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VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

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Wow, tongue adjustment helped a *lot*.  I didn't know that was an option.  Pulling the tongue way up so it's out of the toe box entirely, I'd say we're 85% of the way there in terms of fit.  A rebake and some breaking in might get us the rest of the way.  I might even want the red inserts back in.

 

Edit: Put the red inserts back in, 95% of the way there.  I think if I fiddle with the lacing a little more and rebake them, I might be very happy

Edited by no21kyle
even better than I thought
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1 hour ago, no21kyle said:

Wow, tongue adjustment helped a *lot*.  I didn't know that was an option.  Pulling the tongue way up so it's out of the toe box entirely, I'd say we're 85% of the way there in terms of fit.  A rebake and some breaking in might get us the rest of the way.  I might even want the red inserts back in.

 

Edit: Put the red inserts back in, 95% of the way there.  I think if I fiddle with the lacing a little more and rebake them, I might be very happy

Lol glad that simple fix helped alot.  The Trues all come with the tongues shoved into the toe box. I personally like it as I like almost no space in there but it's all preference. 

So the res insolea actually made your volume issues feel better? How?

If you also try over under lacing it does a lot less pressing down onto the tongue itself. I can't do over under bc it doesn't offer as snug of a feel for me. It does a great job locking the laces, but the under over gives me the tension I want against the tongue... So I'm pretty much the opposite problem as you!

 

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12 hours ago, no21kyle said:

OK, took out the red insole and the laces entirely.  My feet are pressing against the bottom and my heel is locked in the proper position.  I've still got a huge chunk of my foot sticking out above the eyelets:

afhddKL.jpg

Comically failing the pencil test:

2fxSWXL.jpg

Now I'll admit that I've never had skates that fit right so maybe I'm missing something, but that can't be right, can it?

 

Those look like thick socks. That sure won't help with volume. Rob from VH had told me that their skates had a "fudge factor" so they could be worn with or without socks. That tells me that they can be worn either barefoot or with very thin socks, so IMO wearing thick socks would be pushing the limits. So if moving the tongue doesn't fully solve your problem, you can always try thinner socks to get more volume.

Edited by Larry54

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Howdy,

Looks like he's failing the pencil test by what, like a 1/2"?  

I don't think tube socks are going to account for that.  🙂

Hope you can get the skates to work for you, regardless.


Mark

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I fail the pencil test in true skates but never had issues with lace bite. I figured it was due to me not actually having to tighten the skates much to get them to feel snug. I basically only tie up the top 3 eyelits.

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3 hours ago, Larry54 said:

Those look like thick socks. That sure won't help with volume. Rob from VH had told me that their skates had a "fudge factor" so they could be worn with or without socks. That tells me that they can be worn either barefoot or with very thin socks, so IMO wearing thick socks would be pushing the limits. So if moving the tongue doesn't fully solve your problem, you can always try thinner socks to get more volume.

I was going to mention the socks as well but couldn't really see how thick they are. If he is using typical athletic socks those can be pretty thick . I'd get a pair of socks meant specifically for hockey 

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3 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Looks like he's failing the pencil test by what, like a 1/2"?  

I don't think tube socks are going to account for that.  🙂

Hope you can get the skates to work for you, regardless.


Mark

Sock thickness can have a very noticeable factor in fitment. I can't use thinnies or my feet slide around in my skates like crazy. Could also be attributed to how slick the thinnies are as well. They feel almost too smooth. 

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Well after my 10th game and 2nd since moving the tongue more in the boot and adding a second red insert, I think I've finally perfected my fit.  I use the metatarsal tongue and when I first got them I thought the overall fit in the forefoot was a tad sloppy.  Moving it down I'm locked into place perfectly.  I do skip the eyelet second from the top and that has make a world of difference.  The thing I've noticed the most with the switch to True, my legs aren't sore the next day.  I really like these skates. 

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22 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Lol glad that simple fix helped alot.  The Trues all come with the tongues shoved into the toe box. I personally like it as I like almost no space in there but it's all preference. 

So the res insolea actually made your volume issues feel better? How?

If you also try over under lacing it does a lot less pressing down onto the tongue itself. I can't do over under bc it doesn't offer as snug of a feel for me. It does a great job locking the laces, but the under over gives me the tension I want against the tongue... So I'm pretty much the opposite problem as you!

 

It's not that the red insoles helped the depth issue, it's that the depth issue feels irrelevant now that the tongue isn't pressing down on my foot right behind the toes.  There's still not any depth, but the top of the skate feels like it's cupping my foot instead of pressing down on it.  I assume it just feels better with the red insoles because that's how it was baked.

The only thing I'm noticing from lack of depth right now is that it's physically impossible to get the laces through the eyelets once the skate is on.  I have to make sure all the eyelets are threaded before I put my foot in, which isn't a huge deal.  I can then tighten and loosen as needed.

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22 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Lol glad that simple fix helped alot.  The Trues all come with the tongues shoved into the toe box. I personally like it as I like almost no space in there but it's all preference. 

So the res insolea actually made your volume issues feel better? How?

If you also try over under lacing it does a lot less pressing down onto the tongue itself. I can't do over under bc it doesn't offer as snug of a feel for me. It does a great job locking the laces, but the under over gives me the tension I want against the tongue... So I'm pretty much the opposite problem as you!

 

When I was fighting with retail skates, what ended up helping me a decent amount was bar lacing.  It definitely buys some depth if you need it.  It (along with thinnies, thinner insoles, breaking in the tongue, and all the other tricks) just wasn't enough because I have *really* weird feet.

Edited by no21kyle

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2 hours ago, no21kyle said:

It's not that the red insoles helped the depth issue, it's that the depth issue feels irrelevant now that the tongue isn't pressing down on my foot right behind the toes.  There's still not any depth, but the top of the skate feels like it's cupping my foot instead of pressing down on it.  I assume it just feels better with the red insoles because that's how it was baked.

The only thing I'm noticing from lack of depth right now is that it's physically impossible to get the laces through the eyelets once the skate is on.  I have to make sure all the eyelets are threaded before I put my foot in, which isn't a huge deal.  I can then tighten and loosen as needed.

Makes sense. 

There are tweaks u can do to flare the eyelets out which make putting your foot in easier and also easier to thread the laces on the top two eyelets... I'd still rebake without the red insole to give you that bit more depth. 

Here's just a few vids that may help you. There's more if you go to their channel. 

 

 

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On 9/25/2019 at 6:28 PM, no21kyle said:

OK, took out the red insole and the laces entirely.  My feet are pressing against the bottom and my heel is locked in the proper position.  I've still got a huge chunk of my foot sticking out above the eyelets:

afhddKL.jpg

Comically failing the pencil test:

2fxSWXL.jpg

Now I'll admit that I've never had skates that fit right so maybe I'm missing something, but that can't be right, can it?

 

Just re looked at these pics and it looks like your eyelets may have pulled the facing  bit? Not sure if just the lighting and angle but if you look at eyelets 5,6,7, you can see the imprint behind them...not sure if it's bc of how hard the guy tightened the laces or just the angle of the picture. 

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6 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Just re looked at these pics and it looks like your eyelets may have pulled the facing  bit? Not sure if just the lighting and angle but if you look at eyelets 5,6,7, you can see the imprint behind them...not sure if it's bc of how hard the guy tightened the laces or just the angle of the picture. 

Looks like somebody cranked on those laces wayyyy too hard when the boot was soft, and/or pulled up instead of out/away.

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The eyelets have definitely been pulled a little.  Not enough to damage their integrity, but enough to convince me to never let the LHS guy near them while they’re soft again and any rebakes will be done at home. 

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1 hour ago, no21kyle said:

The eyelets have definitely been pulled a little.  Not enough to damage their integrity, but enough to convince me to never let the LHS guy near them while they’re soft again and any rebakes will be done at home. 

Where did you go to btw. Might have been mentioned earlier but I don't remember. It amazes me how incompetent some dealers' staff members are.... Even the place I went to for my second pair of trues, they have sold the most in the west coast since the VH days.

The staff I got was on a weekend and the two main guys that do the scans werent there.  At least this guy I went to did the opposite of what happened to you. Only baked it for 4-5 mins Max, and the boots were barely warm. At least he laced them only at 60ish% and pulled out to the side. He probably didn't know trues had completely different moulding instructions than Bauer/CCM.  

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1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

Where did you go to btw. Might have been mentioned earlier but I don't remember. It amazes me how incompetent some dealers' staff members are.... Even the place I went to for my second pair of trues, they have sold the most in the west coast since the VH days.

The staff I got was on a weekend and the two main guys that do the scans werent there.  At least this guy I went to did the opposite of what happened to you. Only baked it for 4-5 mins Max, and the boots were barely warm. At least he laced them only at 60ish% and pulled out to the side. He probably didn't know trues had completely different moulding instructions than Bauer/CCM.  

I don't understand how TRUE specifically has instructional videos and in them they state to tighten the laces at a very nominal percent compared to normal, just to snug up the boot, and then rely on the shrink wrap to handle the forming of the boot. No one seems to either watch the videos or do what they have been told. I make ALL of our staff watch the videos and take the TRUE certifications and we NEVER have issues like this. 

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31 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I don't understand how TRUE specifically has instructional videos and in them they state to tighten the laces at a very nominal percent compared to normal, just to snug up the boot, and then rely on the shrink wrap to handle the forming of the boot. No one seems to either watch the videos or do what they have been told. I make ALL of our staff watch the videos and take the TRUE certifications and we NEVER have issues like this. 

My guess is nobody really watches the vids. I've gone two to places now (a private shop, and a large box store) and neither seemed to be truly familiar with the videos/process. At least my initial fitting used the shoehorn like instructed and only laced at about 60%, pulled outwards. However, I didn't get the shrink wrap or "Ace bandage" at all, even after complaining of a lack of heel lock.

 

The private shop knows about the shrink wrap though, because I'm going back this weekend to do it. I'm shocked they wouldn't just do it for me right away. I'll be curious to see if they lace my boots up 100% of leave the top 4 eyelets undone like in the video.

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1 hour ago, z1ggy said:

My guess is nobody really watches the vids. I've gone two to places now (a private shop, and a large box store) and neither seemed to be truly familiar with the videos/process. At least my initial fitting used the shoehorn like instructed and only laced at about 60%, pulled outwards. However, I didn't get the shrink wrap or "Ace bandage" at all, even after complaining of a lack of heel lock.

 

The private shop knows about the shrink wrap though, because I'm going back this weekend to do it. I'm shocked they wouldn't just do it for me right away. I'll be curious to see if they lace my boots up 100% of leave the top 4 eyelets undone like in the video.

It's fine to lace it all the way. Just safer not to in the event they lace it up too tight. 

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Final review now that I’ve had a chance to skate on them.

The scanning and ordering process was easily, took under 30 minutes. 

Production was insanely fast, just 9 days from order to pickup at Pure hockey in Anaheim.  

Disappointed in the pickup process.  I had watched the videos and read the instructions, and had to correct the LHS employee a few times, and a few things I let go.  I don’t want to blame some kid making $14/hour, that’s on true and pure hockey to make sure they have the right process in place if they’re going to sell high-end product.    As others noticed, there is a small amount of eyelet damage because he cranked them pretty hard while they were soft.  I left the store thinking they weren’t going to work out because the tongue was crushing my feet, forgetting that it was adjustable.

The skate itself?

My one complaint is that it isn’t very deep, when the reason I went custom was specifically because I need an exceptionally deep skate (without it being wide or long).  I wanted to be able to put my foot all the way into the skate without having the top of my foot stick out, and these might even be a little shallower than retail supremes.

But because of the moldability and adjustable tongue, the lack of depth isn’t causing any of the major issues I associate with shallow skates.   The tongue feels like it is comfortably cupping my feet, not crushing them.  I can’t get the laces through the eyelets once they’re on my feet, so I have to make sure they are all threaded then tighten them once my foot is in.  I found it pretty difficult to get a grip on the laces for tightening today, which can be easily solved with one of those little metal tightener doohickeys that I have laying around somewhere.   I went flopped today but I think next time I will try it tucked just to see if I like it better.

Length and width are absolutely perfect.  Once I made a few adjustments, I was able to get that “feels like a firm but comfortable sneaker” fit that other people talked about. 

But the ultimate test is how they feel on the ice.  The answer: great.

I had a little bit of calf pain because I’m a lazy, upright skater, especially when coasting around between drills on open ice.  These skates will fight you if you try to be upright, they want to force you into a hockey stance.   I had zero foot pain, which has never happened even in skates I was used to and had broken in.

My old skates were giant boats that were way too wide for me, but they were the only skates I could wear that didn’t crush my feet from above.  Left is old, right is new:

https://imgur.com/a/F0kENmj

This caused a lot of problems with edges and losing energy with each stride.

Skating on them for the first time, I could immediately feel my edges better and push them way harder.  I could carve my c-cuts better and stop more forcefully.

I was getting more energy transfer through my foot, which made me noticeably faster going end to end and coming out of crossovers.

I felt like I could glide forever without losing speed, but that’s probably the higher quality steel and the shallower cut that I read most people recommend for these skates (I went from 1/2 to 5/8).

I still might adjust some things to try to get an even better fit.  I wanna rebake them at home this weekend, with an ankle wrap, to see if i can’t get the heel lock from good to great.  But that’s just tweaking.

All in all, I got what I wanted out of the purchase and would recommend.

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6 hours ago, no21kyle said:

Final review now that I’ve had a chance to skate on them.

The scanning and ordering process was easily, took under 30 minutes. 

Production was insanely fast, just 9 days from order to pickup at Pure hockey in Anaheim.  

Disappointed in the pickup process.  I had watched the videos and read the instructions, and had to correct the LHS employee a few times, and a few things I let go.  I don’t want to blame some kid making $14/hour, that’s on true and pure hockey to make sure they have the right process in place if they’re going to sell high-end product.    As others noticed, there is a small amount of eyelet damage because he cranked them pretty hard while they were soft.  I left the store thinking they weren’t going to work out because the tongue was crushing my feet, forgetting that it was adjustable.

The skate itself?

My one complaint is that it isn’t very deep, when the reason I went custom was specifically because I need an exceptionally deep skate (without it being wide or long).  I wanted to be able to put my foot all the way into the skate without having the top of my foot stick out, and these might even be a little shallower than retail supremes.

But because of the moldability and adjustable tongue, the lack of depth isn’t causing any of the major issues I associate with shallow skates.   The tongue feels like it is comfortably cupping my feet, not crushing them.  I can’t get the laces through the eyelets once they’re on my feet, so I have to make sure they are all threaded then tighten them once my foot is in.  I found it pretty difficult to get a grip on the laces for tightening today, which can be easily solved with one of those little metal tightener doohickeys that I have laying around somewhere.   I went flopped today but I think next time I will try it tucked just to see if I like it better.

Length and width are absolutely perfect.  Once I made a few adjustments, I was able to get that “feels like a firm but comfortable sneaker” fit that other people talked about. 

But the ultimate test is how they feel on the ice.  The answer: great.

I had a little bit of calf pain because I’m a lazy, upright skater, especially when coasting around between drills on open ice.  These skates will fight you if you try to be upright, they want to force you into a hockey stance.   I had zero foot pain, which has never happened even in skates I was used to and had broken in.

My old skates were giant boats that were way too wide for me, but they were the only skates I could wear that didn’t crush my feet from above.  Left is old, right is new:

https://imgur.com/a/F0kENmj

This caused a lot of problems with edges and losing energy with each stride.

Skating on them for the first time, I could immediately feel my edges better and push them way harder.  I could carve my c-cuts better and stop more forcefully.

I was getting more energy transfer through my foot, which made me noticeably faster going end to end and coming out of crossovers.

I felt like I could glide forever without losing speed, but that’s probably the higher quality steel and the shallower cut that I read most people recommend for these skates (I went from 1/2 to 5/8).

I still might adjust some things to try to get an even better fit.  I wanna rebake them at home this weekend, with an ankle wrap, to see if i can’t get the heel lock from good to great.  But that’s just tweaking.

All in all, I got what I wanted out of the purchase and would recommend.

Over time you will get even more comfortable and will likely move from 5/8 to 3/4, that is the typical progression with more players that switch to TRUE. Once you have full control of your edges you don't need to rely on such an aggressive hollow and your legs, knees and thighs with thank you for this. 

One thing you noticed which usually catch most by surprise is how the boot FORCES you into a hockey position. If you fight it you will get tired quickly. However, give your body time to reset and your ergonomics to adjust. Your body mechanics need to reset and this will take a few weeks. 

Did you get the SHIFT holders? 

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7 hours ago, no21kyle said:

Final review now that I’ve had a chance to skate on them.

The scanning and ordering process was easily, took under 30 minutes. 

Production was insanely fast, just 9 days from order to pickup at Pure hockey in Anaheim.  

Disappointed in the pickup process.  I had watched the videos and read the instructions, and had to correct the LHS employee a few times, and a few things I let go.  I don’t want to blame some kid making $14/hour, that’s on true and pure hockey to make sure they have the right process in place if they’re going to sell high-end product.    As others noticed, there is a small amount of eyelet damage because he cranked them pretty hard while they were soft.  I left the store thinking they weren’t going to work out because the tongue was crushing my feet, forgetting that it was adjustable.

The skate itself?

My one complaint is that it isn’t very deep, when the reason I went custom was specifically because I need an exceptionally deep skate (without it being wide or long).  I wanted to be able to put my foot all the way into the skate without having the top of my foot stick out, and these might even be a little shallower than retail supremes.

But because of the moldability and adjustable tongue, the lack of depth isn’t causing any of the major issues I associate with shallow skates.   The tongue feels like it is comfortably cupping my feet, not crushing them.  I can’t get the laces through the eyelets once they’re on my feet, so I have to make sure they are all threaded then tighten them once my foot is in.  I found it pretty difficult to get a grip on the laces for tightening today, which can be easily solved with one of those little metal tightener doohickeys that I have laying around somewhere.   I went flopped today but I think next time I will try it tucked just to see if I like it better.

Length and width are absolutely perfect.  Once I made a few adjustments, I was able to get that “feels like a firm but comfortable sneaker” fit that other people talked about. 

But the ultimate test is how they feel on the ice.  The answer: great.

I had a little bit of calf pain because I’m a lazy, upright skater, especially when coasting around between drills on open ice.  These skates will fight you if you try to be upright, they want to force you into a hockey stance.   I had zero foot pain, which has never happened even in skates I was used to and had broken in.

My old skates were giant boats that were way too wide for me, but they were the only skates I could wear that didn’t crush my feet from above.  Left is old, right is new:

https://imgur.com/a/F0kENmj

This caused a lot of problems with edges and losing energy with each stride.

Skating on them for the first time, I could immediately feel my edges better and push them way harder.  I could carve my c-cuts better and stop more forcefully.

I was getting more energy transfer through my foot, which made me noticeably faster going end to end and coming out of crossovers.

I felt like I could glide forever without losing speed, but that’s probably the higher quality steel and the shallower cut that I read most people recommend for these skates (I went from 1/2 to 5/8).

I still might adjust some things to try to get an even better fit.  I wanna rebake them at home this weekend, with an ankle wrap, to see if i can’t get the heel lock from good to great.  But that’s just tweaking.

All in all, I got what I wanted out of the purchase and would recommend.

Are you using the standard tongue or the new pro tongue?  I would imagine that if you aren't using the new pro tongue, you could switch to those to get better control on your volume issues.  BTW, I too feel like the tongue on Trues compress the top of your foot more than my old retail skates did, but it doesn't bother me at all.  I do tie my laces relatively loose though.

Edited by shoot_the_goalie

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29 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Are you using the standard tongue or the new pro tongue?  I would imagine that if you aren't using the new pro tongue, you could switch to those to get better control on your volume issues.  BTW, I too feel like the tongue on Trues compress the top of your foot more than my old retail skates did, but it doesn't bother me at all.  I do tie my laces relatively loose though.

From the pics it looks like the new tongue. 

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