What Deal?

[Chadd 916]

I hereby rescind all previous optimism. The NHL is now about to destroy professional hockey in North America. If no deal is done by Monday night I do not expect one to ever get done. That would mean at least another year without NHL hockey. Hopefully the WHA will be starting up so I have something to watch next year because the NHL as we know it will not exist ever again if they don't get this done.

[Dan_The_Man_16 0]

I say the agreeing owners start their own league, leaving out the owners who won't agree. I guess they won't be making ANY money then, let alone $600K.

[Dan_The_Man_16 0]

It should me a majority vote for tehe CBA and if a team won't accept it after that then it should be their choice to fold. If that many teams can agree on somthing don't let the others spoil it.

[Jim A 4]

Well even if there was the rollback and then cap, how are teams supposed to absorb these players that supposedly would get cut or released by their teams..it won't be the multmillionaires..but a slew of overpaid 3rd and 4th line players that each team already has...who is Dallas going to jettison, Guerin or a couple 2-3mil guys that have been the beneficiaries of the inflation?

even a team like NJ which has had a great team concept in place for the past 15 or so years now..would have to jettison people..

but teams like Pit, Col, etc..still aren't going to be able to afford to pick these people when the collapse comes...

the NHL will be around next year..but if you want to see anything other than your regional/local team and live in the US...you'll have to get the package..

personally, I'd love to see the NHL pony up after they lose their national package and just buy time on a network, something like Tues nights..where they showcase a good matchup..won't happen..but hey..I can daydream..

its sad when the most publicity the league gets is when there's no hockey

[MDE3 0]

I believe that there is another shoe yet to drop...and I still think all this is part of "a plan"....I think there may be more than 5 or 6 teams who fall away through all this.....It may not be as radical as I have previously suggested, but there is definitely a different agenda out there for some of the teams.

You have to believe that the people at the top of the feed chain did not get quite so successfull by being totally dumb...You cannot assume that any of this was not "predictable"....and that no one knew this would happen or realizes the apparent impact....I maintain that all we are seeing is deliberately being orchestrated...not necessarily by all the "players" (not referring to hockey players) though.

Maybe I am giving someone too much credit here, but I cannot believe that the consequences you have all predicted (and I agree with most of those projections for a "status quo" league) were invisible or desireable to the remaining owners....so the logical sequence, is that something else is going on which will help offset all that.

There is no doubt that some individuals ..like Lemieux and Gretzky may get seriously mauled through all this....

As I have so frequently stated..... there is a game "afoot".....

[Chadd 916]

I honestly think it's just a matter of each owner doing only what's best for their team. I don't think they care about what's best for the league or the other franchises.

The big guys want no revenue sharing, that explains why the small market teams are playing hardball with arbitration and a hard cap. They're each looking out for themselves and their business and not the overall health and viability of the league.

[Jim A 4]

I'd say its unfair to slam Hicks for wanting to sell his teams, he is also looking at selling the Rangers....and no one wants to buy a team that doesn't have potential for a profit..but he's on the hook for some big salaries..

He tried to keep up with the big boys, couldn't do it..in either sport..and when some of his big $ signings didn't do up to par..they couldn't overcome it..although i feel bad for Turgeon..he goes from being the #1 guy on his old team..gets a good contract..then gets to the #2 or #3PP unit and 60% of the ice time..yet puts up 2/3 of his previous numbers..not too bad..but gets railroaded..

Hicks has done a lot to build hockey in the area, there are rinks all over the place and the game has taken hold at the lowest levels...if he wants to sell that's his perrogative..but its not like he's sat there for years like Jacobs (who turned me away from the B's ) and Wirtz (no local TV deal to make people go to games) and just pocketed cash hand over fist..

[Shrek 0]

Apparently, a select few owners are killing the chance for this to work.

I keep hearing Calgary as one of the problem organizations.

There was somthing on TSN about if the deal get's done that the Oiler's wanted to drop out of the NHL for up to 2 or 3 seasons because they couldn't afford it. I can't remember for sure what is was, but it was the Oiler's. Anyone else remember hearing this or have any info on it?

[Eazy_b97 1]

I'd say its unfair to slam Hicks for wanting to sell his teams, he is also looking at selling the Rangers....and no one wants to buy a team that doesn't have potential for a profit..but he's on the hook for some big salaries..

I can't believe aNyone woiuld want to unload the Rangers, last I heard they had a $60 mill a year deal with Coke for ads on the ice and in the Arena. That covers their salaries basically.

The more that leaks out the angrier I get. I just wanted to see hockey, because I cannot see us ever having the oppurtunity to see the best players in the world playing for the Stanley Cup in the same manner if they kill the season. The only people who are still interested are people who will always be interested, rule changes or no rule changes, they have lost the fans they tried the past few years to win over. I personally hope it leads to contraction, and leaves only those teams who can survive in the past CBA regardless of whether there is a cap in place. They have tried to force hockey into areas, while at the same time moving it from areas which wanted it. When you remove a team from a city then 8-10 years later make a new one fdor them thats a bullshit cash grab. The game was never really about money, I have my own philosophies of why it has gotten this way, but its neither the time nor place. It is just frustrating. We are all fans, and whether we wanted a season or not, the frustration continues as we have 0 conrol over this process, will have 0 control over ticket prices when they come back and 0 control over what we get to watch and why.

[ponty 0]

IF the league does come back I would like to see the 5 or 6 teams in question treated like the ugly sisters they are.

Hmmmm Boston you need to make a trade for a D-man. Dont think so.

Just pisses me off.

[Eazy_b97 1]

So how did these teams end up wanting a Salary cap after stacking up in the off-season and at the deadline? Didn't pan out? This whole situation just confuses the hell out of me.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

I can't believe aNyone woiuld want to unload the Rangers, last I heard they had a $60 mill a year deal with Coke for ads on the ice and in the Arena. That covers their salaries basically.

Tom Hicks owns the MLB Texas Rangers.

[Jim Bob 0]

I hereby rescind all previous optimism. The NHL is now about to destroy professional hockey in North America. If no deal is done by Monday night I do not expect one to ever get done. That would mean at least another year without NHL hockey. Hopefully the WHA will be starting up so I have something to watch next year because the NHL as we know it will not exist ever again if they don't get this done.

How about the 20-24 owners who are perfectly fine with the figures somehow create their own league? (As Dan said)

I can't believe they can put everything on hold for 6 or so teams out of 30. And then abolish the rev sharing system which is one thing that can help those teams.

Sorry for dwelling on this, but you really start to put the pieces together now (Although it does coincide with my views all along).

There was a report in the Toronto Globe and Mail that at least 10 and maybe as many as 20 owners were upset that Bettman went up to $42.5 million in his last offer.

And that Bettman only went that high in an attempt to save the season.

Glenn Healy even pointed out that Tom Hicks, the Dallas owner, has emperged as another hard liner with Jacobs in Boston and Wirtz in Chicago.

I think the fractures amongst ownership are being vastly overstated this time around. Especially since the only place I'm hearing such talk is coming from Ted Saskin.

[Jim Bob 0]

Lindin is the one who organized this meeting, the league set the date, and league changed their mind once the players get there. haha, I'm not even going to say it. Its clear as night and day what has gone on here and the reason there is no hockey this season. And its an outright travesty. 52 million DOWN 9 million to 43. The owners moved up 1 million to 3, and still couldn't agree. You do he math.

The salary cap number was never even discussed on Saturday.

The only things they talked about were non-cap number issues like arbitration, qualifying offers, the rookie cap, and revenue sharing.

One joke that nobody seems to be bringing up is the NHLPA's stance that they don't want linkage, but that they want the cap number to go up if revenues increase.

Hello?

You want the reward of an increased cap number if the business improves, but you are unwilling to take the risk that the cap number goes down if the business gets worse?

Sorry, but that's like me going to stock broker and saying that I want to buy a stock that is guaranteed to not decrease in value even if the company is run into the ground.

The NHLPA can not have their cake and eat it to on this issue. If they want the cap number to increase if revenue increase, then they need to accept the risk side of a linkage system. Expecting only upside linkage is a bad joke.

And to me, it's just as bad a joke as the NHL's take on revenue sharing.

[Jim Bob 0]

From Eklund:

http://hockeyrumors.blogspot.com/

An email from a well respected hockey writer that covers an NHL team with an storied history..

###############################################

Topic:Saturday

The more I think about today, the more I agree with the players. A majority would probably vote for 43 million, but the league is treating them like chattel, not skilled players who, quite frankly, are the product.

What Saturday showed is that a group of owners were willing to throw two of the greatest names in the sport and two people in which the league owes everything to under the bus. This was an embarassment from the league. Cap stays at 42.5 for the length of the contract, no matter what revenues are? No basement? Revenue-sharing, as little as it was, diminishes yearly? That's an offer Henry Ford would have made to his workers in 1910.

If this league can't operate on a $45 million salary cap and $30 million basement, it needs to dissolve. If 20 teams can make it work and 10 can't--then those 10 teams have to disappear.

Today was a fraud and I blame the owners completely. You cannot tell me that this is what 99 and 66 were talking about for the last two days.

Sick of the whole thing. If I never cover another NHL game again, that's fine with me. The people running this league are not only imcompetent, they are evil.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/40877.htm

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/s...0p-242254c.html

If you're going to quote Eklund:

http://hockeyrumors.blogspot.com/2005/02/n...y-emerging.html

A New Theory Emerging

We may owe the NHL a bit of an apology. I have confirmed aspects of this next story with five different sources, all who have heard elements of it..we may never be sure if this is what happened, I sure hope none of it is....I 'd like to be told otherwise...

Let's go back to last week on Wednesday night.

Shortlty after the season is cancelled a group of players, many with ties to Phoenix, start a grass routs movement to make a new counter offer. They were fuel by Bettman's(not so) cryptic statements in the cancelling press conference. He left a window opened and the players, realizing the grave personal hit they would take by not playing a season, started a mutiny. Thursday, rumors swirl in the press that Lemieux and Gretzky are brokering a deal...talking to owners, and players alike in an honest attempt to save the sport they built on their own shoulders. But the players are split in two (some say three) with the hardliners (no cappers.) on one side and the others (talking to Gretzky and Lemieux on the other) The resentment for Gretzky and Lemieux grows large as they are bing viewed as union breakers. About this time the NHLPA(no cappers) tells the NHL they have a new proposal they are working on. The NHL invites the PA to NY to discuss the proposal. The NHLPA(no cappers) accept, and Lemieux, Gretzky, and other big owners continue to lobby Bettman to move off of the 42.5 number. The NHLPA (no cappers) invite Gretzky and Lemieux to the talks, even though this the faction tha are furious at the two for trying to break the union. The NHLPA leaks through a few sources the false rumor that the NHL (with Mario and Wayne's push) have accepted the 45M, and that they are going to NY to sign the deal...this leak finds its way conveniently to ESPN and others(including myself). They even put a leak out that Goodenow has been fired(not true according to Gartner). The owners are calling up Bettman furious saying we can't do 45...Bettman and Daly say the rumors are false. The NHLPA shows up and doesn't make an offer at all. The NHL is confused, and comes off looking like they have gone back on their word. Leaks about teams turning down the 45 get out. Factis no offer was ever made at the Saturday meeting. The whole day looks to be staged by the PA (no cappers) as PR move. I hope this isn't true. Especially when you consider 66 and 99 were used as pawns...

This is just speculation after a long day of searching...if I am wrong, I will accept e-mails from either side at pelleeklund@hotmail.com...I want to be wrong about this...but I am relatively certain that no proposals were made on the day the NHL died. And that defies logic and leads me towards this conspiracy...I have received several e-mails from players saying they all feel sick about this. I don't blame the players at all...But we deserve to know answers as to why you let this season go...Other rumors abound about teams just "not wanting to play this year" so there is plenty of fault to go around.

What happened in the 6 1/2hours that you talked? Why was the PC called and then stopped last second? I have never seen two sides meet for so many hours over the past two weeks and always say "no progress."

[Jim Bob 0]

In the history of Pro Sports, never has a salary cap been collectively bargained until now. I think it does show the majority of players want to play and are willing to make concessions.

Other times, the union had to be broken to implement a salary cap.

That's not entirely true. That's NHLPA spin-meistering at it's finest.

The NBA's cap system was gained through the same type of hardnosed negotiating that finally got the NHLPA to cave on the issue.

The NFLPA got a cap shoved down their throats because that was a strike situation and they were found by a judge to have been the side that was negotiating in bad faith.

Besides, I don't view the NHLPA's salary cap offer as a real offer.

To me, that cap offer is about as valid as if the NHL had offered up a luxury tax system that kicked in at $25 million with the tax being a $1 for dollar from $25 to 30 million, $2 from $30 to 35M, $3 from $35 to 40M, etc.

It would have been a luxury tax. But it was so patently absurd that there was no chance that the other side would consider it for more than a minute.

But, the problem with this whole process is that both sides are really fractured.

I have no doubt that both the NHL and the NHLPA would have wide splits if they put both the NHL's last offer and the NHLPA's last offer up to a vote to both membership groups.

There are a bunch of players that will shoot down any cap offer and there are a bunch of players that would take the NHL's offer because they just want and need to play right now because they are hurting financially.

And on the other hand there are plenty of owners that will take the NHLPA's last offer because they were doing fine under the old CBA and there are a good number of owners that won't even take the NHL's last offer because they feel that $42.5M is too high and they want linkage because they feel that revenue will take a hit and they'll want the cap number to come down if that is indeed the case.

[Jim Bob 0]

NHL's cost certainty is actually= Profit certainty. I think 42, 43, or 45 would have been fair enough. In what business are you guarenteed profits anyways? Survival of the fittest.

The NFL :D

[Chadd 916]

NHL's cost certainty is actually= Profit certainty. I think 42, 43, or 45 would have been fair enough. In what business are you guarenteed profits anyways? Survival of the fittest.

The NFL :D

Unless you are Art Modell

[mik3 1]

Bettman is on the radio right now saying the players never even made an offer over the weekend, they mainly just talked about arbitration.

[Chadd 916]

Bettman is on the radio right now saying the players never even made an offer over the weekend, they mainly just talked about arbitration.

Both sides are full of shit at this point. Don't listen to either of them.

[ponty 0]

Anyone still planning on wasting money going to NHL game next year ... if there is a next year?

[Jim Bob 0]

Bettman is on the radio right now saying the players never even made an offer over the weekend, they mainly just talked about arbitration.

Both sides are full of shit at this point. Don't listen to either of them.

Every report I've seen suggests that both sides entered the meeting expecting the other to bring up the magical $45 million number and it never happened.

Apparently the entire 6 1/2 hours was spent arguing over non-cap number issues like arbitration, qualifying offers, revenue sharing, the rookie cap, and such.

Apparently the NHLPA didn't read the fine print on the NHL's last offer. They were whining that they didn't know about some stuff that I had heard about that offer.

[Jim Bob 0]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/40286.htm

Players never talked about a cap this past weekend, and thats alarming and disgusting. What the hell were they thinking?

The NHLPA claims that they were called by the NHL to meet, so they expected the NHL to come up with a new offer (i.e. the cap at $45M).

The NHL claims that given all the rumors and reports that they were expecting the NHLPA to come up with a new offer (i.e. the cap at $45M).

And neither side brought the topic up at all.

But really, that just about sums up how dysfunctional this whole debacle has been from the get go.

[Jim Bob 0]

Anyone still planning on wasting money going to NHL game next year ... if there is a next year?

I'll probably go to the one game a year that I usually go to.

[DrMolotov 0]

I'll never pay to see a game again, and I will never buy a shirt, pack of hockey cards... etc. If someone gives me a ticket that's a different story.

My money will be spent on a season ticket package for the OHL's Mississauga Icedogs or maybe the Brampton Battallion.