shoes will always be more comfortable and IMO skates will never get there simply because boots and shoes stretch and have give to them. I love my True customs and they have allowed me to skate without foot pain, but there is no way I am hiking 30kms in them like I do in my boots.

If your toes are touching the ends, grab a pair of Superfeet and put them in. My toes were jammed on my customs, Superfeet pulled them back enough to get basically the perfect fit. If Superfeet pull your toes back, chances are you won't need more room in the forefoot either.

If you can slide your feet out of the skates AGAIN when unlaced... I am questioning how these were baked. Even when purposely pulling the eyelets outwards to open up the ankle so I can get more forward flex and get the skates on and off easier it still takes effort to get my foot in there. My heel will move a bit when not laced, but if you wrap the heel when baking it should lock you in pretty good.

I don't see why you would want the ankle padding to cover the Haglund's? Isn't the best way to treat that almost removing all the space around it so it won't rub against anything? I've known people that have basically created a donut of padding around their issue so it sits in a pocket but the ankle is secured.

Totally appreciate you reading my whole novel, LOL! I actually had a response typed out, but your post got me thinking about the fit again, so I went to try them on some more.

I agree, the stiffness of skates makes them less comfy, I just remember before realizing I was jamming my foot into skates too small, I never felt any hard pain--at most the skates were tight. Before I realized the 68k's I had were too small, those things were so comfy out of the box--I didn't think I needed to bake them. (I went away from those skates and to customs since they softened over time quick, so I lost heel lock.)

The first thing I did was actually switch to my Superfeet insoles. 😂 The True insoles feel like the heel cup is too narrow, so my Superfeets were more comfortable. I just tried the skates on a million times again... and I found that the reason my toes are jamming in the front is due to my foot slipping forward. If I can keep my foot all the way back in the boot, then the big toe just barely feathers the toe cap. I also have to make sure I really bend my knees and flex my ankles to keep them back in the boot. If I relax any of those, then my foot slides forward and jams the front. (This is probably why I never had an issue in my 1st customs. They're longer, so even if my foot slips forward, it wasn't enough to touch the front of the boot.)

This foot slippage leads me to another revelation... I think this is the reason why I'm not getting heel lock. If my foot is slipping forward, then my heel isn't actually in the heel cup. If I tie my skates all the way up and crank down on the laces, I don't really feel any heel lift, but then how are you supposed to have increased ankle flexion? I thought with customs, the lateral fit would be so good, you'd essentially not need the pressure from the tongue and laces to keep your foot locked into the boot.

I think these were baked right, but maybe they need baked again? It's why I came to ask people for their other experiences. Reading through this thread, plus other offline people, everyone has trouble getting their skates on/off because of how tight/form fitting they are. I actually had them lace it all the way up (minus 2 eyelets), plus do the wrap on the heel and forefoot just from that being needed for the first pair of skates. On my first pair, for the 3rd/4th bake I actually brought in clamps and had them crank down on them in the heel area, but that still didn't help because I think it was just overall too big.

In trying them on again just now, I did the lipstick trick I've seen here and it turns out, I'm not getting irritation in the Haglund's area. It's lower where the heel bone rounds out the most--so maybe I just need a deeper heel pocket?

Like you just said, for people with Haglund's / accessory navicular / other bony protrusions, you want to form a donut of padding around the bump so it doesn't rub against anything. If you punch out the space but the protrusion is still rubbing against the hard carbon frame of the boot, your foot eventually develops a callous or it just hurts too much. I developed a pretty big callous around one accessory navicular, but it went away after switching to the 68k's and customs.

 

[Hills 712]

6 minutes ago, Torikkun said:

The True insoles feel like the heel cup is too narrow, so my Superfeets were more comfortable. I just tried the skates on a million times again... and I found that the reason my toes are jamming in the front is due to my foot slipping forward. If I can keep my foot all the way back in the boot, then the big toe just barely feathers the toe cap. I also have to make sure I really bend my knees and flex my ankles to keep them back in the boot. If I relax any of those, then my foot slides forward and jams the front. (This is probably why I never had an issue in my 1st customs. They're longer, so even if my foot slips forward, it wasn't enough to touch the front of the boot.)

This foot slippage leads me to another revelation... I think this is the reason why I'm not getting heel lock. If my foot is slipping forward, then my heel isn't actually in the heel cup. If I tie my skates all the way up and crank down on the laces, I don't really feel any heel lift, but then how are you supposed to have increased ankle flexion? I thought with customs, the lateral fit would be so good, you'd essentially not need the pressure from the tongue and laces to keep your foot locked into the boot.

I feel like this is an important piece to look at. Superfeet should REALLY help with your foot sliding forward and moving. When I put mine in, it basically locks the arch backwards in place. Which Superfeet do you have and what size on them (They should have a letter size) and what size is your shoes?

I still have to tie my skates tight at the top, but it isn't to stop my foot from sliding forward and locking the heel, it is because I don't like movement in my ankles and want that area to be tight.

[Torikkun 6]

5 minutes ago, Hills said:

I feel like this is an important piece to look at. Superfeet should REALLY help with your foot sliding forward and moving. When I put mine in, it basically locks the arch backwards in place. Which Superfeet do you have and what size on them (They should have a letter size) and what size is your shoes?

I still have to tie my skates tight at the top, but it isn't to stop my foot from sliding forward and locking the heel, it is because I don't like movement in my ankles and want that area to be tight.

I have the Superfeet Comfort Insoles--so there's not much arch support in these. What I loved about them was they cupped my heel nice and helped with some of the lateral slop in my 1st customs. They're size B (skate size 3-4). I wear a women's size 7, but measure as a 6-6.5 in a men's Brannock. If I were to buy shoes from the men's section at say Adidas, it'd have to be a size 5. In shoes, my forefoot width is probably closer to a C and the heel B.

When trying on the skates again just now, I found that the only way my feet didn't slide forward is if I was barefoot and my feet warmed up. I really don't want to skate barefoot though, haha.

I have tried the Superfeet Carbon years past and couldn't wear them because the arch support felt like it was stabbing the bottom of my foot. I've tried other Superfeet insoles and always had the same foot stabbing issue. I know I pronate some and have pretty flat arches (but not to the point of plantar fasciitis), so that's probably why I get the foot stabbing pain.

[Hills 712]

1 minute ago, Torikkun said:

I have the Superfeet Comfort Insoles--so there's not much arch support in these. What I loved about them was they cupped my heel nice and helped with some of the lateral slop in my 1st customs. They're size B (skate size 3-4). I wear a women's size 7, but measure as a 6-6.5 in a men's Brannock. If I were to buy shoes from the men's section at say Adidas, it'd have to be a size 5. In shoes, my forefoot width is probably closer to a C and the heel B.

When trying on the skates again just now, I found that the only way my feet didn't slide forward is if I was barefoot and my feet warmed up. I really don't want to skate barefoot though, haha.

I have tried the Superfeet Carbon years past and couldn't wear them because the arch support felt like it was stabbing the bottom of my foot. I've tried other Superfeet insoles and always had the same foot stabbing issue. I know I pronate some and have pretty flat arches (but not to the point of plantar fasciitis), so that's probably why I get the foot stabbing pain.

Superfeet Comfort makes a lot of sense then. They don't really offer the benefits of pulling the feet back and locking your foot in place like the Carbons do.

I would consider looking hard at the Carbons again, especially because they should have their 60 day guarantee on them if they don't work. But don't worry about the skate size on the box and look for 2 things. Ensure your heel is fully in the heel cup without the fat pad of your foot going over the edges, and the 2nd is to try and make the arch lined up so your foot can't collapse down and elongate. You more often than not have to trim Superfeet to fit the proper foot size.

[Torikkun 6]

10 minutes ago, Hills said:

Superfeet Comfort makes a lot of sense then. They don't really offer the benefits of pulling the feet back and locking your foot in place like the Carbons do.

I would consider looking hard at the Carbons again, especially because they should have their 60 day guarantee on them if they don't work. But don't worry about the skate size on the box and look for 2 things. Ensure your heel is fully in the heel cup without the fat pad of your foot going over the edges, and the 2nd is to try and make the arch lined up so your foot can't collapse down and elongate. You more often than not have to trim Superfeet to fit the proper foot size.

Ah, so you're saying to try on the different sizes but look for the size where the arch lines up? Now that you're mentioning the arch locking backwards in place, I think I remember the arches on other insoles I tried not lining up well... I looked into potentially getting custom orthotics because all the off the shelf stuff just wasn't right...

[Hills 712]

5 minutes ago, Torikkun said:

Ah, so you're saying to try on the different sizes but look for the size where the arch lines up? Now that you're mentioning the arch locking backwards in place, I think I remember the arches on other insoles I tried not lining up well... I looked into potentially getting custom orthotics because all the off the shelf stuff just wasn't right...

When fitting for them, the 1st thing we looked for was the heel fully placed inside the heel cup, then you'd ensure the arch is comfortable with the size you chose. You start with it outside the skate to get fit, but make sure on the arch part once it is in the skate and trimmed to fit.

[Torikkun 6]

2 minutes ago, Hills said:

When fitting for them, the 1st thing we looked for was the heel fully placed inside the heel cup, then you'd ensure the arch is comfortable with the size you chose. You start with it outside the skate to get fit, but make sure on the arch part once it is in the skate and trimmed to fit.

I may have to try them again then. Whenever I was trying on the insoles, we always just went for the one closest to the skate size and trimmed that to fit. I never tried on the larger sizes and focused on the arch fit. Is there a good way to get the same load bearing on them as when skating? I found a lot of times, I would try the insoles on in store, with and without my skates, and they would seemingly fit right. But then when I would skate on them, there would instantly be a ton of pain in the arch.

[Hills 712]

We just did fits with people standing up, then cut the Superfeet to fit, baked the skates and threw the Superfeet back in and had them do up their skates again. I know it takes some people to adjust and it wasn't unheard of for it to take about 5 skates to get used to them. So we always pushed people to try more than once.

[Torikkun 6]

4 minutes ago, Hills said:

We just did fits with people standing up, then cut the Superfeet to fit, baked the skates and threw the Superfeet back in and had them do up their skates again. I know it takes some people to adjust and it wasn't unheard of for it to take about 5 skates to get used to them. So we always pushed people to try more than once.

I think I'll have to try the Superfeet again and focus on the arch more like you suggested. I just came back from a stick and puck and I was able to skate with the new skates the whole time. I definitely noticed that the arch support doesn't seem to extend all the way forward. It feels like there's a gap between where the arch support ends and the ball of my foot, so a lot of the weight ended up on the ball of foot and it was very sore by the end.

In the past, I couldn't try more than once since the stabbing arch pain was so bad. 😂 I'd loosen my laces which would help some, but then I'd have a skate that was too loose, haha.

[Sniper9 530]

Not reading that entire post but from what I read.

- yes skates need to be tied up for proper heel lock and even proper fit. 

- see if there's foam added to the end of the toecaps (almost certain there is). If so remove it and that will provide you with the added length you want. 

- after the skates break in a bit and the foams compress slightly it may be enough to create the added length you want. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Is there anyone who took our the stock footbeds and replaced them with something else? I'm thinking that the stock FBs are too think for me but not sure if I should spring for something else.

[jgold47 12]

17 minutes ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Is there anyone who took our the stock footbeds and replaced them with something else? I'm thinking that the stock FBs are too think for me but not sure if I should spring for something else.

I tried speed plates but went back to the stock insoles.  They are perfect. 

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Is there anyone who took our the stock footbeds and replaced them with something else? I'm thinking that the stock FBs are too think for me but not sure if I should spring for something else.

I don't like the stock insoles one bit. Although I haven't tried the genetix or the tf ones. The red insole combo I'm not a fan of bc it was too soft. I had superfeet in my trues and they were decent. I've stuck with speed plates bc I love them. Makes a huge difference for me but it's all preference.  

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

2 hours ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Is there anyone who took our the stock footbeds and replaced them with something else? I'm thinking that the stock FBs are too think for me but not sure if I should spring for something else.

Technically you shouldn't need anything beside the stock footbeds because the skate arch should be custom to your foot arch.  But then again, some people like to change their insoles too.

[Sniper9 530]

2 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Technically you shouldn't need anything beside the stock footbeds because the skate arch should be custom to your foot arch.  But then again, some people like to change their insoles too.

For me it has nothing to do with the shape of the insole etc. It's the sponginess of the stock footbeds I can't stand. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

10 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Technically you shouldn't need anything beside the stock footbeds because the skate arch should be custom to your foot arch.  But then again, some people like to change their insoles too.

Yea, this is what I figured. I can still work the boot to punch out the sore spots. Just wanted to make.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:44 AM, Sniper9 said:

For me it has nothing to do with the shape of the insole etc. It's the sponginess of the stock footbeds I can't stand. 

Thats why I prefer using the Bauer Speedplate in all of my skates. Provides a lot of direct feedback from the ice. 

[Sniper9 530]

On 11/25/2022 at 12:35 PM, Torikkun said:

I have the Superfeet Comfort Insoles--so there's not much arch support in these. What I loved about them was they cupped my heel nice and helped with some of the lateral slop in my 1st customs. They're size B (skate size 3-4). I wear a women's size 7, but measure as a 6-6.5 in a men's Brannock. If I were to buy shoes from the men's section at say Adidas, it'd have to be a size 5. In shoes, my forefoot width is probably closer to a C and the heel B.

When trying on the skates again just now, I found that the only way my feet didn't slide forward is if I was barefoot and my feet warmed up. I really don't want to skate barefoot though, haha.

I have tried the Superfeet Carbon years past and couldn't wear them because the arch support felt like it was stabbing the bottom of my foot. I've tried other Superfeet insoles and always had the same foot stabbing issue. I know I pronate some and have pretty flat arches (but not to the point of plantar fasciitis), so that's probably why I get the foot stabbing pain.

Superfeet has not grip on the insoles which I don't like. It's smooth fabric that depending on what kind of socks you wear it can be pretty slick.  Speedplates have areas that have silicone grip that prevents ur feet from sliding. Even stock Bauer footbeds have this. Not sure why not all footbeds haven't adopted this. It actually helps. 

If you want more flexion but also wants to tie your laces right, try dropping the top eyelet. It did wonders for me. If I laces my trues up all the way it feels like I'm in a cast. Dropping the eyelet was night and day for me. It allowed more forward flexion and in turn made the heel lock better as it allowed my ankle to flex had the heel pushed into the heel pocket. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:32 PM, Sniper9 said:

Superfeet has not grip on the insoles which I don't like. It's smooth fabric that depending on what kind of socks you wear it can be pretty slick.  Speedplates have areas that have silicone grip that prevents ur feet from sliding. Even stock Bauer footbeds have this. Not sure why not all footbeds haven't adopted this. It actually helps. 

You can add grip to the insoles using things like Gorilla Construction Adhesive. I do this for anything that I want to add grip to such as the forearm inside of the elbow pads. 

[Mimizk 114]

I've started using my 4th VH skates. These pair have completely granted my wishes. I'm really satisfied with them.

Especially "built in medial shims" solved problems that have caused by external shims which I have used on past my VH boots.
The compatibility between VH boots and CCM holders is also great.

No longer I don't feel any negative points except heavy weight.
 

 

Options:
1) Enhanced side wall protection
2) Metatarsal tongues
3) Built-in heel lift shims (+3mm)
4) Built-in medial shims (+3mm)
5) Additional instep volume control
6) CCM SpeedBlade XS holders 271
7) Sidas Conformable insoles
8) 72" unwaxed laces

[Sniper9 530]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:23 AM, VegasHockey said:

You can add grip to the insoles using things like Gorilla Construction Adhesive. I do this for anything that I want to add grip to such as the forearm inside of the elbow pads. 

I was thinking just simple 100% bathtub silicone. Or even shoe glue. 

[Westside 232]

2 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

I was thinking just simple 100% bathtub silicone. Or even shoe glue. 

Why not the rubber sock paint stuff? I’ve added this to base layers in the past 

https://www.amazon.com/Viva-Decor-Black-Liquid-fabric/dp/B004XGXOEQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=rubber+sock+paint&qid=1671914940&sr=8-1

[Sniper9 530]

4 hours ago, Westside said:

Why not the rubber sock paint stuff? I’ve added this to base layers in the past 

https://www.amazon.com/Viva-Decor-Black-Liquid-fabric/dp/B004XGXOEQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=rubber+sock+paint&qid=1671914940&sr=8-1

Didn't know this existed!! Must try. Thanks for this. 

[Mimizk 114]

Also I was confused by the mismatch between the genuine TRUE holders and VH boots' outsole.
Oppositely, compatibility with CCM XS holders is really good. It looks like "true" genuine holder for the VH boots.

+ genuine TRUE holders

+ CCM SpeedBlade XS holders