Ccm jetspeed ft1 or new ones?

[mjpisat 36]

Looking to upgrade my original jetspeed

Either go with current ft1 or new ones.  Not the ft2 or not me down from ft2.  They have one piece boot too.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, mjpisat said:

Looking to upgrade my original jetspeed

Either go with current ft1 or new ones.  Not the ft2 or not me down from ft2.  They have one piece boot too.

 

Who learned you how to spoke? 

[mjpisat 36]

Oh wow.  I typed that in a rush.

I’m looking to get the FT1 or wait til the new line comes out and get the ones that are a level below the FT2.  Apparently they will be a one piece boot as well.

[stick9 890]

Wow, that was pretty bad. 

I see Monkey has already dropped then price on the current model. I suspect they'll drop again once the new line is released. So the question is, will the current FT1 be cheaper than the updated 390? If they are close does the updated 390 come with the new holder?

I'd probably wait to at least see the new line. Plus you know prices are likely to drop again on the current line.  

[Shenanigans 11]

The 490s are gonna be $600, I don't know the specs but with the one piece boot at that price and the new holder, seems pretty reasonable. Once the specs come out Id compare them to the FT1 and choose from there. FT1s are like $750 right now, so the 490s might be the way to go if the price doesn't drop on the FT1. Stadium Sports has them on pre-order right now. Along with the FT2($850), and the Vapor 2x pros($900). 

[BlueNux 17]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:24 AM, stick9 said:

Wow, that was pretty bad. 

I see Monkey has already dropped then price on the current model. I suspect they'll drop again once the new line is released. So the question is, will the current FT1 be cheaper than the updated 390? If they are close does the updated 390 come with the new holder?

I'd probably wait to at least see the new line. Plus you know prices are likely to drop again on the current line.  

Chase from IW confirmed along with a CCM rep on a recent review video that the FT490 does come with the new holder.

In fact, the only downgrade from the FT1 and FT490 seems to be the runner (no hyper glide) and a nylon midsole. I’m not sure why he said the FT490 has a nylon midsole though since a one piece boot is supposed to be composite.

The FT1 and FT490 seem so similar that I wonder if the fit is even the same. I know that with the previous FT line, the 380 fit completely differently than FT1 and was more similar to the original jetspeeds (wider and with more depth throughout).

CCM sizing between price points are so much more inconsistent than Bauer.

Edited March 11, 2019 by BlueNux

[Mister_NoDangles 7]

You can find FT1s in the $500 range if you look around. I got a new pair for $550 a couple months ago. I'd go that route and then replace the holder if you felt inclined to do so.

[jdvn 8]

17 hours ago, BlueNux said:

Chase from IW confirmed along with a CCM rep on a recent review video that the FT490 does come with the new holder.

In fact, the only downgrade from the FT1 and FT490 seems to be the runner (no hyper glide) and a nylon midsole. I’m not sure why he said the FT490 has a nylon midsole though since a one piece boot is supposed to be composite.

The FT1 and FT490 seem so similar that I wonder if the fit is even the same. I know that with the previous FT line, the 380 fit completely differently than FT1 and was more similar to the original jetspeeds (wider and with more depth throughout).

CCM sizing between price points are so much more inconsistent than Bauer.

Hockey Tutorial should be releasing a video soon comparing the FT2 and FT490. I'm curious as to why there would be a nylon midsole in a fully composite one-piece boot and how it affects performance, etc.

[flip12 714]

Midsole is the piece between the outsole (in this case, the bottom of the monocoque shell) and the insole, right? If you look at some of CCM's factory videos, you can see them adding such a piece to their "one-piece" composite boots. I guess it makes sense this piece can be made of various materials. It should have no bearing on the composition of the outer shell, so that would still be accurately called composite regardless of what the midsole's made of.

[bunnyman666 445]

4 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Midsole is the piece between the outsole (in this case, the bottom of the monocoque shell) and the insole, right? If you look at some of CCM's factory videos, you can see them adding such a piece to their "one-piece" composite boots. I guess it makes sense this piece can be made of various materials. It should have no bearing on the composition of the outer shell, so that would still be accurately called composite regardless of what the midsole's made of.

“One piece” in composites can be a misnomer. I have not seen the assembly of any CCM “one piece” boots, but can say with certainty that many “one piece” composite items are not always one piece and can merely be finished as one piece. When the pieces are bonded together, they do act as one piece! I am thinking that the quarters and heel are the one piece and the outsole and insole are glued on/in. Many times, two halves are bonded together to make one piece in the midst of the manufacturing process. If there were truth in advertising laws governing truly “one piece” composite structures, I could think of few that would be telling the truth!  

[BlueNux 17]

9 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

“One piece” in composites can be a misnomer. I have not seen the assembly of any CCM “one piece” boots, but can say with certainty that many “one piece” composite items are not always one piece and can merely be finished as one piece. When the pieces are bonded together, they do act as one piece! I am thinking that the quarters and heel are the one piece and the outsole and insole are glued on/in. Many times, two halves are bonded together to make one piece in the midst of the manufacturing process. If there were truth in advertising laws governing truly “one piece” composite structures, I could think of few that would be telling the truth!  

If this is true than I’ve been duped all this time by CCM. I can’t consider that a one piece boot if all it is is an outsole that’s shaped in a way to sit flush against the quarter. That’s just good design, but definitely not a one piece. 

From a performance standpoint, I can hardly imagine a difference compared to a traditional outsole.

Does anyone have more info on this?

[bunnyman666 445]

46 minutes ago, BlueNux said:

If this is true than I’ve been duped all this time by CCM. I can’t consider that a one piece boot if all it is is an outsole that’s shaped in a way to sit flush against the quarter. That’s just good design, but definitely not a one piece. 

From a performance standpoint, I can hardly imagine a difference compared to a traditional outsole.

Does anyone have more info on this?

I would not say even duped. Technically, since the heel and the quarter are together, it would qualify as one piece. Is there a performance benefit? Probably not except that the heel and quarter are stiffer and theoretically would not flex from each other. If the outsole is the same type of composite glued on, then there is another layer or two of fabric on top, then it would technically be one piece. So I would not say you’ve been duped; a 100% singular boot with outsole would most likely be very expensive with little to no benefit. True’s boot is not one piece for certain! 

It’s like a monocoque fuselage- many pieces compose the “mono” of the monocoque. 

I now want to watch the video @flip12 referenced. Now I am curious, myself. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

The FT490 is very similar to the current FT1. If you like the weight and such of the current generation then go with the FT490. Also, I am not 100% sure about the midsole as the CCM catalog only mentioned lightweight midsole for the FT490 and specifically a composite midsole on the FT2. Not like it really matters in the end. 

[flip12 714]

11 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

I now want to watch the video @flip12 referenced. Now I am curious, myself. 

I would have included the link, but last time I tried to find it a few months ago, I couldn’t locate it again.

I think it was from @BelangerJS giving a factory tour way back when the Super Tacks were (re)released on Facebook Live or something.

[decoy 164]

5 hours ago, flip12 said:

I would have included the link, but last time I tried to find it a few months ago, I couldn’t locate it again.

I think it was from @BelangerJS giving a factory tour way back when the Super Tacks were (re)released on Facebook Live or something.

Was it this?

https://www.facebook.com/nytimes/posts/how-are-nhl-caliber-hockey-skates-made-join-us-live-from-the-ccm-hockey-factory-/10150937700674999/

[CigarScott 132]

I got this in my email recently: https://www.icewarehouse.com/lc/brands/ccm-onepiece-benefit-insight.html?fbclid=IwAR3O0ifhOuE_r1oISR6xd8tQBWpw9Ey1NSLkcLDaDhver-FmNMjBmnOHRKc

 

[flip12 714]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:16 PM, decoy said:

Was it this?

https://www.facebook.com/nytimes/posts/how-are-nhl-caliber-hockey-skates-made-join-us-live-from-the-ccm-hockey-factory-/10150937700674999/

I think that was the one I remembered it in, but I can't find the shot of them installing it now. Anyhow, for a before and after, see here, how the liner just wraps over the interior of the outsole by a little over a centimeter before the midsole goes in...

...but then it's all tucked away neatly behind the midsole after:

 

[z1ggy 81]

Will the FT490 fit like FT1? "Rumor" is the heel area of FT2 was widened a touch due to player feedback. However, FT1 was like the only skate on retail that offered a narrow enough heel for me while giving enough room mid foot and volume wise. Vapor was narrow in the heel but also murdered the rest of my foot, and EE width vapor was actually too wide in the heel.

If FT2 Heel got bigger it may not be ideal for me anymore. I can of course get FT1 but I want to do the custom 3D fit process because I've got some weird foot bones, etc. I can always punch but I did that with my Mako's and it took over 3 months to really get the fit correct. I also assume CCM has made some improvements to the FT1 design such that upgrading to FT2/490 could be worth it.

[BlueNux 17]

2 hours ago, z1ggy said:

Will the FT490 fit like FT1? "Rumor" is the heel area of FT2 was widened a touch due to player feedback. However, FT1 was like the only skate on retail that offered a narrow enough heel for me while giving enough room mid foot and volume wise. Vapor was narrow in the heel but also murdered the rest of my foot, and EE width vapor was actually too wide in the heel.

If FT2 Heel got bigger it may not be ideal for me anymore. I can of course get FT1 but I want to do the custom 3D fit process because I've got some weird foot bones, etc. I can always punch but I did that with my Mako's and it took over 3 months to really get the fit correct. I also assume CCM has made some improvements to the FT1 design such that upgrading to FT2/490 could be worth it.

I have a (speculative) theory that CCM might just be reusing a lot of components and manufacturing processes from previous season's top-end skates in the current model's second price point. I think the one-piece exterior of the FT490 will be the same as in FT1.

From a material standpoint, the quarter packages are exactly the same (LITEFRAME 360). The comfort pads even look the same. Similar tongue too. Only real difference seems to be the reinforced toe cap connection. Just new graphics.

With that said, the fit will be slightly different because the foam and ankle padding will be different inside. FT1 had asymmetrical padding and FT490 will not. There's only so much they can play with padding though, so I still think the overall feel will be very similar to FT1.

CCM 2019 catalog: http://4prosport.ru/catalog/putpdf?put=/Media/images/catalog/pdf/ccm2019.pdf

CCM 2018 catalog: http://nextone-hockey.com/fcms_data/4_1/39a04eccc570faa342a5abd9b40dd331.pdf

Edited March 20, 2019 by BlueNux

[z1ggy 81]

On 3/20/2019 at 1:03 PM, BlueNux said:

I have a (speculative) theory that CCM might just be reusing a lot of components and manufacturing processes from previous season's top-end skates in the current model's second price point. I think the one-piece exterior of the FT490 will be the same as in FT1.

From a material standpoint, the quarter packages are exactly the same (LITEFRAME 360). The comfort pads even look the same. Similar tongue too. Only real difference seems to be the reinforced toe cap connection. Just new graphics.

With that said, the fit will be slightly different because the foam and ankle padding will be different inside. FT1 had asymmetrical padding and FT490 will not. There's only so much they can play with padding though, so I still think the overall feel will be very similar to FT1.

CCM 2019 catalog: http://4prosport.ru/catalog/putpdf?put=/Media/images/catalog/pdf/ccm2019.pdf

CCM 2018 catalog: http://nextone-hockey.com/fcms_data/4_1/39a04eccc570faa342a5abd9b40dd331.pdf

Well, logically it makes sense to do what you've described due to cost and manufacturing reasons. Will CCM still offer the 3D system on the 490? And for arguments sake, let's pretend the 490 also fits a hair wider in the heel area than FT1 - Would the 3D fit be able to negate any voids as opposed to "creating" more space like punching would (although I may need a little of that "punching" near my 5th met bone and outside of big toe knuckle)?

 

Edit: Purchased FT1's last night. Didn't love them until I baked... Now they feel pretty good. Going to wear them around all week and then give them a skate this weekend. Probably will re-bake again after. Apparently the 90 day money back thing still applies, so if I don't love them I will return them and try FT2's or throw down for True's if I don't really feel like it's an awesome fit after a bake. Just can't deal with my Mako's anymore, giving me major foot pain and numbness in one of my toe. May try different footbeds in the Mako before moving on to FT2 or True if FT1's aren't working.

Edited March 27, 2019 by z1ggy

[BlueNux 17]

On 3/20/2019 at 1:56 PM, z1ggy said:

Well, logically it makes sense to do what you've described due to cost and manufacturing reasons. Will CCM still offer the 3D system on the 490? And for arguments sake, let's pretend the 490 also fits a hair wider in the heel area than FT1 - Would the 3D fit be able to negate any voids as opposed to "creating" more space like punching would (although I may need a little of that "punching" near my 5th met bone and outside of big toe knuckle)?

 

Edit: Purchased FT1's last night. Didn't love them until I baked... Now they feel pretty good. Going to wear them around all week and then give them a skate this weekend. Probably will re-bake again after. Apparently the 90 day money back thing still applies, so if I don't love them I will return them and try FT2's or throw down for True's if I don't really feel like it's an awesome fit after a bake. Just can't deal with my Mako's anymore, giving me major foot pain and numbness in one of my toe. May try different footbeds in the Mako before moving on to FT2 or True if FT1's aren't working.

I would try both the FT2 and FT490. Different price points fit and feel differently - sometimes it's not even subtle.

By the way, the embargo for retailers just dropped on the top 3 lines of the new Jetspeed skates. You can check them out here at Ice Warehouse. Each skate has video showcasing each feature from different angles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of how the new heel pocket looks. They said they expanded it a little, but looking at the pictures and comparing them to the previous Jetspeed skates, the new heels are cavernous across all price points.

Has any store owners here tried the new skates?

[VegasHockey 1280]

We have the FT490 and FT2 in stock, but are obviously not selling them yet. What do you want to know about them?

1 hour ago, BlueNux said:

I would try both the FT2 and FT490. Different price points fit and feel differently - sometimes it's not even subtle.

By the way, the embargo for retailers just dropped on the top 3 lines of the new Jetspeed skates. You can check them out here at Ice Warehouse. Each skate has video showcasing each feature from different angles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of how the new heel pocket looks. They said they expanded it a little, but looking at the pictures and comparing them to the previous Jetspeed skates, the new heels are cavernous across all price points.

Has any store owners here tried the new skates?

 

[BlueNux 17]

12 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

We have the FT490 and FT2 in stock, but are obviously not selling them yet. What do you want to know about them?

 

1) How do the FT490, FT2, and FT1 compare in terms of fit, specifically at the heel and depth/volume? I have skinny heel but medium instep.

2) Is the heel pocket really flat and hard still in the new Jetspeeds? Bauers have cushioning that extend further down and prevent heel spurs for me.

3) I read that the FT2 has its graphics printed more securely compared to the FT1. Is this also true for the FT490?

Interestingly, I noticed the new Jetspeeds also dropped one eyelet unless I miscounted. FYI: I fit pretty well into current generation Supreme skates.

Edited March 29, 2019 by BlueNux

[z1ggy 81]

1 hour ago, BlueNux said:

I would try both the FT2 and FT490. Different price points fit and feel differently - sometimes it's not even subtle.

By the way, the embargo for retailers just dropped on the top 3 lines of the new Jetspeed skates. You can check them out here at Ice Warehouse. Each skate has video showcasing each feature from different angles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of how the new heel pocket looks. They said they expanded it a little, but looking at the pictures and comparing them to the previous Jetspeed skates, the new heels are cavernous across all price points.

Has any store owners here tried the new skates?

Got the FT1's on ice today for the first time. I notice my right heel not 100% locked in like the left... I think it's actually because the heel padding needs to break in more and let me ankle/heel sink in back and down a little bit more. I'm also not used to the shape of the toe box coming from Mako which is more more anatomical and has some padding built in. Hot spots right where my pinky toe is... pretty much right where the toe box meets the boot, unsure if I'll be able to punch that.

 

Going to give them at least 4 or 5 skates (prob 1-2 bakes, too) and then go try on and hopefully get into baked FT2's. If the heel pocket is "massively" bigger then that won't work either, but a hint more width in the toe box would be welcome. 

 

Also as an aside, is the radius of the stock steel 11'? I believe I had a stock 10' on my Mako with step steel, and for the first 10 minutes or so it was like being on roller blades out there. Got used to it though and now I kind of like it. My turns didn't seem to suffer much loss of radius but they were CRISP. The ice was ripping loudly and I felt insanely stable. 

[Fordyoz 4]

Bump for more input and response from nicholas g regarding ft1 vs ft490.

I recently bought ft1's (after about 20 years of grafs).  I need to have them profiled to put me more on my toes, but the right foot feels amazing.  Super light and just about as perfect of a fit as i could want.  The left side (my bigger foot) needs more room all around.  Might need to go custom unless the ft490 heel pocket has a little more room to let my foot settle in more.