CCM FT4 Pro Skates - eyelets wrecked first use

[colins 246]

 

Brand new, first game in FT4 Pro skates & eyelets popped & shifted. Anyone else experience this? Over baked maybe?

 

[Sniper9 529]

Either over baked via time or temp or both and or laces cranked during bake. Or all of the above. Or walking or leaning too much when the boot was still warm. From the pic all the eyelets shown even in the forefoot area damaged. No idea why they are pulled upwards though. Makes me think it was already damaged prior to your game and it was cranked on upwards during the bake and not from the actual ice time. 

Either way it's botched and you're lucky it has a 90 day guarantee. It's weird you didn't notice some kind of damage before skating on them because I'd find it odd that just from playing alone, a day or more after the bake would wreck the facing like that. 

Did you bake them yourself or did the store? If the store did then at least you'll be safe from all liability and warranty issues ccm might kick back at you. 

Imo all skates should be baked the way true recommends with their skates in terms of using a stretch wrap as it'll save the eyelets from over tightening during the bake. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Sniper9

[beedee 227]

That’s brutal. 

[RodneyPierce 11]

1 minute ago, beedee said:

That’s brutal. 

big time.  I'm honestly not sure how this would even happen.  Unless it happened during the bake by pulling the laces too tight.  I don't see this happening during the first game.

[pgeorgan 76]

Probably just quality control with CCM. Nobody is perfect. 

When your recommended baking temp is 45 degrees hotter than the competition in the name of "thermoformability", this is the end result. 

It's all made in China anyway. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 529]

8 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Probably just quality control with CCM. Nobody is perfect. 

When your recommended baking temp is 45 degrees hotter than the competition in the name of "thermoformability", this is the end result. 

It's all made in China anyway. 

You're such an idiot. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Hmm. Yeah maybe the Chinese have not yet figured out how to use an eyelet machine. 

[Gswift 33]

[start_today 770]

Between racism and the need to constantly start petty arguments about everything, some new people don’t fit this board and I hope they can change or they get asked not to post here. 

[pgeorgan 76]

3 hours ago, start_today said:

Between racism and the need to constantly start petty arguments about everything, some new people don’t fit this board and I hope they can change or they get asked not to post here. 

 MSH talks about it here. Seems it hasn't been fixed yet. 

If you want very lite, one-piece boot, there are other considerations, as well. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by pgeorgan

[colins 246]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

 MSH talks about it here. Seems it hasn't been fixed yet. 

If you want very lite, one-piece boot, there are other considerations, as well. 

 

The first link is actually my thread... but that issue was with the cheap CCM stamped eyelets in the original Jetspeed.

Went with the FT4 Pro this time due to the enhanced feature of all brass eyelets. Didn't exactly pan out.

 

 

[Sniper9 529]

1 hour ago, colins said:

 

The first link is actually my thread... but that issue was with the cheap CCM stamped eyelets in the original Jetspeed.

Went with the FT4 Pro this time due to the enhanced feature of all brass eyelets. Didn't exactly pan out.

 

 

Such bad luck since both issues are a result of different things. This one is def improper baking. Did you contact the place where you purchased it from. I sure hope you didn't bake it yourself as that might put u in a predicament in terms of the warranty and satisfaction guarantee 

[colins 246]

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Such bad luck since both issues are a result of different things. This one is def improper baking. Did you contact the place where you purchased it from. I sure hope you didn't bake it yourself as that might put u in a predicament in terms of the warranty and satisfaction guarantee 

 

These were baked in store where they were purchased. Not mine, these are my son's skates, I wasn't there at the time so I don't know how long they baked them for.

In any case, agree this seems like a botched bake job - over heated and over tightened by the looks of it.

[pgeorgan 76]

17 minutes ago, colins said:

These were baked in store where they were purchased. Not mine, these are my son's skates, I wasn't there at the time so I don't know how long they baked them for.

In any case, agree this seems like a botched bake job - over heated and over tightened by the looks of it.

I checked your post history and correct me if I'm wrong, this is the third pair of Jetspeeds you've experienced this issue with? If the store baked them then for sure you're in the clear. However, I thought those skate-specific machines were designed so that you couldn't over bake them? Who knows. 

What confuses me is, how is there any space for the eyelets to shift? Or did the metal just bend. With the exception of the top eyelet, it's solid carbon fiber there, is it not? What I mean is, you're not going to melt carbon fiber in a skate oven. Simply won't happen. Can't really melt metal, either.

What is the design that has resulted in this, then? Even in the instance of over-baking, you'd expect some solid brass eyelets to stay put in a thick carbon fiber boot.

Curious, what league is your son in now? 

Edited January 23, 2023 by pgeorgan

[colins 246]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:02 AM, pgeorgan said:

I checked your post history and correct me if I'm wrong, this is the third pair of Jetspeeds you've experienced this issue with? If the store baked them then for sure you're in the clear. However, I thought those skate-specific machines were designed so that you couldn't over bake them? Who knows. 

What confuses me is, how is there any space for the eyelets to shift? Or did the metal just bend. With the exception of the top eyelet, it's solid carbon fiber there, is it not? What I mean is, you're not going to melt carbon fiber in a skate oven. Simply won't happen. Can't really melt metal, either.

What is the design that has resulted in this, then? Even in the instance of over-baking, you'd expect some solid brass eyelets to stay put in a thick carbon fiber boot.

Curious, what league is your son in now? 

 

To clarify - I've had issues with the black CCM stamped logo eyelets corroding and failing. Never a brass eyelet. Never due to baking. They fail over the course of the season due to corrosive sweat eating away the thin eyelet material. The brass eyelets have never exhibited this problem.

The FT4 Pro has all brass eyelets. This failure is day 1, unrelated to sweat exposure/corrosion.

To be fair to CCM, it's probably the 5th pair of JetSpeed skates he's had since the very first JetSpeeds debuted. He's coming from a pair of FT2's to these. Every pair with the stamped eyelets have corroded, but I was able to get more life out of them by treating with some rust proofing coating - Corrosion Free (Formula 3000) and by inspecting them frequently and replacing an eyelet as they started to spin/disintegrate, well before the lace would rip through the boot.

We really thought the FT4 Pro was the end of this issue - all brass eyelets would mean no more corroding. Then this happens.

He plays D3. Thankfully I'm not out of pocket for these skates either way. Just looking for solutions in case he does get a replacement pair, and hopefully to avoid needing to switch to Bauer which he hasn't worn in 6+ years.

Edited January 24, 2023 by colins

[pgeorgan 76]

4 minutes ago, colins said:

 

Yes and to be fair to CCM, it's probably the 5th pair of JetSpeed skates he's had since the very first JetSpeeds debuted. He's coming from a pair of FT490s to these. Every pair with the stamped eyelets have corroded, but I was able to get more life out of them by treating with Corrosion Free (Formula 3000) and by inspecting them frequently and replacing an eyelet as they started to spin/disintegrate, well before the lace would rip through the boot.

I really thought the FT4 Pro was the end of that hassle - all brass eyelets would mean no more rusting. Then this happens.

He plays D3. Thankfully I'm not out of pocket for these skates either way. Just looking for solutions in case he does get a replacement pair, and hopefully to avoid needing to switch to Bauer which he hasn't worn in 6+ years.

So this didn't happen in-store, but out on the ice? Weird. 

What solutions are there if the skate is brand new? Probably none. The FT6's look identical to the new AS-V's, so maybe not drilling directly into the carbon fiber boot might solve some of these issues. I wonder if CCM aren't having some regrets about the totally one-piece boot design.  

[Sniper9 529]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

I checked your post history and correct me if I'm wrong, this is the third pair of Jetspeeds you've experienced this issue with? If the store baked them then for sure you're in the clear. However, I thought those skate-specific machines were designed so that you couldn't over bake them? Who knows. 

What confuses me is, how is there any space for the eyelets to shift? Or did the metal just bend. With the exception of the top eyelet, it's solid carbon fiber there, is it not? What I mean is, you're not going to melt carbon fiber in a skate oven. Simply won't happen. Can't really melt metal, either.

What is the design that has resulted in this, then? Even in the instance of over-baking, you'd expect some solid brass eyelets to stay put in a thick carbon fiber boot.

Curious, what league is your son in now? 

Skate ovens are literally smaller convection ovens. You set the timer and temp, so yes you can mess things up if you don't say the timer or temp properly. 

Secondly, carbon itself isn't thernoformable so there's always some kind of plastic mixed in there to allow for pliability. The eyelets are never full carbon. They get warm and soft and when the eyelets are cranked it pulls the plastic which causes the result in the picture in this post. 

But you probably knew all this already from your track record

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 76]

45 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

But you probably knew all this already from your track record

I've never blown any eyelets, to my knowledge. 

The Bauer one you just turn the timer knob. Google images tells me the CCM one is similar. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 529]

38 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

I've never blown any eyelets, to my knowledge. 

The Bauer one you just turn the timer knob. Google images tells me the CCM one is similar. 

Even if some ovens only have a timer setting and preset temp,  if you bake for ten mins when you're supposed to bake for 3 mins, you'll will do damage 

[pgeorgan 76]

2 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Even if some ovens only have a timer setting and preset temp,  if you bake for ten mins when you're supposed to bake for 3 mins, you'll will do damage 

Good thing @Colin didn't order custom skates. 

[Sniper9 529]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

Good thing @Colin didn't order custom skates. 

What does that have to do with anything 

[pgeorgan 76]

3 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

What does that have to do with anything 

Because then he'd have busted custom skates that were baked for 10 minutes by the store employee...

At least with the retail he can be in an out in 5 minutes. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 529]

1 minute ago, pgeorgan said:

Because then he'd have busted custom skates that were baked for 10 minutes by the store employee...

At least with the retail he can be in an out in 5 minutes. 

Fair. 

[flip12 712]

4 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

So this didn't happen in-store, but out on the ice? Weird. 

What solutions are there if the skate is brand new? Probably none. The FT6's look identical to the new AS-V's, so maybe not drilling directly into the carbon fiber boot might solve some of these issues. I wonder if CCM aren't having some regrets about the totally one-piece boot design.  

From factory videos I’ve seen, eyelets are punched out, not drilled. It’s probably easier to get a clean cut that way, and I imagine drilling would stress the material beyond the eyelet area. RocketFrame composite is a kind of fibreglass blend if i remember right, only the Tacks mention carbon. That doesn’t change the contact surface qualities much, though, which makes me think of monocoque boots having rivet issues. Maybe there’s not enough tooth to the combo of smooth quarter panels and eyelet rings to hold on as well as when there’s some pleather facing there.

[pgeorgan 76]

20 minutes ago, flip12 said:

From factory videos I’ve seen, eyelets are punched out, not drilled. It’s probably easier to get a clean cut that way, and I imagine drilling would stress the material beyond the eyelet area. RocketFrame composite is a kind of fibreglass blend if i remember right, only the Tacks mention carbon. That doesn’t change the contact surface qualities much, though, which makes me think of monocoque boots having rivet issues. Maybe there’s not enough tooth to the combo of smooth quarter panels and eyelet rings to hold on as well as when there’s some pleather facing there.

Interesting. Ya I wasn't saying they were drilled in literally. I have no idea what the process is, I guess I'll have to go watch a custom CCM skate video. What I meant was the last part you said about going directly into the carbon fiber vs pleather.