Very desperate for help fixing uncommon skate profile problem

[stick9 896]

1 hour ago, Shogun said:

I’ve always been a size 7 in Vapors. I bought the FT1’s when they came out in size 7. Back in March, a buddy of mine has FT1’s, too, but in size 6.5 and he was going to sell them. I decided to try them on and they fit, ahah. Not sure if they stretch a bit over time, but they fit pretty good, so I bought them off him. Couldn’t get used to the smaller holder (254), just felt off balance. 

The thing to do there would be to put a larger profile on the blades.

[Shogun 19]

1 minute ago, stick9 said:

The thing to do there would be to put a larger profile on the blades.

I tried that, didn’t like it. Mind you, I didn’t try it for long, hahah. I have no patience, apparently. 

[Sniper9 535]

Honestly. Get new skates... And if they happen to be 6.5 go to a reputable place or send them to JR to have an oversized holders mounted. I could be wrong but it'll be hard to fix your situation bc of how closely the holes are drilled, but only someone who knows what they are doing will be able to tell you. 

If you fit a 6.5 in ft1 then I think you were always a 6.5.  the length doesn't change or stretch over time. What size shoe are you. I am a 9 and wear 7 skates. Everyone I know that wears less than two sizes down from their proper shoe size say their toes don't brush at all while standing which indicates they can size down, but it's also personal preference to a certain degree. 

Where r u located. 

[Shogun 19]

3 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Honestly. Get new skates... And if they happen to be 6.5 go to a reputable place or send them to JR to have an oversized holders mounted. I could be wrong but it'll be hard to fix your situation bc of how closely the holes are drilled, but only someone who knows what they are doing will be able to tell you. 

If you fit a 6.5 in ft1 then I think you were always a 6.5.  the length doesn't change or stretch over time. What size shoe are you. I am a 9 and wear 7 skates. Everyone I know that wears less than two sizes down from their proper shoe size say their toes don't brush at all while standing which indicates they can size down, but it's also personal preference to a certain degree. 

Where r u located. 

I wear a 8.5 shoe. The guy at the shop said he would fix my issue if I don’t like how they feel on the ice. If he can’t drill anymore holes ‘cause it might be a problem then I should talk to him about getting new boots on the store? I doubt it’ll happen. The FT1’s are on sale now at Sportchek for around $560. I’m in northern Alberta. 

[Sniper9 535]

41 minutes ago, Shogun said:

I wear a 8.5 shoe. The guy at the shop said he would fix my issue if I don’t like how they feel on the ice. If he can’t drill anymore holes ‘cause it might be a problem then I should talk to him about getting new boots on the store? I doubt it’ll happen. The FT1’s are on sale now at Sportchek for around $560. I’m in northern Alberta. 

What you decide to do if he can't fix it is entirely up to u... But the fact they mounted it the way they did shows they probably aren't reliable or knowledgeable to fix it any further. 

If they can't fix it if personally out the 254s back on and try to sell the skates on sidelineswap etc. But that's just me. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Sniper9

[stick9 896]

3 hours ago, Shogun said:

I tried that, didn’t like it. Mind you, I didn’t try it for long, hahah. I have no patience, apparently. 

How you liking battling with the shop over the holder swap......

[Shogun 19]

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

How you liking battling with the shop over the holder swap......

It’s cool. 

[Left Wing King 51]

I'd bin 'em off and start again. Sounds like you're chasing endless problems, needlessly. 

[stick9 896]

1 hour ago, Left Wing King said:

I'd bin 'em off and start again. Sounds like you're chasing endless problems, needlessly. 

That or just put the original holders back on and give that profiling thing another chance.

At this point I might just eat the cost of the swap and send them to someone who can actually fix it, like JR.

[Sniper9 535]

Enlarged rivet holes is a endless prob. It's why most newer skates with carbon soles have problems. Esp with true. Swapping holders that don't line up completely, ur risking constant rivet issues. That's what I had with my old pair of trues. Now withe my current pair where they were drilled for the holders I have I've had no signs of any rivet issues after a month, whereas I'd have loose rivets after almost every game before. 

[Shogun 19]

The right skate is good. You can tell the person drilled new holes. It’s the left skate that’s off 2-3mm’s. You can tell there is only 1 new hole drilled (heel). The place I got this shady job done is called Pro Skate in Edmonton, Alberta. There is two locations in the city. One in the south and west. The one I went to is in the south. Buddy said he’ll fix my issue, but I won’t be going back to them. 

 

[BearCat 1]

Going 'UP' a size on a set of holders is rarely a bad decision.  This is done at all levels of hockey.  Especially effective with players that have a smaller foot (skate) size.  I have a customer that is 10 years old (TRUE skates) and skates like an NHL'er.  On the ice 5 days a week.  I changed his holders a size longer, when his father wanted to buy LS5 steel.  The player immediately noticed more speed and stability with very little change in maneuverability, transitions, etc.   I always use the KISS principle.  There is simply way too much 'boiling of the ocean' going on out there in Hockeyland.  I would recommend Bauer EDGE holders with LS4 or LS5 steel.....or any of STEP Steel's steel.  I always recommend skating on the 'factory' or (steel supplier's) PROFILE when trying out your new skates.  Especially if changing brands, models, or custom skate orders.  Even holder types affect your skating.  Especially newer type holder designs, with pitch and stiffness.  This 'newness' creates numerous variables (both actual and imagined) that will get into your 'head'.  So, be patient, give yourself and your Skate Tech a chance to get you onto the right track.  It's a PROCESS for serious skaters/players.  Don't be in a RUSH to have 'stuff' done to your skates, holders and steel.  We have a 'GURU' here in my city who makes a fortune with diagnosing 'pronation' and 'supination'.  Installs clay and leather shimming inside heels of boots......you name it.  MOST completely unnecessary!!!

In short......go at changes slowly and methodically.  The steel mentioned above comes factory LASER cut at a 10 foot, neutral profile.  If you are skating on a 9-9.5 foot profile NOW.....just leave the 10 foot to TRY the skates.  Possibly simply have the Skate Tech take a SMALL abount off of the rear working radius of the steel.  Blend in the rear inch. or so of the steel so that you are comfortable immediately with transitions and reverses.  KEEP IT SIMPLE to start off !!!

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by BearCat

[Vet88 674]

19 hours ago, BearCat said:

 We have a 'GURU' here in my city who makes a fortune with diagnosing 'pronation' and 'supination'.  Installs clay and leather shimming inside heels of boots......you name it.  MOST completely unnecessary!!!

I just feel sorry for the victims this "GURU" is selling his snake oil to. 

[BearCat 1]

Quote

Always have your skate tech, or shop install COPPER rivets in the back rivet holes of the FRONT sole plate of your holders.  Many places only 'Copper' the rear holes on the very back of the boot.  This is VERY important, on all re-rivet jobs........especially on TRUE skates.  True skates are known to have 'weak' riveting.  Why???  Because of their GREAT monocoque and very STIFF boot and 'wrap around' design.  MOST players.....at all levels, do NOT remove their footbeds from TRUE skates after EACH skating session.  Also, TRUE skates have a thin, non-breathable, additional red coloured liner (for germicidal reasons?) placed between the soleplate and footbed.  The lack of players REMOVING this 'liner' and their footbed cause a considerable amount of moisture to be retained against the rivets in the bottom of the skate.  Rivets are made of steel (painted black and with a hollow core.   Steel rivets RUST, weaken and crumble.  In TRUE skates, the steel rivets RUST out very quickly.  Mostly because without removing the footbeds and 'liner' EVERY skate to dry, the rivets simply rust, deteriorate and come loose very quickly.  True skates are GREAT !!!  But, again......few players REMOVE the footbeds because it's a MAJOR pain to get them (and the liners) out and back in, because of the wrap-a-round design.  I work on TRUE skates all the time.  I always take the red  'liner' out and cut a 1 X 3 inch rectangle out of the CENTER of that red liner.  I also drill a few holes in the footbed.....to allow wicking out of moisture while a player skates.  But......this is NOT enough to prevent a constant film of water to remain inside the skate.....against and inside the steel rivets.  It might be a total pain......but TRUE  owners should take the time to remove footbeds and that goofy red liner EVERY skate.  Or have EVERY rivet replaced with copper!!!  If you own TRUE skates take that footbed and liner out.  You will find considerable WATER inside that boot!!!  Look at the rivets.  Every steel rivet in the bottom of the inside of the skate will be surrounded by a rusty circle.  The rivets will be rusting and crumbling and starting to loosen.  It does not take long for this to occur.  REMOVE the footbeds and liner !!!  TRUE (VH) skates should consider using ALUMINUM rivets in their skates (in addition to using 4 COPPER rivets in the heel and front sole plate 'stress points' of each skate.  In the NHL an equipment managers job is to REMOVE the footbeds and liners in players skates.  This takes about 3 seconds of time per skate on every skate except TRUE skates.  It takes MINUTES to remove a TRUE skate liner, using complete loosening of the laces, wrestling with the removable skate tongue and using a small pry tool to lift the footbed.  They throw away the thin red liner.

 

[BearCat 1]

One more thing.  Never allow the original, or oversized rivet holes to interfere with any holder replacement positioning.  When switching holder designs, stepping up in length, etc.,  holes will seldom line up.  Many times holes will be 'close' and require some reaming.  This can cause weakness, using COPPER rivets, or installing rivets that seat on an angle.  Use a products that can FILL the old holes.  Very easily done and stronger than steel, when applied with care.  These products come from your hardware store.  You slice off a thin piece (off the roll of material) and roll it around in your fingers to 'mix' it.  The material is IMMEDIATELY worked into the rivet holes and smoothed out.  You have about 2 minutes (tops) to do this,  Within a few minutes the stuff is PERMANENTLY in there and ready to drill.  When pressed in, worked and smoothed and blended into the skate soleplate, it is smooth, flush and stronger than the soleplate.  I call this a 'fill and drill'.  I have to charge for this (charge by the hole), but it WORKS flawlessly.  

[Giltis 116]

Yeah I've recently started taking out the footbeds from Trues every single time I'm done skating.

It only took once out of curiosity to see how much sweat was retained in the skate.

[Sniper9 535]

On 8/13/2019 at 5:02 AM, BearCat said:

One more thing.  Never allow the original, or oversized rivet holes to interfere with any holder replacement positioning.  When switching holder designs, stepping up in length, etc.,  holes will seldom line up.  Many times holes will be 'close' and require some reaming.  This can cause weakness, using COPPER rivets, or installing rivets that seat on an angle.  Use a products that can FILL the old holes.  Very easily done and stronger than steel, when applied with care.  These products come from your hardware store.  You slice off a thin piece (off the roll of material) and roll it around in your fingers to 'mix' it.  The material is IMMEDIATELY worked into the rivet holes and smoothed out.  You have about 2 minutes (tops) to do this,  Within a few minutes the stuff is PERMANENTLY in there and ready to drill.  When pressed in, worked and smoothed and blended into the skate soleplate, it is smooth, flush and stronger than the soleplate.  I call this a 'fill and drill'.  I have to charge for this (charge by the hole), but it WORKS flawlessly.  

It's funny how many shops don't know about this. I literally emailed every major hockey shop in the vancouver and all said there was NO way to fill the holes of my skates and re drill holes... I specifically asked regarding my first pair of true skates so I'm not sure if they just didn't have experience working with the one piece boot vs ones with outsoles, but it would seem like the idea would pretty much be the same and wouldn't matter whether the skate was one piece or not. 

[gosinger 122]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:02 PM, BearCat said:

These products come from your hardware store.  You slice off a thin piece (off the roll of material) and roll it around in your fingers to 'mix' it.  The material is IMMEDIATELY worked into the rivet holes and smoothed out.  You have about 2 minutes (tops) to do this,  Within a few minutes the stuff is PERMANENTLY in there and ready to drill.

Just to make sure, you are talking about something like Epoxy putty, right?

[colins 246]

3 hours ago, gosinger said:

Just to make sure, you are talking about something like Epoxy putty, right?

 

Sounds like this stuff: https://www.jbweld.com/collections/epoxy-putty-sticks/products/plasticweld-epoxy-putty

 

[stick9 896]

2 minutes ago, colins said:

 

Sounds like this stuff: https://www.jbweld.com/collections/epoxy-putty-sticks/products/plasticweld-epoxy-putty

 

That was my thought as well. I've used it before but not on skates. 

There are lots of options, most of which from the automotive industry. For example... 

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/resin-gel-silicone-adhesive/epoxy-resin/black-epoxy-repair-filler-for-carbon-fibre.html

[BearCat 1]

Yes..... Any epoxy-resin type product.  Set in the rivet hole and work a small, amount (a thin smear) on the inside of the boot.  That helps HOLD the stuff from popping out when you drill new rivet holes.  Use a sharp bit and EASY pressure. Works great. 

[VegasHockey 1282]

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

That was my thought as well. I've used it before but not on skates. 

There are lots of options, most of which from the automotive industry. For example... 

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/resin-gel-silicone-adhesive/epoxy-resin/black-epoxy-repair-filler-for-carbon-fibre.html

 

22 minutes ago, BearCat said:

Yes..... Any epoxy-resin type product.  Set in the rivet hole and work a small, amount (a thin smear) on the inside of the boot.  That helps HOLD the stuff from popping out when you drill new rivet holes.  Use a sharp bit and EASY pressure. Works great. 

As mentioned above. Work it into the holes. I personally like to mix some crushed carbon fiber into it and then smear it a bit on the inside and outside to lock the epoxy in. If you want to make it look really nice you can wet sand it to a nice glossy finish. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Nicholas G

[VegasHockey 1282]

2 hours ago, colins said:

 

Sounds like this stuff: https://www.jbweld.com/collections/epoxy-putty-sticks/products/plasticweld-epoxy-putty

 

I would suggest using an epoxy rated at least 900 PSI or higher.