Is this holder mounted properly?

[VegasHockey 1280]

@JR Boucicaut @Vet88 @oldtrainerguy28

I’m out on vacation currently and a player came to the shop asking for someone to validate if his holders are properly mounted. Apparently, he put 272 holders on a 7.5 skate, replacing the stock 263, and is saying they feel too far forward and he feels like he is falling forward. I would help him out if I was home in Seattle, but I am in Arizona for the next 10 days. I asked him to share some pics and he sent me the one below. 

To me, they look too far forward by about 1/2" or so. 

 

 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Agreed. The mount is too far towards the toe  

What’s also bad is those rivets were CRANKED.  You can see each one has warped the holder.  Looks like someone doesn’t know how to use a pneumatic riveter. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Agreed. The mount is too far towards the toe  

What’s also bad is those rivets were CRANKED.  You can see each one has warped the holder.  Looks like someone doesn’t know how to use a pneumatic riveter. 

Yeah, IMO those holders are destroyed and he should seek to get his money back from the shop who did the install. He also should be refunded for the installation too. 

Can I have him send you the skates to get the holders mounted properly?

I am having the guys at the shop check and see if we have another set of 272 holders in stock so he doesn't have to drive all the way back up to Vancouver.  

[bunnyman666 445]

@Nicholas GNot any of the three named, but the install looks pretty hinky to me. I would not be leaving the shoppe without giving the manager an ear full! I may not an expert on skate repair, but I know when the rivets were cranked too hard! I have seen a few skates in my shoppe that had cracked holders in spots that had over-cranked rivets. 

I have that exact installation done (272mm holder on a size 7.5 boot) on all of my player skates and eyeballing those pix, I would expect to be pitched too far forward with the placement. From my untrained eye, it looks like they mounted using the existing holes from the old holders on the heel of the boot. I may be wrong here, but that’s what it looks like from the pix. 

 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

To be completely honest with you, I wouldn't touch that job at all.  

Now you're putting a third set of holes that are really close to each other, or further expanding an existing set of holes. If the shop can't handle doing oversized, they shouldn't take that job on.  If I were the skater, I'd want new boots.

1 minute ago, bunnyman666 said:

From my untrained eye, it looks like they mounted using the existing holes from the old holders on the heel of the boot. I may be wrong here, but that’s what it looks like from the pix. 

 

Correct.  They saw the back 6 line up and drilled new holes in the front.

[VegasHockey 1280]

One thing I find interesting is these are. 7.5EE. I know on Bauer or TRUE they would normally be a 272. 

Why does CCM use a 263 on the same size? 263 for this boot size seems too small. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

To be completely honest with you, I wouldn't touch that job at all.  

Now you're putting a third set of holes that are really close to each other, or further expanding an existing set of holes. If the shop can't handle doing oversized, they shouldn't take that job on.  If I were the skater, I'd want new boots.

Correct.  They saw the back 6 line up and drilled new holes in the front.

Agreed. I'll let him know. I am not sure if the shop that did the work is gonna replace the boot though for their shoddy workmanship. He said they were quite defensive when he first asked them if they mounted the holders too far forward basically telling him they do it all the time and other shops, and the online community, are overall clueless. I am trying to be politically correct by specifically not naming the shop. 

[bunnyman666 445]

1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

To be completely honest with you, I wouldn't touch that job at all.  

Now you're putting a third set of holes that are really close to each other, or further expanding an existing set of holes. If the shop can't handle doing oversized, they shouldn't take that job on.  If I were the skater, I'd want new boots.

Correct.  They saw the back 6 line up and drilled new holes in the front.

Just what I suspected on using the rear holes. That is LAZY.

@JR Boucicaut I can’t see any shoppe worth their salt taking on that job for the reasons stated. I have, unfortunately, had a few barbarians drill unnecessary holes in my boots, too, in one of those operations I had described! Just because a place has “pro skate repair” on their shingle, that shingle does not make anyone in the shoppe an expert! Knowing that many of the good repair guys are gone from the “good” hockey stores, I know I would be sending my stuff to you.

@Nicholas G I hope your friend can get satisfaction from the shoppe in question.

I have had both 272mm and 263mm holders installed on 7.5 boots in a few brands. The 272mm were usually on higher end skates, but not always. Sometimes, I think they throw on whatever they have in the bin, to be blunt with you.  If they are out of 272’s, they will throw on 263’s.

Edited March 29, 2019 by bunnyman666

[IPv6Freely 2092]

3 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Agreed. I'll let him know. I am not sure if the shop that did the work is gonna replace the boot though for their shoddy workmanship. He said they were quite defensive when he first asked them if they mounted the holders too far forward basically telling him they do it all the time and other shops, and the online community, are overall clueless. I am trying to be politically correct by specifically not naming the shop. 

Would actually be better to name the shop so people here know not to get work done there.

[VegasHockey 1280]

5 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Would actually be better to name the shop so people here know not to get work done there.

It's a conflict of interest since I also own a shop as well. If the customer, who is also a ModSquad member, wants to share the shopping he can. I won't though. 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

If the shop in question did the work and are saying that other shops and online communities are clueless, they deserve to get put on blast if they're owning up to that mount.

Experiences with businesses, good or bad, should be shared.   Perhaps the MSH member who got this done will chime in.

 

[stick9 891]

At this point, just put the factory installed 263 holders back on and go with a longer profile. Saves the boot from the scrap bin. The shop should sould toss in an extra set of steel for the hassle. 

FWIW, 263 on a 7.5D seems about right, 272 on a EE.

https://www.hockeygiant.com/support/Bauer_Tuuk_Holder_and_Runner/pg_id/20211

Edited March 30, 2019 by stick9

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Bauer puts the next size up on the EE variants.

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Bauer puts the next size up on the EE variants.

Yeah. I have no idea why CCM doesn't do the same. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, stick9 said:

At this point, just put the factory installed 263 holders back on and go with a longer profile. Saves the boot from the scrap bin. The shop should sould toss in an extra set of steel for the hassle. 

FWIW, 263 on a 7.5D seems about right, 272 on a EE.

https://www.hockeygiant.com/support/Bauer_Tuuk_Holder_and_Runner/pg_id/20211

I have him that as an option, for us to install a set of 263 holders, but that's not what he wants. 

[Sniper9 530]

CCM holders seem to be longer in terms of their mount's size Their steel/runner length may be the same but their 263 holders seem cover off more length vs tuuks in 263. Can someone confirm this? My 263 SB holders on my size 7 skates basically have no room at the heel or toe, so putting 272 holders would make the holders stick out at the front.  Whereas on my size7 Bauer's there was still some room. 

@Nicholas G can u dm the shop in Vancouver. I want to avoid this place since I live in Vancouver. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Sniper9

[Larry54 243]

7 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I have him that as an option, for us to install a set of 263 holders, but that's not what he wants. 

How about 263 holders with Step XL steel? If I'm not mistaken the XL steel is longer than regular Step.

[Larry54 243]

7 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Yeah. I have no idea why CCM doesn't do the same. 

Maybe because longer is not necessarily better.

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 hours ago, Larry54 said:

Maybe because longer is not necessarily better.

I just would imagine there would be some consistency between the two brands in regards to holders sizing. CCM used to go with larger holders than Bauer in the past. 

[stick9 891]

4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I just would imagine there would be some consistency between the two brands in regards to holders sizing. CCM used to go with larger holders than Bauer in the past. 

They changed to be more inline with Bauer a few years back. The numbers aren't exact, but they are pretty close, a few mm off.

And BTW, the easiest way to tell if they were mounted properly would be to pull the footbed and look at the holes for the rear tower. If they didn't drill new holes, then it's off by 9mm. 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

But the boots weren't the same size.

6 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I just would imagine there would be some consistency between the two brands in regards to holders sizing. CCM used to go with larger holders than Bauer in the past. 

 

[Sniper9 530]

From what I know the read towers are supposed to be as far back as possible to the heel.ofbthr skate... Wouldn't that position be the same regardless of how long the holders are? Wouldn't the rear tower always be pretty much int he same place and the length between the rear and front towers change, thus only changing where the front tower is mounted?  Unless the SB holders and tuuk holders have a diff balance point, and even if the holes line up, the SB holders would be positioned all the way back vs tuuks not being all the way back. I always noticed the tuuk holders (even on Bauer boots) weren't as flush with the edge of the heel vs CCM/sb setups. 

Both skates with holders meant for it's size. You can see the tuuks don't go all the way to the edge of the heel. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Sniper9

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

The tower designs are different.  CCM's plate goes further back, and the Tuuk's front goes further up.

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 hours ago, stick9 said:

They changed to be more inline with Bauer a few years back. The numbers aren't exact, but they are pretty close, a few mm off.

And BTW, the easiest way to tell if they were mounted properly would be to pull the footbed and look at the holes for the rear tower. If they didn't drill new holes, then it's off by 9mm. 

I'll have him snag a photo and email me it. When I get it I'll post it. 

[Larry54 243]

7 hours ago, stick9 said:

They changed to be more inline with Bauer a few years back. The numbers aren't exact, but they are pretty close, a few mm off.

And BTW, the easiest way to tell if they were mounted properly would be to pull the footbed and look at the holes for the rear tower. If they didn't drill new holes, then it's off by 9mm. 

Wouldn't it be off by 4.5mm since the rear tower should be 4.5mm more toward the rear and the front tower 4.5mm toward the front to have the 9mm longer holder centered fore and aft?

Edited March 31, 2019 by Larry54