Fix for "booting" or "bottoming" out?

[JONES199 6]

The boot of my son's skate (2S pro) is sometimes hitting the ice on a tight turn causing him to wipe out.  In skiing, we used to call it "booting" out and the solution was lifts placed between the ski and the binding to raise the foot up off the surface.  Is there a similar way to raise the skate boot off the ice?

[VegasHockey 1280]

Some players will have lifts installed. They sit between the skate runner holder and the boot to add more height. Here is a pic example:

[JONES199 6]

So "lifts" is the correct term - thanks.

[psulion22 402]

What kind of steel is he using, and how old is it?

[VegasHockey 1280]

51 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

What kind of steel is he using, and how old is it?

I imagine since he is using a 2S Pro skate the steel must be fairly new. This is just an assumption though. 

[JONES199 6]

Brand new steel, the black ones that come in the 2S Pros, LS5 maybe, they are quite tall.

[psulion22 402]

25 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I imagine since he is using a 2S Pro skate the steel must be fairly new. This is just an assumption though. 

 

5 minutes ago, JONES199 said:

Brand new steel, the black ones that come in the 2S Pros, LS5 maybe, they are quite tall.

I figured, but just wanted to make sure you didn't bring some worn steel over from old skates.

Flare steel is an option also.  It's not higher than LS5, but he wouldn't have to lean as far to get the same edge.

[Vet88 674]

9 hours ago, JONES199 said:

The boot of my son's skate (2S pro) is sometimes hitting the ice on a tight turn causing him to wipe out.  In skiing, we used to call it "booting" out and the solution was lifts placed between the ski and the binding to raise the foot up off the surface.  Is there a similar way to raise the skate boot off the ice?

Have you considered it may be a technique issue? You may want to think of some video analysis of his turns, if you can get hold of a high speed camera then film him doing turns from lots of different angles. Then use a frame capture program to look at how he is positioned during the turn and get a coach or instructor to have a look. You may get more out this for his long term development than just adding lifts. 

[JONES199 6]

We have.  The instructors are trying to figure it out as well.  Thanks. 

[superchad 2]

i have extremely wide feet, left is 7 1/4 EEEEE and right is 7 3/4 EEEE, i have 6mm lifts in the front and 9mm in the back. before that, i was "bottoming out" all the time. ive also been using the flare steel which i think helps also. i can now definitely lean over more on turns.

[JONES199 6]

Thanks.  It only started with the new skates, it's the first time with the EE width (as per the Bauer scanning system).  I was wondering if it was the additional width of the boot or the fact that the 2S Pros are so much stiffer than the 1S he came out of, perhaps allowing him to get over further than before.

[Vet88 674]

The extra boot width of an EE may give him a little more extra lateral flex in the ankle (the fit isn't quite perfect for the width of the ankle) and this flex is just enough for him to bottom out. Or it could be holder alignment, if the holder is a fraction more to the inside than on his 1S then this can cause him to bottom out as the edge is not in the same place his muscle memory expects it to be. If either of these are the case then him growing into the boot and adapting to it should help. I don't think it's the stiffness but it depends on the fit, a stiffer boot that locks the sideways flexion of the ankle would help to stop bottoming out.

[JONES199 6]

Lateral heel movement is what the instructor thinks as well.  So I guess it's custom skates.  The kid's always been in Supremes but the instructor wants him to switch to the one piece CCMs.

[flip12 712]

Could some filler like Stable 26 socks serve as a test of that theory before springing for another pair of skates?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

3 hours ago, JONES199 said:

Lateral heel movement is what the instructor thinks as well.  So I guess it's custom skates.  The kid's always been in Supremes but the instructor wants him to switch to the one piece CCMs.

I would look at blade alignment as well. Most likely he bottoms out on the right more than the left. 

And the tighter the fit heel wise yes the skating coach is right there would be less movement and less chance of bottoming out. 

Might want to look at True as well fit wise if your looking at custom. 

[Vet88 674]

11 hours ago, JONES199 said:

Lateral heel movement is what the instructor thinks as well.  So I guess it's custom skates.  The kid's always been in Supremes but the instructor wants him to switch to the one piece CCMs.

I'd be trying to get the heel fit better first. If it works it tells you that lateral heel movement is an issue and then you can make a decision for a narrower heel fit boot. Or dig deeper and have the holder alignment checked. Also if he's a light weight then the boot may hold it's shape but my experience with this is the boot always wants to return to it's original shape, you can widen a boot but it's really hard to make it narrower and have it stay there.

Try heating and clamping under the back half of the ankle or use a bandage wrap. Or what I do, with a heat gun heat the inner rear quarter, put the skates on and lace them up then lie on the floor with the heated side facing upward. Support the holder with pucks etc so that the boot will remain level. Get someone to stand on the rear quarter in bare feet / socks. Focus on the area under and just to the rear of the ankle. This will compress the boot around his ankle and into the heel. Next day do the outside rear quarter of the boot.

[JONES199 6]

We've got the socks one order and we'll try to mould the heel but it's clear to us that customs are going to be in order.  The Trues are out but the one piece CCMs are intriguing I just wonder of a one piece can be customized, where would the excess material go?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Why would the Trues be out and CCM in when there more money?? Just curious?

[JONES199 6]

Not money at all - I think the money is all pretty comprable.  Watched lots of high-end local guys go to True.  All are now in custom Bauers.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

34 minutes ago, JONES199 said:

Not money at all - I think the money is all pretty comprable.  Watched lots of high-end local guys go to True.  All are now in custom Bauers.

 

I've seen the opposite at our stores, I own three. All players who went with CCM and Bauer custom skates later swapped to TRUE. 

Different strokes, for different folks, right?

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

I'm curious as to what the ratio is if a store offers all three brands.  Might have to place a few calls.

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I'm curious as to what the ratio is if a store offers all three brands.  Might have to place a few calls.

For us, 40% TRUE, and 35% CCM. We don't do Bauer custom. 

Not sure about other stores in the area as they can only do Bauer and CCM, not TRUE 

Would love to know the metrics other stores are seeing. 

[start_today 770]

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

For us, 40% TRUE, and 35% CCM. We don't do Bauer custom. 

Not sure about other stores in the area as they can only do Bauer and CCM, not TRUE 

Would love to know the metrics other stores are seeing. 

Are you saying 40% of your customs are True, and 35% are CCM? Or, am I misreading what you mean?

 What’s the other 25%?

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 hours ago, start_today said:

Are you saying 40% of your customs are True, and 35% are CCM? Or, am I misreading what you mean?

 What’s the other 25%?

Yes, that's correct. The rest is usually Bauer customs, which we don't sell currently. Could also be Graf.

For those options I refer customers up north to Vancouver Canada. Since I don't sell them I have no way of knowing if the customer completes the transaction so I just consider those sales as "other". 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Nicholas G