NHL players in Graf

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Don't disagree, it's all about finding a happy medium. But at the pro level they're going to want what can perform first. And by you concentrating on that first solidifies my statement.

[hockeyfreak 0]

What makes Graf skates so comfortable anyway? Is it the type of liner they use, or because they are less stiff than other top model skates? Is Clarino really soft?

[rmnyi 0]

What makes Graf skates so comfortable anyway? Is it the type of liner they use, or because they are less stiff than other top model skates? Is Clarino really soft?

I have 709's 10W. For me, having a boot that really matches my foot is the most important part. That is why they are so comfortable. If the fit isn't right, I don't think the liner will make much difference. But yes, the clarino liner feels pretty good and completes the fit.

[epstud74 24]

I wouldnt go that far. Im guessing quite a few have the S9 configuration, but way more probably have skates based on the actual One90 or One 95.

Most NHLers that wear "NBH One90's" are just wearing Bauer 8050's made to look like One90's.

I'm the first one to say that Grafs look very plain, but skates are the most important piece of equipment and comfort is more important than look.

You don't have to look like everyone else, if you begin to have withdrawel from not having a swoosh on every inch of your body, you can always buy gloves or a stick or something.

^^^^I'm such a hypocrite--I love NIKE, but I'm still getting grafs in May.

[Steve123 0]

What makes Graf skates so comfortable anyway? Is it the type of liner they use, or because they are less stiff than other top model skates? Is Clarino really soft?

Look at how many different skates with different fits they make that are not just different levels of the same skate like NB: XXXX, XXV etc. It is because many people can find a skate that fits their foot with Graf. Also a lot of the time people complain about Graf it is because they bought the skate because it was cheap and it wasn't the right model for their foot. Then the other complaints are the holders and their awful Customer Service. When I got my first pair of Graf's they were the 705's and they were a barely used pair and they were the only Graf's in the shop, but they somehow were the perfect size for me and the only problem I ever had with them was one eyelet came out. I find that the clarino liner and mesh liner make no difference in feel with Graf's so it is all PP. IMO they are just great all-around skates.

[epstud74 24]

JR? What kind of noticeable performance are they looking for at the pro level? Durability? Weight? Comfort? Quality of steel? Protection? It would be interesting to see what custom options the best skaters in the NHL opt for.

[GrafPro55 0]

i saw a pair of Iginla's one90's. They were from last year or maybe the end of the previous year. A CCM wrapped in One90 cosmetics.

[monoclub 5]

I am a big fan of this site, because I am always learning things, that's what keeps me coming back. My original post in this thread was an effort to learn more not meant as an attack on Graf or to be rude, it was thoughtful and sincere. But in reply from you I get a one liner of sarcasm. I gave up on asking further after your resoponse because it was obvious I wasn't going to learn a damn from you.

Then I read the thread on skate marketing, man, after reading the ass kicking you got in there one would think you'd have learn't something, but you just can't help yourself can you. I'll add my vote to those who have told you, if you sign in as a Graf rep it is a very bad look when you take cheap shots at your competitors, but that is not nearly as bad as when you are so dismissive and rude to customers, or worse from your point of view a shop owner such as myself who stocks Graf as well as other brands.

You have done more damage to Graf this last weekend than you can possibly imagine, but I bet you'll be back at it when you read this.

Go ahead, pull the trigger!

[top_shelf_24 0]

I am a big fan of this site, because I am always learning things, that's what keeps me coming back. My original post in this thread was an effort to learn more not meant as an attack on Graf or to be rude, it was thoughtful and sincere. But in reply from you I get a one liner of sarcasm. I gave up on asking further after your resoponse because it was obvious I wasn't going to learn a damn from you.

Then I read the thread on skate marketing, man, after reading the ass kicking you got in there one would think you'd have learn't something, but you just can't help yourself can you. I'll add my vote to those who have told you, if you sign in as a Graf rep it is a very bad look when you take cheap shots at your competitors, but that is not nearly as bad as when you are so dismissive and rude to customers, or worse from your point of view a shop owner such as myself who stocks Graf as well as other brands.

You have done more damage to Graf this last weekend than you can possibly imagine, but I bet you'll be back at it when you read this.

Go ahead, pull the trigger!

I have yet to speak up in this thread, but I would just like to say I could not agree more.

To Tyler -- I feel great in my New Graf 705s. I have always wanted to try grafs, and although the arch does take a bit of getting used to for my flat foot, i am now 100% comfortable in them. I never thought I would ever have pain wearing these skates anymore until I began reading some of your posts on this board. By no means am I going to return my skates or stop wearing them, but I just thought I would tell you that as a customer, I expected a more professional approach from someone in your position. I do agree that this is an internet message board, and can be a place to make jokes and have fun, but I also think MSH is a great publicity opportunity for Hockey Company representatives like yourself. So far, IMO you have probably not helped Graf sell any skates during your time here on ModSquad.

Back to business: Im sure NHLers have tons of different approaches to being fitted in a skate. Look at guys like Modano, Kaberle and Chelios who still wear the old Tacks. I don't see those as skates which will outperform say a One95 or S15, but those players made their careers in those skates, and now feel comfortable in them. There are also tons of guys who change their skate whenever the newest model is released, to keep up with the performance half of skate fitting. JR or guys on here could probably answer epstud's question a little better, but I figured i would share my thoughts

[skates89 0]

Well Im a little late to this thread ha ha but Ill share my experience. Certain model grafs as you can see are lower cut boots. I have been skating a very long time over 30 years. I played a high level of hockey throughout those years and I can tell you I cannot skate in anything else as well as a Graf 705. I havent tried any of the G series but based on what I can see they might be to stiff. Todays skaters it seems skate off their hips and that is what is required if you put yourself into an X60. The boot feels like a cement wrap around your ankle. I cannot see how this helps with agility at all. I have tried them all and they are just to stiff for me. I skate off my ankles and Im way shiftier in this grafs than most of the counter parts I have meet.

This type of skate definitely is a skate that requires you to be an excellent skater off your ankles, if you know how to use them. I know for a fact id never want anything else. I have been in these high cut boots for two years since my old grafs took a crap but the day has come that I have finally spotted a pair of 705s and it wont be long till Im back on them. Definitely the best skate i have ever worn. Perhaps the best evidence of how you can skate in these is demonstrated below in this video of a man who wore old style grafs. I do not care how long you have been skating or what league you are in NHL included. You cannot get this mobility in a pair of X60s Your ankles are to locked the boot is to stiff and you cannot get that flex both laterally and forward wise. yeah it takes more energey to use these skates but if you are shifty with the puck and know how to use these the competition is in trouble. This is what you can do in a skate that allows your ankle to flex, take a look the guy is amazing. Oh and ps this is clear evidence that it isnt the skate only that makes the skater its the training and technique. You cannot imagine how this feels to skate like this. Where do you see anyone with that great mobility, you dont and you can get a pair of these on ebay for 50 bucks now, amazing

and as far as NHL players that wore Graf. Pavel Bure wore Graf 707s Case closed LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKTnQ5VYfA

[hockeymass 11]

I don't agree with your assessment that you can't skate like that in newer, stiffer skates. A video of an expert skating doesn't tell you a whole lot.

[nisselrm 21]

there are lots of different techniques out there. your blanket statements graf skates being essential are just false and frankly, I can point out physiological and technique issues within this video such as a lack of ankle roll to stepdown to the outside edge as well as not getting the shoulders/upperbody turbed during power turns and cross overs. This guy may have a lot on his resume for figure skating but his technique is either uniformed or simply out of date as there has essentially been a combination of russian and canadian skating taught in more recent, high level hockey.

[jimmy 194]

skates89, good assessment and I enjoyed the video. It's easy to advertise/hype up that a certain skate has "More Power" or "Agility", but it's even better to see that skate in action. I'd rather see an experienced skater in the video, this way we can see the maneuvers that the skate is capable of, and it removes the novice factor. My neighbor is the shop next door is a race driver. I guaranty he can do things in his car that I couldn't.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

and as far as NHL players that wore Graf. Pavel Bure wore Graf 707s Case closed LOL

When? I honestly can't remember Bure ever wearing Graf in the NHL.

Started out in 652s then Mega Air 90 then Bauer Air 90, then Vapor 8 and ended in Vapor 10.

Unless you can prove otherwise, case still open.

[hockeymass 11]

skates89, good assessment and I enjoyed the video. It's easy to advertise/hype up that a certain skate has "More Power" or "Agility", but it's even better to see that skate in action. I'd rather see an experienced skater in the video, this way we can see the maneuvers that the skate is capable of, and it removes the novice factor. My neighbor is the shop next door is a race driver. I guaranty he can do things in his car that I couldn't.

But it means nothing to the average skater. So what if this guy can do crazy awesome things in his Grafs? It doesn't mean that Grafs are essential for doing awesome things, nor does it mean that Grafs will make you do awesome things. It's a nice video, but it provides virtually no insight regarding the qualities specific to Graf skates.

[jimmy 194]

But it means nothing to the average skater. So what if this guy can do crazy awesome things in his Grafs? It doesn't mean that Grafs are essential for doing awesome things, nor does it mean that Grafs will make you do awesome things. It's a nice video, but it provides virtually no insight regarding the qualities specific to Graf skates.

I think it means a lot to the average skater. It doesn't necessarily mean they can do awesome things in them, but it does illustrate what the mechanics/design of the skate allow. A video of a Ferrari, maneuvering down a steep windy mountain road, does show the car has great steering, stability and response. This is why Jeep doesn't make those type videos, their car can't do that.

[hockeymass 11]

I think it means a lot to the average skater. It doesn't necessarily mean they can do awesome things in them, but it does illustrate what the mechanics/design of the skate allow. A video of a Ferrari, maneuvering down a steep windy mountain road, does show the car has great steering, stability and response. This is why Jeep doesn't make those type videos, their car can't do that.

There's no basis for comparison. So this guy does nice moves in a pair of Grafs. What does that really mean to me? Nothing. What can he do in a pair of Total Ones or Crazy Lights? It's the same thing as the ZC video you had in another thread. It's a nice video that shows what one person can do with a specific setup, but it's meaningless to illustrate the advantage of that setup over another setup.

[mack 44]

When? I honestly can't remember Bure ever wearing Graf in the NHL.

Started out in 652s then Mega Air 90 then Bauer Air 90, then Vapor 8 and ended in Vapor 10.

Unless you can prove otherwise, case still open.

[jimmy 194]

There's no basis for comparison. So this guy does nice moves in a pair of Grafs. What does that really mean to me? Nothing. What can he do in a pair of Total Ones or Crazy Lights? It's the same thing as the ZC video you had in another thread. It's a nice video that shows what one person can do with a specific setup, but it's meaningless to illustrate the advantage of that setup over another setup.

We get it, you don't think videos have any value. Others do and it's not meaningless to them. Comparing to another model is not needed if the commercial or video shows the capabilities of the product. Let the other company produce their own viedoe and show how their products perform.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I stand corrected.

Thanks, mack!

[hockeymass 11]

We get it, you don't think videos have any value. Others do and it's not meaningless to them. Comparing to another model is not needed if the commercial or video shows the capabilities of the product. Let the other company produce their own viedoe and show how their products perform.

Why do you get so heated when someone disagrees with you? Don't put words in my mouth, please. The video in this thread and the video you posted don't show anything about the capabilities of the product in question relative to the others on the market. That's fine, they weren't made as marketing material, but don't try to hold them up as an example of the strengths of the product. A video of a guy doing a backflip on an Arctic Cat snowmobile is a cool video, but it doesn't tell you anything about Arctic Cat snowmobiles relative to other snowmobiles. My issue is not the videos, my issue is with holding up the video as evidence of a superior product or drawing conclusions from the video that aren't supported by the video. There is nothing in that video that tells me why Graf skates are better than any other skate, and yet some people are holding it up as an example of why Grafs are the greatest. It's a logical fallacy.

[mack 44]

I stand corrected.

Thanks, mack!

No worries. I remember he had them in his rookie season as well so when I was older, I tried a pair on. They were just too damn soft.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Well Im a little late to this thread ha ha but Ill share my experience. Certain model grafs as you can see are lower cut boots. I have been skating a very long time over 30 years. I played a high level of hockey throughout those years and I can tell you I cannot skate in anything else as well as a Graf 705. I havent tried any of the G series but based on what I can see they might be to stiff. Todays skaters it seems skate off their hips and that is what is required if you put yourself into an X60. The boot feels like a cement wrap around your ankle. I cannot see how this helps with agility at all. I have tried them all and they are just to stiff for me. I skate off my ankles and Im way shiftier in this grafs than most of the counter parts I have meet.

This type of skate definitely is a skate that requires you to be an excellent skater off your ankles, if you know how to use them. I know for a fact id never want anything else. I have been in these high cut boots for two years since my old grafs took a crap but the day has come that I have finally spotted a pair of 705s and it wont be long till Im back on them. Definitely the best skate i have ever worn. Perhaps the best evidence of how you can skate in these is demonstrated below in this video of a man who wore old style grafs. I do not care how long you have been skating or what league you are in NHL included. You cannot get this mobility in a pair of X60s Your ankles are to locked the boot is to stiff and you cannot get that flex both laterally and forward wise. yeah it takes more energey to use these skates but if you are shifty with the puck and know how to use these the competition is in trouble. This is what you can do in a skate that allows your ankle to flex, take a look the guy is amazing. Oh and ps this is clear evidence that it isnt the skate only that makes the skater its the training and technique. You cannot imagine how this feels to skate like this. Where do you see anyone with that great mobility, you dont and you can get a pair of these on ebay for 50 bucks now, amazing

and as far as NHL players that wore Graf. Pavel Bure wore Graf 707s Case closed LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKTnQ5VYfA

Scott Niedermayer used One95s, and didn't have his career ended by knee injuries partly drawing from too soft a skate like some theorize Bure did.

[innotastic 12]

Scott Niedermayer used One95s, and didn't have his career ended by knee injuries partly drawing from too soft a skate like some theorize Bure did.

I believe it had as much to do with or more with the ACL injury he suffered mid 90s. He was never really given the adequate treatment and was rumoured as part of the reason he wanted out of vancouver. just providing the other side of the argument.

[skates89 0]

there are lots of different techniques out there. your blanket statements graf skates being essential are just false and frankly, I can point out physiological and technique issues within this video such as a lack of ankle roll to stepdown to the outside edge as well as not getting the shoulders/upperbody turbed during power turns and cross overs. This guy may have a lot on his resume for figure skating but his technique is either uniformed or simply out of date as there has essentially been a combination of russian and canadian skating taught in more recent, high level hockey.

Yeah Ok sure. You sound like you really know what you are talking about alright. Outdated ha LOL