VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Santos L Halper 90]

2 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Very possible. I would do another bake. Also, I never recommend lacing up the skate to the top eyelet when baking. It provides too much wrap at the top of the foot and limits forward flex. When you then use the skates the heel can lift a little due to not being in the proper skating position from when you baked. 

Outstanding.  Thanks for the tips.  I'm not on my skates today, so it's a perfect time for a rebake!

[Paddy 11]

Check out the clamp use at the end of this video. I'd think a little heat gun action and clamps could concentrate on the hell lock issue.

 

On mobile, hope the link works.

 

 

[CigarScott 132]

So my skates finally showed up Monday. I went to the rink pro shop to bake them and without any tweaking the skates weren't real pleasant to me overall. The bottom of my feet felt great as I finally have a skate that accommodate my flat feet but the heel was too tight, my toes were digging into the cap of the skates, my bunions and side of my big toes were digging into the sides of the toe cap, even after notating issues with them on photos when I got scanned and the top of the skates were digging on the top of my feet down by the toes.

After I emailing with True and skating on them in a stick & puck last night, I removed the red foot bed to add more volume, had my better half and her smaller hands remove the pads in the toe box, adjusted the tongue, did the tissue method on my bunions, big toes, and the top of the toes then rebaked them last night at home. I have hockey tonight and will know more as how much this helps. 

Even with the pain and discomfort last night, I noticed a huge improvement in forward flex, speed, and turn radius. I don't know if this is more due to the Step Steel being a huge improvement over the stock steel in the Nexus N7000, the boot design, or a combination of the two but I think, assuming I can get the pain and discomfort issues worked out, that it was a good purchase for me.

[VegasHockey 1260]

Looks like True/VH chnaged their carbon weave. 

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EWj3BgQSz2jigrkT8

[CigarScott 132]

24 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Looks like True/VH chnaged their carbon weave. 

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EWj3BgQSz2jigrkT8

That's what mine look like, too.

[VegasHockey 1260]

5 hours ago, CigarScott said:

So my skates finally showed up Monday. I went to the rink pro shop to bake them and without any tweaking the skates weren't real pleasant to me overall. The bottom of my feet felt great as I finally have a skate that accommodate my flat feet but the heel was too tight, my toes were digging into the cap of the skates, my bunions and side of my big toes were digging into the sides of the toe cap, even after notating issues with them on photos when I got scanned and the top of the skates were digging on the top of my feet down by the toes.

After I emailing with True and skating on them in a stick & puck last night, I removed the red foot bed to add more volume, had my better half and her smaller hands remove the pads in the toe box, adjusted the tongue, did the tissue method on my bunions, big toes, and the top of the toes then rebaked them last night at home. I have hockey tonight and will know more as how much this helps. 

Even with the pain and discomfort last night, I noticed a huge improvement in forward flex, speed, and turn radius. I don't know if this is more due to the Step Steel being a huge improvement over the stock steel in the Nexus N7000, the boot design, or a combination of the two but I think, assuming I can get the pain and discomfort issues worked out, that it was a good purchase for me.

That's awesome to hear. Once you get then dialed in they are very comfortable and offer great performance. Can you do me a favor and weight them please. Interested in knowing how much the new model weights in grams. 

[Santos L Halper 90]

25 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

That's awesome to hear. Once you get then dialed in they are very comfortable and offer great performance. Can you do me a favor and weight them please. Interested in knowing how much the new model weights in grams. 

Mine look exactly the same (Ordered July 25th, received August 13th).

They weigh 987g with both the red footbed and the stock True insole in them.  

Edit:  Weight is for a SINGLE skate.  I have size 272 Step blade holders and stock StepSteel runners.  By way of comparison, my old Bauer Total One NXGs (size 8.5 D, size 272 Tuuk LS2 holders, standard Bauer steel, standard Bauer insoles) weigh 816g per skate.  

Edited August 29, 2018 by Santos L Halper
Added pertinent information...

[Larry54 243]

9 hours ago, CigarScott said:

So my skates finally showed up Monday. I went to the rink pro shop to bake them and without any tweaking the skates weren't real pleasant to me overall. The bottom of my feet felt great as I finally have a skate that accommodate my flat feet but the heel was too tight, my toes were digging into the cap of the skates, my bunions and side of my big toes were digging into the sides of the toe cap, even after notating issues with them on photos when I got scanned and the top of the skates were digging on the top of my feet down by the toes.

After I emailing with True and skating on them in a stick & puck last night, I removed the red foot bed to add more volume, had my better half and her smaller hands remove the pads in the toe box, adjusted the tongue, did the tissue method on my bunions, big toes, and the top of the toes then rebaked them last night at home. I have hockey tonight and will know more as how much this helps. 

Even with the pain and discomfort last night, I noticed a huge improvement in forward flex, speed, and turn radius. I don't know if this is more due to the Step Steel being a huge improvement over the stock steel in the Nexus N7000, the boot design, or a combination of the two but I think, assuming I can get the pain and discomfort issues worked out, that it was a good purchase for me.

Do you wear fairly thick socks in your skates?

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, Larry54 said:

Do you wear fairly thick socks in your skates?

No, just these standard Bauer socks: https://www.hockeymonkey.com/catalog/product/view/id/338462

[Larry54 243]

1 hour ago, CigarScott said:

No, just these standard Bauer socks: https://www.hockeymonkey.com/catalog/product/view/id/338462

Those look like a good choice being as they describe a "thin, liner type" sock. So your issues are not due to excessively thick socks.

[CigarScott 132]

18 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

That's awesome to hear. Once you get then dialed in they are very comfortable and offer great performance. Can you do me a favor and weight them please. Interested in knowing how much the new model weights in grams. 

I'll weigh them tonight when I get home but they'll weigh a ton as I have giant feet with 306mm holders so I don't know what value their weights will have to you.

I skated in them last night after the adjustments and rebaking and it was worse than when I skated Tuesday. My bunions on my right foot hurt worse than before even before stepping on the ice; I had to go back and put my bunion sleeve on my right foot and my gel toe cap things on both big toes. The ball of my right foot hurt when it either didn't or not enough to notice on Tuesday; perhaps due to me removing the red insoles?

I have really wide feet and need deep toe box (which makes buying shoes fun) and I don't know what else can be done to make these feel comfortable. I did the tissue technique, removed the red footbeds in each to get more volume, removed the foam in the toe box to get more room, moved back the tongue and it made things worse. The front halves of both of my feet went numb after 30-45 minutes on the ice even with taking a knee or sitting on the bench for breaks.

Nicholas or anyone else, have you tried the new CCM insoles in your True skates? I saw that you tried the old Speed Plates in yours but was curious what you found worked from the aftermarket options. I'm tempted to pull my Superfeet with the added metatarsal pads out of my old skates and try them in these; thoughts?

I don't know what else to do. The areas that I have pain and volume issues are in the harder toe cap area. I don't know how you can just create more space in those areas since you typically can't punch those areas out. I made it abundantly clear when I got fitted that I had these issues and Chase at Pure Hockey notated everything and did all that he could to inform True of these issues. I spent the money on customs do I wouldn't have to keep wearing all kinds of pads on my feet and have to keep playing MacGyver with my skates so I'm a bit frustrated right now.

Edited August 30, 2018 by CigarScott
spelling

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

Superfeet Yellows will give you a little more length in the boot, since it will arch and "lift" your foot...but it'll only maybe give you 1/8" more clearance at max.  Plus, you'll also affect the mold of the boot to your arch by putting in Superfeet.

To get some more volume, you can request True send you a set of their thin tongues (typically what ships is the standard).  Of course you'll sacrifice protection, but if it helps with volume...

But it sounds like a bigger problem than just small tweaks, from what you describe.  I would call True (not Pure Hockey), and see if they can help you.  They are great in terms of customer service and will have a record of all your data to reference to.  Worst case, if everything they suggest doesn't help, they will always make you a 2nd set of skates (but not after they exhaust all options with you first)

CigarScott...at what time of day did you get scanned?

Edited August 30, 2018 by shoot_the_goalie

[VegasHockey 1260]

40 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

I'll weigh them tonight when I get home but they'll weigh a ton as I have giant feet with 306mm holders so I don't know what value their weights will have to you.

I skated in them last night after the adjustments and rebaking and it was worse than when I skated Tuesday. My bunions on my right foot hurt worse than before even before stepping on the ice; I had to go back and put my bunion sleeve on my right foot and my gel toe cap things on both big toes. The ball of my right foot hurt when it either didn't or not enough to notice on Tuesday; perhaps due to me removing the red insoles?

I have really wide feet and need deep toe box (which makes buying shoes fun) and I don't know what else can be done to make these feel comfortable. I did the tissue technique, removed the red footbeds in each to get more volume, removed the foam in the toe box to get more room, moved back the tongue and it made things worse. The front halves of both of my feet went numb after 30-45 minutes on the ice even with taking a knee or sitting on the bench for breaks.

Nicholas or anyone else, have you tried the new CCM insoles in your True skates? I saw that you tried the old Speed Plates in yours but was curious what you found worked from the aftermarket options. I'm tempted to pull my Superfeet with the added metatarsal pads out of my old skates and try them in these; thoughts?

I don't know what else to do. The areas that I have pain and volume issues are in the harder toe cap area. I don't know how you can just create more space in those areas since you typically can't punch those areas out. I made it abundantly clear when I got fitted that I had these issues and Chase at Pure Hockey notated everything and did all that he could to inform True of these issues. I spent the money on customs do I wouldn't have to keep wearing all kinds of pads on my feet and have to keep playing MacGyver with my skates so I'm a bit frustrated right now.

I've tried every insole in either my skate or working with customers. If you have a very high profile foot which requires a lot of volume an aftermarket footbed will likely cause issues. This is why I recommend the SpeedPlates, especially now that v 2.0 has been released. They conform to the boot and your arch and take up almost no space in the boot. 

Chase at Pure is an awesome guy. I work with him all the time. You need to be speaking with Rob or someone at True though, likely, they will ask you to send in the skates so they can make modifications to them, assuming they can modify the places you are having issues. Otherwise, they will make you a new set of skates. 

I understand your frustration if you documented, noted, and even provided pictures of the spots where you have foot issues. True really will work with you as best as possible to try and get it resolved. In my experience they have always gone above and beyond exceeding expectations for customer service. 

[CigarScott 132]

9 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Superfeet Yellows will give you a little more length in the boot, since it will arch and "lift" your foot...but it'll only maybe give you 1/8" more clearance at max.  Plus, you'll also affect the mold of the boot to your arch by putting in Superfeet.

To get some more volume, you can request True send you a set of their thin tongues (typically what ships is the standard).  Of course you'll sacrifice protection, but if it helps with volume...

But it sounds like a bigger problem than just small tweaks, from what you describe.  I would call True (not Pure Hockey), and see if they can help you.  They are great in terms of customer service and will have a record of all your data to reference to.  Worst case, if everything they suggest doesn't help, they will always make you a 2nd set of skates (but not after they exhaust all options with you first)

CigarScott...at what time of day did you get scanned?

I got scanned about 4pm.

I'm hesitant to do anything with insoles as I have plantar fasciitis in my left heel and have pronation/supination issues in my right foot which I think causes me to put my weight on the ball of my foot and in turn push my big toe and bunion into the side of the skates. I have a really flat left foot and my right has a little arch so I'm not super concerned about the arch changing by messing with insoles.

I emailed back and forth with True and they just told me to rebake after doing the tissue technique so it seems like they're trying to avoid having to make me a new skate(s).

[CigarScott 132]

Just now, Nicholas G said:

I've tried every insole in either my skate or working with customers. If you have a very high profile foot which requires a lot of volume an aftermarket footbed will likely cause issues. This is why I recommend the SpeedPlates, especially now that v 2.0 has been released. They conform to the boot and your arch and take up almost no space in the boot. 

Chase at Pure is an awesome guy. I work with him all the time. You need to be speaking with Rob or someone at True though, likely, they will ask you to send in the skates so they can make modifications to them, assuming they can modify the places you are having issues. Otherwise, they will make you a new set of skates. 

I understand your frustration if you documented, noted, and even provided pictures of the spots where you have foot issues. True really will work with you as best as possible to try and get it resolved. In my experience they have always gone above and beyond exceeding expectations for customer service. 

How do I reach out to Rob?

[Santos L Halper 90]

So, I'm NOT a fit expert and NOT a skate expert, but after 2.5 weeks, 20 hours on the ice, 3 bakes, and twisting myself in knots with ace bandages and ratchet clamps, I have to say that I'm not entirely sure I'd recommend these skates to someone that has severe low volume issues in a traditional skate.  The Trues are designed to fit SO close to your foot that I can easily see how they wouldn't necessarily be a solution to a skater that has problems with off-the-shelf skates fitting 'too tightly'.  

Yes, the skates are built 'custom to your foot', but in this case, 'custom to your foot' also means 'tight to your foot'....no, really 'TIGHT to your foot'.  There is very little dead space (or, almost NONE, if they fit the way they're designed to fit), and that is BY DESIGN.  Hell, they even recommend that you use a shoe-horn to get them on!  Put differently, if my experience is any indication of 'normal', I'd have to say that if someone is having volume issues in an off-the-shelf skate, they're probably going to have volume issues in a True skate, too.  Now, said volume issues may be eminently more 'solve-able' in a True, but I've gotta believe that going into the scan process with the idea that these skates will be a warm, fuzzy panacea of slipper-like comfort is only setting yourself up for disappointment.  

Personally, my issue remains the complete opposite.  Everything feels great, but my heels do not stay locked into the back of the boot.  I'm going to do a rebake this weekend (hopefully - got a tournament to coach) and leave the top eyelet undone.  Then, I'm going to do some targeted molding of the area around my heels/ankles with my heat gun and a small arsenal of ratchet clamps and see if that does the trick....

[Vet88 673]

8 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I'm hesitant to do anything with insoles as I have plantar fasciitis in my left heel and have pronation/supination issues in my right foot which I think causes me to put my weight on the ball of my foot and in turn push my big toe and bunion into the side of the skates.

If you pronate then a True skate, or any skate for that matter, isn't going to solve the issue unless you either 1: make some significant mods to it or 2: correct your pronation with training and relearning how to skate. 

The issue you have with your bunions is exactly as you describe, you lean inwards which puts excessive force onto the inside of the foot and the top of of the outside of the foot (think top of the pinky toe). The traditional method to address this is to either shim the outside of the skate or get your holder moved inwards or a combination of both. You cannot fully address pronation with just arch and foot supports in an ice skate. 

[IPv6Freely 2083]

In the VH days if you identified your pronation at the time of ordering they could build the necessary modifications right into the boot. No idea if that’s still possible though.

[VegasHockey 1260]

15 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

In the VH days if you identified your pronation at the time of ordering they could build the necessary modifications right into the boot. No idea if that’s still possible though.

I think they only do that on a very specif case-by-case basis now. 

[Vet88 673]

And I would hazard a guess that customer experience has lead to that decision. I repeat what I said before, you cannot address pronation by "building" arch support into the boot and or by building a boot such that the inside ankle wall is so stiff it will never flex. Been there, done it and in a year or so the results will be published in a dissertation. If your pronation is mild enough then arch support may help and possibly help enough so that you no longer notice it but the underlying issue remains, your center of gravity (ie center line) is no longer through the middle of your heel to the 2nd toe.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Vet88

[N0s0up4u 0]

Hi All, 

This is my second pair of True skates and I am still having some heel lock issues. I wanted to know if this is a good place, to place the clamps before I start. Also, I am going to bake these at home, I should do a convection oven at 180 for 15 minutes correct?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ELJE72hVQSriXhLs9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ev5X18gmLegytdMx9

Edited August 31, 2018 by N0s0up4u

[VegasHockey 1260]

35 minutes ago, N0s0up4u said:

Hi All, 

This is my second pair of True skates and I am still having some heel lock issues. I wanted to know if this is a good place, to place the clamps before I start. Also, I am going to bake these at home, I should do a convection oven at 180 for 15 minutes correct?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ELJE72hVQSriXhLs9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ev5X18gmLegytdMx9

That is too low of a clamp and that specific location is VERY robust with carbon and materials. You will likely damage the boot if you clamp that area too hard. 

You need to do it like this: 

 

[N0s0up4u 0]

9 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

That is too low of a clamp and that specific location is VERY robust with carbon and materials. You will likely damage the boot if you clamp that area too hard. 

You need to do it like this: 

 

Thanks! 

 

I am having a freaking hard time finding clamps that will even stay. This is the best clamp so far. 

Should I be looking to place it further back on the ankle or just below the ankle bone? 

[CigarScott 132]

I don’t think anyone here wants this thread about True skates deviating into a thread about podiatry but I guess it relates to True skates so I’ll keep posting. 😊

As IP6Freely and Nicholas have said, they are known to have done modifications for people with screwy feet and have bragged about them in news interviews that I’ve seen online. I also figured that since VH/True was known for their customer service and being a small operation compared to Bauer & CCM, that they would be better able and more willing to do modifications which is the main reason that I went with them over the other two.

The weird thing is that barefoot or in flip flops, I’m perfectly fine and don’t feel any pain or discomfort in my feet or calves but when I put on a pair of shoes off-the-shelf, I have pain in the outside edge of my right foot and my Achilles tendon in my right calf kills me. After I got my first set of skates and had done handful of public sessions, I had a podiatrist make me a set of skate orthotics for my skates and after wearing them a handful of times, I started having the opposite problem and started pronating badly in the skates and the combination of my weight and $200 skates, there wasn’t enough stiffness in the boot for me. After skating for a while, my shoe orthotics had to be adjusted since I wasn’t supinating as badly. I went to my orthotist and told him what was going on, he thought I was BS’ing him, but he tested me and sure enough, he had to adjust my orthotics since I wasn’t supinating nearly as badly as before when wearing shoes.

I bought a pair of Super Feet which helped some but was still having pain in the ball of my right foot, so I got some metatarsal pads to put on top of my Super Feet, which helped somewhat but I still had to wear toe caps in both feet, which I think is more of a volume/space issue in the toe box than pronation issue due to the weird shape of my feet as they aren’t comfortable to wear sitting down without any weight put on them as well as the bunion sleeves. Even if pronating for me wasn’t an issue, the skates are too tight and don’t have enough room in the toe box and enough vertical volume. They are uncomfortable to have them on laced up while sitting down and not putting any weight on my feet. Since I was advised to remove the foam spacer in the toe cap, there is zero padding in that area and my toes and bunions have hard plastic or whatever the material is digging into them, even after rebaking doing the tissue technique.

I don’t doubt what Vet88 is saying at all but the reality for me is that I live in Alabama and there is nowhere within a day’s drive that I can have shims installed, get holders moved, etc. The one decent LHS in Atlanta I don’t believe can do either thing and after their experience dealing with VH after True bought them, I doubt they would even touch them. That’s why I ideally would want larger skates with more volume in them for footbeds or Bauer Speed Plates as well as extra padding around the bunion and toe box, in general. I emailed them yesterday with my issues but have yet to hear back. We all read and hear the stories of getting custom skates, regardless of manufacturer and that they’re either an improvement of some kind or outright the most comfortable footwear the person owns but these make me want to go back to my $200 N7000’s… ☹

 

[VegasHockey 1260]

2 hours ago, N0s0up4u said:

Thanks! 

 

I am having a freaking hard time finding clamps that will even stay. This is the best clamp so far. 

Should I be looking to place it further back on the ankle or just below the ankle bone? 

Harbor Freight sells clamps for cheap that work. A couple of dollars per clamp. Just below the ankle bone, you want to lock your foot in.