jimmy

I thought it was the opposite, all things being equal (weight..ice conditions.. skating style.. etc) a deeper hollow would lose its edge quicker... I'm probably wrong though.. You are correct. The deeper hollows have thinner edges that wear quicker, they are just more fragile, so the sharpening does not last as long.

Thanks for posting what I was also thinking. I guess stores that don't like people flexing sticks should lock up all of their sticks behind glass - that will stop those pesky customers! What would you expect customers to do when they're about to lay out $150 on an OPS, or any other stick for that matter? When you're going to lay down that kind of dough there are only so many ways you can touch and interact with a stick as you're thinking about the feel of it in your hands, the weight, etc. Flexing doesn't sound all that stupid to me. I bought a new stick a couple weeks ago and flexed all kinds of sticks before I knew which one felt good for me. I'm sure my LHS wasn't too sad when I walked out with a $100 stick and I just came in to get some numbers ironed onto my jersey. Now if a guy was taking practice windups or shooting rolls of tape around the store - ok, that's stupid! B) (Unless you have a demo stick area where they're supposed to shoot things, then that's ok too.) Maybe the LHS workers can tell us how they'd try out a new stick they've never touched before to decide if they'd buy it. Id be annoyed if you bought a stick or not. Flexing the sticks proves nothing. It just makes you look like a retard. And also puts unneccasary stress on ALL THE OTHER sticks that you DIDNT buy. And wow, you bought a $100 stick. Way to go. Thats a way to make a store's day! If someone who works at an LHS ever wonders why people prefer to shop online, or go to competing stores - this is the exact attitude that drives it. If you treat my $100 likes it no biggie, then I won't bother to shop at your store and I'll go somewhere where they're happy to sell me anything because they know it leads to a happy customer and more future purchases. I know exactly the type that you sound like. you're busy talking on the phone or staring at the computer, I ask for some help or something, you're pissed off because I broke some 'golden rule' like don't flex the sticks, so you slowly get your lazy ass off a chair and probably let out a little sigh too, and then serve me with a frown. Next time I come in, I flex all the sticks I want until I decide, then walk out and then go buy online from someone who won't give me attitude cuz 'it's only $100'. This is where the phrase 'good help is so hard to find' comes from. It's exactly this attitude of customers that makes stores want to charge "flexing" fees. What, you can't flex that litttle JPEG on your dot com site, ... well we'll let you flex our sticks for a fee. The casual idiot doesn't realize that flexing sticks damages them, especially the way they are flexed in the store, a move or position NEVER done in an actual hockey game. So, when idiot A flexes a stick beyond normal use in the store, it is unsuspecting customer B who buys it who ends up breaking the stick on the first shot. Flexing in the store proves nothing, a 85 flex is a 85 flex regardless of what stick it is on. Any other "feel" you may think you have is your imagination, nothing else. 85 lbs of force causes a stick to flex period, regardless of stick, wood or otherwise. What really gets me is the dads who flex little JR's 50 lb stick in the store. After finding several sticks broken on the rack, I can only assume some idiot overflexed them. These same idiots don't understand that these sticks are not under warranty for the store owner, and the store owner has to eat that loss. End result.... higher stick prices. P.S. I now have full time video surveillance in my stick room.

Flexing a stick proves nothing, I just laugh at them. 85 flex is 85 flex regardless of the stick. About the only thing I get ad at is when they shoplift. Someone scamed a Oakly visor the other day. And you wonder why are prices are higher than internet sites.

I didn't realize this was a for sale site. If that's the case, I have everything for sale, just call. ;)

If you think the XXX goal skate is better, wait till you see the new Vector and RBK goal skates. Replaceable stainless steel, lightened and lowered holder. Sweet. I just ordered a 9k pump for me. IMO, the replaceable steel is a breakthru that will be accepted by goalies like never before. The stainless is only icing on the cake. If it's flash you want, go for the bauer. If it's fit and function (and durability), the RBK is the way to go.

Yes, exactly.

Find a LHS that knows what they are doing, not just one that does 9' on everyone, or one that only offers two choices. What radius (rocker) you need is vastly different than what others need. Never go by a recommendation of another skater. Seek advice of a professional sharpener/radius technician who can talor the rocker to your ability, position, skating style, positional play, skate size, height, as well as matching it to compliment a proper hollow. BTW, Rockering is an old term, for a service that was done freehand. It's now evolved into profiling and radiusing. Do a Google search for those terms and you will find some very helpful info.

All I'm saying is store workers should not be helping folks so they can bypass ther local LHS's. This has nothing to do with my store, but the "hockey world" as you say, in general. IIt's a macro thing, not micro. If there is no reason to go to the local LHS because you can get free fitting advice from MSH, then less folks will go to their LHS, they'll shop ebay. BTW, I don't believe I've ever mentioned the name of my store on this board.

No one is talking about making a profit on members.

Since many manufactures visit this site, I'd like them to give me the plans, materials and trade secrets on how they make their composite sticks. This is an "informative' site after all, isn't it? I'll wait for all this information to be posted, so I can start up my copycat factory and have some chinese guy make it for cheaper. It'll be a cold day in hell before I get it, I assure you. Why, you should be smart enough to figure it out. Once the word gets out that Chadd or JR will help fit you for skates so you can make the sweet ebay purchase or buy from Isellhockeyeeuipmenoutofmygarage.com, why on earth would anyone visit their LHS. Stop trying to be the "nice" guy. Either you have a business to run or you don't. Don't get so hung up on the holy-er than thou, we're just here to help the poor guy who doesn't have a LHS that knows what they are doing. Yo're being taken advantage of and you don't even realize it. "Bla , bla, bla, what size Kor do I fit into?" ....great ebay price on Kors. Suckers.

I agree this is an informative site. That's what's great about it. Information on a certain stick is way different than skate fitting services, something our LHS customers pay extra for. It's your site, if you want to give free services, that's up to you. Us LHS's have quite a lot of competition with the online stores, I just see it against our interests to help people so they can shop online. What's the next step, inviting all MSH'rs down to our store so we can fit them in person for that sweet ebay deal. Just being realistic.

I think it could be of value. I know Chadd and I have helped each othe rout when needed. If I got a stick he don't have that one of his customer's wants, or vice versa. Or an emergency piece of steel or repair piece. Also should unite in other regards. For example, why are we giving skate sizing info to the general public?. When we do this we are cutting our throats, our livelihood, helping folks bypass the LHS so they can buy off ebay and internet stores, to save a measly buck. Part of the reason we have to charge more is for our advice and fitting tme/info. Shouldn't be giving that away for free. What if a surfer is one of our local customers. I myself will not help with sizing info, that should be left to the LHS. Yes, some have crappy LHS's, but how do you know.

Any chance a forum for LHS workers only?

I can't agree when so many people have never had that problem before using Vectors. It's a very common problem with the top couple models, but not with many other brands. Lace bite is just not common with Vectors here. Never had any customer complain of lace bite on a Vector, any Vector, and I sell lots of them. Compared to a high end Bauer, the toungue is much better and does not break down as fast. I don't see what the problem is.

Got that beat, there's a rink near me that has an old figure skate machine, they do all skates on it, golalie, figure, hockey, without ever changing a setting or hieght of holder.

Before you have lessons, you must have proper equipment. Skate hollow and radius are the most important. It reminds me of a top NHL draft pick for the Canadians years ago, he was a goalie. Seems the equipment manager didn't want to cut the kids skates the way the kid liked them. He never made it in the NHL because of that. Can't remember his name. I'll have to do some searching unless someone has it on the top of their head.

The movie benefits the skaters, most don't have a clue that they even have choices. They just give the skates to the guy and he takes them and does what he wants. But I have to say, a lot of sharpeners are clueless as well. JR is always talking about some guy in his area who gives everyone the same radius.

- experience - ability - strength - height - position - style - type skate - hollow - personal preferences and more... Don't ask how each is evaluated, we have to keep some trade secrets! if we gave that info away for free how would M.E. suck all that money out of you for training and equipment. :)

You have to experiment with the different radius/pitches and see which works best for you, similar to how you experiment with stick curves. Your radius tech should be able to evaluate you to get a good starting point.

Don't you guys do radiusing at your store? You would think it's be popular in MI

Who knows, I may have said smoke and mirrors but never in the context of radiusing skates, a radius adjustment is not smoke and mirrors. It's a proven concept. How it is applied and who does it is a whole nuther story. As you said, it may be the "in thing" to do as far as parents are concerned to keep up with the Jones's, but I fault the radius tech for not properly explaining it to them when they do decide to get it done.

Actually. most of the parents im my area do know very well how to answer questions. Most of the dads have played hockey themselves, and the coaches give good feedback to the parents who are there six times a week watching their kids and others. I have no problems getting the info I need to know to get a good starting point. Sometimes adjustments and tweaks are needed, but since I don't charge extra for adjustments, it's not a big deal. The end result is the kids are skating better. I don't believe it was me that said max edge was smoke and mirrors. The fact that they say that all other methods and sharpeners are inferior because they don't use his so-called method is a bit pompus, as well as incorrect. But, you'll never see me say radiusing or profiling is not a good thing for everyone. THINK, what if everyone only had one choice of a stick curve (and it was a Thornton) What percentage of players would have perfect powerful shots and stickhandling with that curve, 2% perhaps. The other 98% would still be able to use it but not at optimum performance. A custom radius is nothing more that the same as finding that stick curve that works best for you.

http://www.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20021125-skatesharpen.asx

Contrary to the myth that youth skates do not need to be profiled or radiused, just the opposite is true. I recommend all youths learn to skate with a properly radius and pitched skate. No sense developing bad habits/body stance when you are young, it will haunt you later in life. Youths learn easy, bad habits as well. I can't even count the number of testimonials from parents who noticed drastic improvements after a PROPER radius/pitch was put on their child's skates. I won't even go into proper matching of left/right radius's. The thing is, until you've seen how a kid skates on non-profiled skates, you can't know what the proper profile will be. It would be foolish for parents to be profiling and reprofiling their 7 years olds skates trying to find the right combination. It's better to leave the skates unprofiled until tendencies can be identified. Two things. Most skate pairs the radius is not matched between left and right. So, even if you do not know the skater at all, the blades should be matched. Second, the skater can be properly evaluated through a series of questions, both from the parents and the skater themselves. A good radius technician should be able to "ballpark" a good starting point, and them just have to make minor adjustments after recieving feedback.

Contrary to the myth that youth skates do not need to be profiled or radiused, just the opposite is true. I recommend all youths learn to skate with a properly radius and pitched skate. No sense developing bad habits/body stance when you are young, it will haunt you later in life. Youths learn easy, bad habits as well. I can't even count the number of testimonials from parents who noticed drastic improvements after a PROPER radius/pitch was put on their child's skates. I won't even go into proper matching of left/right radius's.