Foot and lower back pain.

[hockeydad3 51]

Hello,

I started to learn skating on christmas two years ago, going to public skates three times a week.

In april this year i joined a  mixed amateur/recreational hockey club. Playing/practicing two to three times a week for one to one and a half hour on outside hockey rinks. Inlinehockey in summer and since the end of october on ice.

I´m 51 years old, 170 cm and 95kg. I have a flat learning curve. Our sessions are typically half an hour practice with no break and half an hour playing against each other. We are max. 20 players down to 12 players, that means max two rows playing against the other ones.

I have two severe pain problems that hinder me to concentrate on the drills or the game.

First one:

During practice we are skating or standing around on the ice. After a few minutes i`m getting a strong Pain around the footsole and my middlefoot and my feet are getting cold. This Pain vanishes after some minutes of playing.There is no correlation to a special skate (Graf MCI 5035 6.5R/ Bauer Supreme 160s 6.5EE ore insole CCM/Superfeet Carbon pro Hockey/Bauer Speedplate 2.0). The Supremes with the Speedplates are my actual setup which seems to be the best one until now. Skating about 12 hours and three bakes on the supremes  Waxed laces and tying them tight on the forefoot, loose to snug on the middlefoot and tight on the two upper eylets due to a small forefoot, a voluminous middlefoot and a normal heel and ankle. I need a strong ankle support due to my weight and skill level.

Second one:

If we are playing against each other with no or almost no shifts, after ten minutes i start to develop a strong pain in my lower back (lumbar muscles). This pain can develop spasms, forcing me to stop playing. Afterwards i develop a strong ache in my lumbar muscles. If we are two rows, so we can shift every two to three minutes this pain doesn´t develop at all, even if we are playing for one hour.

 

Any ideas?

Thanks for your answers.

Martin

 

[skiboyny 4]

any chance you can find your way to a Bauer 3d machine? Boot fit along with pitch could cause either one. Both point to skates.

[stick9 890]

#1 what you are describing isn't uncommon. Try loosening up your laces at the forefoot. Get them snug but not tight. If you have proper heel lock this shouldn't matter. The other area of pain could be lack of depth, improper arch support or simply getting used to new skates/skating.

#2 sounds like a form issue, bending at the waist instead of the knee. Could also be lack of proper core strength. Both of which will wreak havoc on your lower back.

 

[Leif 161]

I get horribly cold feet when the ice is hard/cold, the heel is okay but the toes feel frozen, not nice at all. I’m not sure there is much that can be done about it apart from moving around. 

I was told by a coach that you should tighten skates not tight at the toes, tight at the mid foot, and not tight at the top. I do the laces up not tight at the toes, tight at the mid foot and semi tight to tight at the ankle. I found having them too loose at the toes caused discomfort, no idea why. You might want to try tightening your laces differently and see if it helps, or not. Personally I hate waxed laces, I prefer wide laces which are easier to tighten, but many will disagree with me, each to their own.  

[BTSyndrome 8]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

Toes feel frozen

My toes would get cold in the toe cap because of all the empty space. The problem went away when I made my own version of "powerfoot" inserts. I didn't do it for the cold it was just a happy accident.

[puckpilot 312]

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

#1 what you are describing isn't uncommon. Try loosening up your laces at the forefoot. Get them snug but not tight. If you have proper heel lock this shouldn't matter. The other area of pain could be lack of depth, improper arch support or simply getting used to new skates/skating.

#2 sounds like a form issue, bending at the waist instead of the knee. Could also be lack of proper core strength. Both of which will wreak havoc on your lower back.

 

Petty much this. 

1- I've been skating most of my life and with my feet I encounter similar symptoms when ever I tighten my skates a little too tight. One trick I've used to address this is to use two sets of laces for each skate, one set for the lower part of the skate and one for the top. 

This way you can have your ankles tied tight and not have it affect the looseness of your mid foot. 

As for your cold toes. I use Powerfoot inserts. They're pieces of foam that reduce negative space around the toes and help with fit. They're also supposed to help with performance, but whatever. For me, they help keep my toes warm and make the skates feel snugger around the toes, and that's all that matters.  You can pick them up online, in a hockey shop, or you can makes your own

 

 

2 I'd tend to agree it could be form issue. IMHO you're stressing certain back muscles. As long as they're warm, your good. But as soon as they get a chance to tighten up, tightness and spasms. 

Aside from tightening up your form, try warming up your muscles before skating and find some hip and lower back stretches to do after and outside of practice. 

Skaters have a tendency to develop tight hip and lower back muscles, which can cause back and even shoulder pain and discomfort.

Retaining and regaining flexibility will not only help with your skating, it'll help with your health in general. 

Disclaimer, I'm not a doctor so be careful and take proper precautions before starting rigorous stretching routines. 

 

My 2 cents. It's worth what you paid. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by puckpilot

[Leif 161]

1 hour ago, BTSyndrome said:

My toes would get cold in the toe cap because of all the empty space. The problem went away when I made my own version of "powerfoot" inserts. I didn't do it for the cold it was just a happy accident.

My current skates leave almost zero space above the toes, no way any foam can fit, however the s160 does have enough room, I’ve used a pair with powerfoot inserts. I like the idea of DIY, they are no more than small pieces of cheap foam with a sticky surface. It’s worth mentioning that mine got very damp from sweat. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Leif

[BTSyndrome 8]

I have a little room for powerfoot type inserts but I have mine much thicker than the picture (of video) posted above.

My first pair I used 1/4" closed cell foam w/ 1/4" 65lb high density foam. This second set was just 1" of the high density foam. Both are covered with water and stain resistant suited speed cloth I had left over from building poker tables... This way they can't soak up moisture.  

I prefer the foam to push down slightly on my toes. I can still wiggle them but it's like form fitted just like the rest of the skate.

[Left Wing King 50]

I've had both of these, for the foot pain, I got a pair of skates that fitted! Made a huge difference from the second I stepped onto the ice! I was able to skate and do things I'd only dreamed of before!

For lower back pain, losing weight helped me! I went from 93kg to 85kg. Also I find stretching helps me

 

 

This one specifically. 

 

With fitting skates and less pain in my back. I'm able to concentrate on drills and improve my game! Which is what we all want to do. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

I tend to agree with the others overall, but did want to make one comment:

On 12/24/2018 at 9:06 AM, hockeydad3 said:

Second one:

If we are playing against each other with no or almost no shifts, after ten minutes i start to develop a strong pain in my lower back (lumbar muscles). This pain can develop spasms, forcing me to stop playing. Afterwards i develop a strong ache in my lumbar muscles. If we are two rows, so we can shift every two to three minutes this pain doesn´t develop at all, even if we are playing for one hour.

 

Playing hockey without subs is brutally tiring.  What you're describing to me sounds pretty normal.  After a normal shift length of a minute or two, you start getting more and more gassed.  As that happens, your form suffers and you start bending at the waist instead of the knees, putting stress on your lower back.  Couple that without a chance to let everything relax on the bench and you've got a recipe for lower back pain.  For me, the fix for this one is more "play games where you have enough folks" and less that you're doing anything particularly wrong.  I mean, obviously being in better shape will help, but there's a reason that lines exist at every level of hockey.

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2092]

7 hours ago, Left Wing King said:

For lower back pain, losing weight helped me! I went from 93kg to 85kg. Also I find stretching helps me

I was taking Advil before every game, pre-emptively. I knew my back would be in pain at some point in the third period every game.

Lost 60lbs and it’s no longer necessary 🙂

[hockeydad3 51]

Thanks for your tips.

I think i have to work on the fitting of my skates. Giving them some additional hours and a baking for breaking in. Trying to lace them more differentiated. My foot ratio is 2,6 which means Supremes. I tried Vapors EE, Supremes D beeing too narrow and Nexus EE beeing too wide. The Supreme EE was feeling OK. I didn´t have the opportunity to try Nexus in D. The s160 have been a good deal second hand, skated only once without baking. They have a perfect heel-lock. when standing  unlaced and my toes touching the cap i can barely put a pencil behind my heel. After tying them snug and standing upright my big toe is just one or two mms´s away from the toe cap. The pencil test just fails for maybe two mm`s  from eylet two to six. My laces are 120" long. With 108" laces i had to undo the first two eylets to get them wide enough to put on my skates. After tying my skates the distance between the eylets is wider on the midfoot than on the forefoot or the bootleg. Maybe i should search for some Nexus D?

The lower backpain could be due to my physical fitness/weight and my skill level 😉. When i know that we are less than 16 players i´m taking ibuprofen which halps slightly. Trying to work on my skating position and stretching. I have been reading that lower back pain could be due to a mismatch of the holder, beeing more to the inside of the skate than the individual balancepoint?

[Vet88 674]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:08 AM, Leif said:

It’s worth mentioning that mine got very damp from sweat. 

Could be a mild form of Reynars syndrome. I have this and after battling with cold, numb toes on an early morning skate (powerfoot inserts made no difference) I finally got hold of some Hothands hand warmers (search Amazon). These work brilliantly to keep your toes warm, I put them on top of my toes / forefoot. Yes, it costs around $1 per skate (local currency) but for the sake of warm toes I happily pay it and always carry them in my bag now. Now I can spend 6 hours+ on the ice with no issues even in the middle of winter.

[Leif 161]

8 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Could be a mild form of Reynars syndrome. I have this and after battling with cold, numb toes on an early morning skate (powerfoot inserts made no difference) I finally got hold of some Hothands hand warmers (search Amazon). These work brilliantly to keep your toes warm, I put them on top of my toes / forefoot. Yes, it costs around $1 per skate (local currency) but for the sake of warm toes I happily pay it and always carry them in my bag now. Now I can spend 6 hours+ on the ice with no issues even in the middle of winter.

I assume you mean Raynaud’s syndrome. No idea. I have that in my fingers when it gets very cold, but my toes are fine once I warm up, and only when the ice is very cold. I guess one issue with custom skates is the lack of room for toe warmers. My boots do get sweaty after a few hours, and the powerfoots just absorb sweat, not sure it’s unusual, they are a porous foam. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Leif

[hockeydad3 51]

The cold toes are simply a sideeffect.

The problem is during practice. Standing around on the ice without a break for half an hour gives me the horrible pain. The pain vanishes when playing with two lines and sitting on the bench during shifts. So constant pressure on my feet seems to induce the pain. Tying loose does reduce the pain but doesn´t give me enough ankle-support. Same problem like in my Graf´s. The improvement over the Graf´s is that my Supremes have a good forward-flex and my big toes dont´t touch the cap anymore and they are more forgiving, but less direct.

Edited December 26, 2018 by hockeydad3

[Vet88 674]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

I assume you mean Raynaud’s syndrome. No idea. I have that in my fingers when it gets very cold, but my toes are fine once I warm up, and only when the ice is very cold. I guess one issue with custom skates is the lack of room for toe warmers. My boots do get sweaty after a few hours, and the powerfoots just absorb sweat, not sure it’s unusual, they are a porous foam. 

Oops, yes, Raynauds. It effects joints / limbs with different levels of severity. You can have it in your fingers really bad but toes very mild, I've even seen a left hand where 3 fingers went white / cold but the right hand was reasonably ok. 

[stick9 890]

6 hours ago, Leif said:

I assume you mean Raynaud’s syndrome. No idea. I have that in my fingers when it gets very cold, but my toes are fine once I warm up, and only when the ice is very cold. I guess one issue with custom skates is the lack of room for toe warmers. My boots do get sweaty after a few hours, and the powerfoots just absorb sweat, not sure it’s unusual, they are a porous foam. 

Could be adding to the problem. Anyone who's skied knows the key to staying warm is staying dry, that includes sweat. 

I'd start looking for some smart wool socks made for skiing. Theyll help with wick the moisture as well as add some warmth.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

16 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Could be adding to the problem. Anyone who's skied knows the key to staying warm is staying dry, that includes sweat. 

I'd start looking for some smart wool socks made for skiing. Theyll help with wick the moisture as well as add some warmth.

Smartwool is the only thing I use for hiking, after trying numerous other sock brands. Though oddly enough, I never tried Swiftwick in my hiking boots even though that's what I wear in my skates. 

[Leif 161]

On 12/26/2018 at 4:08 PM, stick9 said:

Could be adding to the problem. Anyone who's skied knows the key to staying warm is staying dry, that includes sweat. 

I'd start looking for some smart wool socks made for skiing. Theyll help with wick the moisture as well as add some warmth.

The cold toes are at the start when I’m dry, our rink is very cold as there is no heating, it broke down years ago and they can’t afford repairs. I picked up some wool skiing socks, and my toes are now very toasty, so I’ll see how they do on ice. Mind you, they are so warm I’ll wear these during the day given the cold winter mornings. 

Edit: skated with wool socks today, two hours hockey scrimmage, they’re great, much warmer at the start of the session, they do get quite damp but that didn’t bother me as by then my feet were warm. Much better than Bauer socks. Good tip, thanks. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Leif

[Leif 161]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:50 AM, Vet88 said:

Oops, yes, Raynauds. It effects joints / limbs with different levels of severity. You can have it in your fingers really bad but toes very mild, I've even seen a left hand where 3 fingers went white / cold but the right hand was reasonably ok. 

I have it bad in my right hand, first few fingers, left hand is okay. It seems quite common, a friend had it recently during public skating, he’s almost the same age as me, 55, maybe it’s an age thing.

[Vet88 674]

You hit the nail on the head there, it does get worse and more noticeable as you get older.