In Between Senior and Intermediate Sticks

[puckpilot 312]

39 minutes ago, start_today said:

Doesn’t the stick that started at 63” now take more work to deflect to the same degree as the one that started off at 60”? 

Why would it? It's the same materials, same stick line, same brand, same height, same flex rating. Why would one stick be different than than the other? If instead of hockey sticks, what if I was talking about lengths of bamboo? If I cut one length of bamboo to be exactly the same length as another, all things being equal other than starting length, would you be asking that question?

True isn't changing the meaning of flex. The meaning has always been this. In trying to "help" people figure out what flex they should use, someone back in the day (my bet is someone in the marketing department) tried to dumb things down in a way that made flex rating and stiffness became interchangeable when they're not. Generally, this wouldn't be a problem if every stick came stock at the same height, but they don't. Hence why the example I gave can be confusing to some. Remember, according to that video, the flex rating is calculated at a distance of 1m. Stiffness takes into account the whole length of the object. Unfortunately, each stick doesn't come with a stiffness rating.

Edited February 22, 2023 by puckpilot

[BenBreeg 493]

The problem being, and it happens a lot, is that they are trying to be cute and engineery.  The only thing that matters to the end user is how much they can actually bend a stick at a given length and how that bend impacts their shot (primarily).  People use the word flex.  Just because they measure their rating at 1m and claim the flex doesn't change there (a true claim) doesn't really matter, because what we care about is how the stick behaves when the distance between the top hand and the blade on the ice changes- it gets stiffer if you reduce that distance from the original length.

Bringing an engineer onto a video is stupid.  There is a reason that when I put an engineer in front of a customer there is a very detailed briefing with them before (not a knock on engineers, I used to be one). 

[xstartxtodayx 343]

All we're missing now is a Virginia Tech Stick Flex study using incomplete half assed methods 🤣

[start_today 770]

9 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Why would it? It's the same materials, same stick line, same brand, same height, same flex rating. Why would one stick be different than than the other? If instead of hockey sticks, what if I was talking about lengths of bamboo? If I cut one length of bamboo to be exactly the same length as another, all things being equal other than starting length, would you be asking that question?

True isn't changing the meaning of flex. The meaning has always been this. In trying to "help" people figure out what flex they should use, someone back in the day (my bet is someone in the marketing department) tried to dumb things down in a way that made flex rating and stiffness became interchangeable when they're not. Generally, this wouldn't be a problem if every stick came stock at the same height, but they don't. Hence why the example I gave can be confusing to some. Remember, according to that video, the flex rating is calculated at a distance of 1m. Stiffness takes into account the whole length of the object. Unfortunately, each stick doesn't come with a stiffness rating.

Ok then, if those sticks now flex and play the exact same, did the 63” stick and the stick 60” stick play the exact same before cutting? 

Yes, but two pieces of bamboo to the same length and they feel the exact same. But, take two different lengths of bamboo and they feel different. It doesn’t make sense to rate a 3 foot piece of bamboo and a 1 foot piece of bamboo both 85, just because the feel the same at 1 foot. Or, fine, do that, but now we need a different designation for how the bamboo feels at 3 feet in length  

True can’t argue it both ways. You can’t both say a 63” 85 flex and a 60” 85 flex stick play the exact same, and then say if you cut the 63” down 3” it still plays the exact same. 

[puckpilot 312]

4 hours ago, start_today said:

Ok then, if those sticks now flex and play the exact same, did the 63” stick and the stick 60” stick play the exact same before cutting? 

Of course not. The longer stick will allow the player more leverage, making it easier to bend the stick.

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Yes, but two pieces of bamboo to the same length and they feel the exact same. But, take two different lengths of bamboo and they feel different. It doesn’t make sense to rate a 3 foot piece of bamboo and a 1 foot piece of bamboo both 85, just because the feel the same at 1 foot. Or, fine, do that, but now we need a different designation for how the bamboo feels at 3 feet in length  

It makes sense as a standardize way to describe a property of a specific material. It's similar to how meat is sold in dollars per pound or how some things are sold by the square foot. I agree that there's probably a better way to go about things with the public, but the cynic in me thinks there's other advantages to keeping things the same or at least obscured. They can now make sticks shorter, saving themselves money in the manufacturing process, but still present the facade of the sticks still being the same. And the public generally won't notice. What they will notice is not being able to find sticks with their preferred "bendy-rating." 

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True can’t argue it both ways. You can’t both say a 63” 85 flex and a 60” 85 flex stick play the exact same, and then say if you cut the 63” down 3” it still plays the exact same.

They say the flex rating doesn't change because it's a property of the material. They say the leverage changes as the length changes, and the change in leverage makes a stick easier or harder to bend.

[raganblink 82]

I think I've given myself a stroke reading this thread.

 

Flex/Stiffness = how much force you need to bend the stick. Bigger number = can't bend as far.

 

Technically I know that isn't correct, but for layman's terms and how 99.9% of hockey players understand "stick go bendy" that is what they mean.

 

 

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Back on thread, Bauer is releasing 65 flex to their Senior HL2 line this summer. I would expect on the S24 Nexus to have the same. Also currently available on custom 6 packs & myBauers. 

Other than that, Warrior & True offers 65 flex in Senior sticks (top-end)

CCM does not offer 65 in a Senior stick length (60"). You can do custom 60" 65 flex but it is with an Intermediate shaft, not senior shaft.

 

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Let's get back on topic, please. If you want to start a thread discussing how stick flexes are measured or whatever the conversation is, please go ahead. Thanks all :) 

[VegasHockey 1280]

21 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Let's get back on topic, please. If you want to start a thread discussing how stick flexes are measured or whatever the conversation is, please go ahead. Thanks all 🙂

Let's just blame Bauer for all of this, putting that stupid marking on the back of sticks 😛 

[Jbear 113]

Is it possible that a 60" and a 63" stick aren't manufactured identically, and that's why they play the same uncut?

[VegasHockey 1280]

18 hours ago, Jbear said:

Is it possible that a 60" and a 63" stick aren't manufactured identically, and that's why they play the same uncut?

No.