jimmy

Law, here's a suggstion. If Dukes is where you want to go, why not purchase a skate holder and "lend" it to Dukes providing it's set up and aligned and ready for your skates. You'll then let them use the holder for other goalies and they sharpen your skates for free in return. Once they have a seperate holder, no reason why they can't sharpen you with FBV, no extra work or time needed at that point. The money you save from having to drive around will pay for the holder in no time.

Wow, you did everything you could to try to get that done. For $20 tip, I'd pick them up at your house and deliver them! Anyway, it does take 2x longer to do most goalie skates as it is, due to the better quality stainless. For FBV with one head, you have to change holder from a 2.9 to a 4.0, calibrate, sharpen, then go back to a 2.9, and calibrate. Not a fast process and way more labor than a regular FBV. This is why I got 2 more holders. In the beginning when I had one machine, I got backed up 12-15 pairs while doing a goalie or a Rocket Runner. I tried to have them leave them and come back but a lot couldn't do that. But, since I'm primarily a custom sharpening and radius shop, I just couldn't function right with 1 machine and 1 holder. I know Dukes is huge, but maybe they don't focus on sharpening, rather equipment.

First, the speed advantage for goalies IS negligable. But, some goalies may still want the FBV, that's their choice. But, I sympathize with the shop owner. It's not just a simple few click adjustment. With a line of people, stopping to do a FBV on a goalie really slows things down. So I can see why they wouldn't want to offer it for the very few goalies who may want to use it. I have 4 FBV heads and two holders set and aligned and ready to go for 3.2mm and 4.0mm blades, so for me it's not a problem. But the small shop who doesn't have the machines and holders, it's not cost effective for them to offer it.

Soft ice doesnt effect FBV as much as a hollow cut. The flat prevents the edges from sinking into the ice as much as hollows do.

Now you should try the "real" FBV. ;-)

Easy to figue out, Step XL steel is for skates that have Ls2.1 power steel. Same extra length. Howver, any skate any model that has LS2 holder can take Step regular or XL steel, totally interchangeable. X60's have regular lenngth LS2 steel so if you want to stay the same just get the regular Steps.

Do your blades have a ot of scratches on the sides? If so, this is what you could be feeling. Just skate on them and le tus know how they feel.

Did you hone them after sharpening?

Even though the steel is the same, most who use Velocity report that it holds edges longer than their regular STEPs. With the polished finish, the edges are stronger, they do not nick as easy as well. I love sharpening the velos, little to no honing required, the edge is just so much cleaner.

Step's big advantage is the taller height, which gives better turning and longer sharpening life. These have to be factored in. Yes the quality of the STEP regular stainless is better than stock steel, and the Velocity is even better than that, so either is a good choice. BlackEdge is really just hitting the market, and from what I've seen, it will be very good for edge retention. I radiused 3 sets yesterday and am very impressed with the quality. As for Nitinol, it is certainly the best, doesn't need the extra height for sharpening life as these will likely last 10 years or more. Plus unbreakable compared to all the others, + lighter, better glide. So from a cost/benefit perspective, Nitinol wins hands down, but it has it's issues. Virtually impossible to grind out a deep nick or lost edge, it can take hours and dressing after every 2 passes. I just re-sharpened a pair for a ex NHLr playing in Europe that were trashed, and it wasn't a nice experience. And I have the correct wheel to sharpen them. I fear if one uses a regular wheel, and they have to do a lot of passes, the chipping problem will be a big issue. If I had to recommend steel, it would be STEP Velocity and BlackEdges as my top choices.

He asked for the sharpest, that is the sharpest. I have several customers using it, and they like it and have no problems. They were on 100/75 prior and wanted more bite. Same scenario as OP. Shayno, yes, if they have the 100/1 spinner, that's what you'll ask for.

Try the 100/1

Perhaps you have an older holder. Behind the rear hole has a hump in the plastic, the slot is not as deep. That hump is the reverse of the cut out of the Elite, so the elite fits perfect. We tried to fit a PII and STEP in one, they both wouldn't fit. Customer tried at home and I tried as well. No go. I haven't tried it on a different pair yet, will do that when I get some time.

Yes, it's the same steel for the Eastons, same quality. I do a lot of them for my overseas customers because I'm not allowed to ship Easton steel outside the U.S. So STEP is my only option. It does not however fit in the new EQ line of skates, only the Elites fit in those. Looks like they changed the Razor holder.

Not necessary on the velo's, does nothing.

Are you kidding? No, the criticisms, are not accurate. The FBV has been out for 3 yrs now. IMO if someone doesn't like the FBV it is because whomever did their FBV likely didn't do it correctly, or their machine wasn't calibrated correctly, or they tried only one FBV setting and didn't try another. I would say less than 1 of every 1000 who switched to FBV didn't like it. The FBV actually holds edges LONGER than traditional hollow sharpening. With hollows, the edges are always wearing no matter what the skater is doing. With FBV, the edges only wear when turning or stopping. Most of my customers say the FBV lasts as long or longer than regular sharpenings, virtually none say it lasts less. This is no BS. I can't explain why more than 70% of my customers have switched to FBV, other than they love it and would never go back. Some have switched to the Z channel, but less than a hand full have gone back to hollows. The stone can certainly be "dressed" clean by the spinner. Also a smooth finish can be achieved easily. I'd love to talk to the douchebag sharpener who says this can't be done. I'll invite him to my shop and do it right in front of his eyes, over and over again. Dumba$$. Of course, if you have a bad sharpener to begin with, (which is very common), you will not get a good FBV. Recently one of my customers who couldn't make it to me, and he had his skates done by a shop in Wilmington, MA, they now do FBV. He showed up at my shop today, looking for me to fix it. I suspect, all the negatives associated with FBV's can be blamed on just poor sharpeners.

100/1 is very popular for goalies.

I have a name for that.... "Another $6.00" :-) Believe it or not, a lot of sharpenings are needed just because of that reason. Just look around your rink/bench next time you are at the rink, there are skate marks everywhere, on every stanchion, on every wall, under benches, on every screw that holds the thresholds down, literally everywhere.

The reason I do it is because I ship many runners all over the world and I can't be guessing if the sharpening is done correctly. Customers pay a lot for shipping and are relying on perfect sharpening when they receive their blades. Unlike a hollow sharpening, where the sharpener has a simple measuring tool to inspect the finished product, there is no such thing for the FBV. By ensuring in advance that the spinners are good and the holder/machine are aligned and operating properly, inspecting with the test runners each morning (and sometimes during the day if I think a spinner may be at the end of it's life) well this really reduces the chance that an FBV will come out bad. If a local customer gets a bad FVB, he can just come back and get it redone. With mail order it's a whole different issue.

This topic has really degraded. We don't need engineers, we don't need to do testing. There are so many variables, it cannot be debated accurately on a board. FWIW, I personally have done over 45,000 FBV sharpenings in the last 3 years. Is that a good sample size? Please, tell me if that is not enough to verify accuracy of spinners? I calibrate my machines daily, making a mold from a sharpened blade, (each spinner tested) then view the mold with a microscope to see actual results. I use and go through a LOT of spinners each month and have not seen ANY variation in results. So much for this "major Problem" with spinners. Next topic please.

You are exactly correct on both counts. If I've been skating on say 1/2" and I switch to 100/50 and like it a lot more, well, discussion over. SO many have done this switch that any questions about the FBV's function and popularity can now be laughed off. And I can guaranty that on ANY skate sharpening machine, when one factors in the slop in motor bearings, the drive shaft, the diamond arm, the diamond, the wheel, etc, the dressing of a regular hollow is not going to be exactly perfect each time either. It will be close that no one can tell the difference when skating, but still out of tolerances. We are not talking space program here, a tiny bit off tolerance is not going to be noticed by a skater. A sharpening by someone who doesn't know how to adjust for blade thickness, well that's a whole different story. Still, considering that most runners are now so close to 2.9mm, it's not very hard to adjust holder for a 1mm difference. Unlike the old days when CCM runners were 2.6mm and Tukk+'s 3.1mm and a lot of adjustment was required.

Hope you're Ok, my wife still isn't the same after our accident. Never should have Settled so early. Sure send them up. kklinder is right. I you are an accomplished skater, the ZC will work very well for you, and performance can surpass other skate sharpening methods. The more you lean in turns, the better it grabs, and when out of the turn, lots of speed. Not for everyone, but certainly can be a better option for some. We are really still in infancy with this one, just too many settings possible. So, if you don't hit it right first time, making adjustments may require more experimenting than say a FBV, sometimes it's just making the channel wider, but other times a bit more complicated.

The difference is ZC is not sharpened like a regular skate, the channel width/depth/hollow is adjustable. Was that how the Perfecta was and why did the Perfecta not catch on? Got any pics of your blade, would really like to see it. Feedback from ZC users has been that the speed is incredible, so I don't think "drag" from ice build up is an issue. Yes, the FBV is great technology, so isn't the ZC. Like the FBV, don't knock it till you try it. Many were sceptical about the FBV as well. Some people like the FBV better, some like hollows better, some like the ZC better. It's just another option.

Well, what setting are they on now?