flip12

FT2, 4 or both?

Warning: slight bend in the thread ahead... @pgeorgan Thanks for posting that. I was going to say, Ovechkin does have some serious linear crossover chops. He really showed them in his rookie season. Then he got a Backstrom on his summer holiday and got to take it a bit easier ever after. (Note: the next few links are all from the same video, but each instance is cued to a spot showing Ovy's linear crossovers). This one with commentary by Robbie Glantz is a little more recent, but it captures his puck carrying ability perfectly, and to make it through the neutral zone into the offensive zone without getting suffocated by defensive positioning usually requires fluid linear crossovers. Is it just me or does he also have a rather short and choppy stride, especially in comparison with McDavid and MacKinnon? The phrase "short stride" is ambiguous because it can refer to a player's normal skating stride not using much ice for the glide-and-push, or it can refer to players with longer strides that deliberately take shorter strides while utilizing a linear crossover attack because it's trickier to defend. Mogilny is the perfect example. He has the longest stride I've ever seen, but he was also a master of the linear crossover attack using abbreviated strides. I get what a linear crossover is. I'm just wondering, what is it people think they accomplish or should be used for? Because there's a lot of ambiguity in how they are discussed and some of the ideas I've come across just don't make sense. LCs are so revered they almost seem to usurp the forward stride as a necessary component in hockey ability, as though being able to skate well in a straight line isn't necessary. But I don't see how you can have good linear crossovers or execute them effectively if you don't have an above average forward stride to begin with.

Absolutely. But it's hard to say without knowing how he thinks. Maybe it was just a bad memory he wanted to erase, i.e. weak superstition. The OG JetSpeed graphic is just better, too. The only way to improve on it is to go back to the RBZ. That skate looked really sweet.

Last time he allowed them to mess with the graphic of his skates:

Any particular voices you recommend? (Seen some of the PEP stuff and it seems quite fluffy; promotional propaganda.) "Not short strides...others...have much longer traditional stride(s)." I still don't quite get what you're saying.

Do McDavid and MacKinnon have short strides? What muscle groups are they activating? Are they skating differently than Niedermayer or Gartner did? Curious if there are any videos or descriptive posts you can point to for illuminating this.

Interested customers might be wary of it as well. Participation is impossible if the process is opaque. It's not a very sympathetic view of others.

@mtn Do you still have the original footbeds from the 7700? Some pictures would be nice? How much lower cut are they than the JetSpeeds? Could you measure inside the boot to the top? Sorry for the questions, I'm just curious.

I found this comment from Dr. Bracko in the linked video: "Hi Nathan, thanks very much for your interest in my video. I understand you to say you that you think someone who has full extension of the hip and flexion-extension of the shoulders/arms is a faster skater. If you consider that we've know since 1975 that faster skaters have wider strides (hip abduction, not hip extension), they don't fully extend their knees during full speed skating, and that they have to abduct-adduct their shoulders/arms (Newton's 2nd law of physics). . . then it's easy to understand how fast players skate. Mike Bracko" I'm new to Bracko's work. What do people here think of this?

When I saw some P92 L5s a few years back, they were still higher than the P88. Definitely lower than the P92 L6, but not as low as I expected when considering it as a "5."

@mtn Can you post pictures of the inside of the boots, looking at both heels?

What’s the connection with Oates? McDavid keeps going back to his IginlaJrMod pattern, and with good reason. He looked like he was playing a league down against the Canadiens last night, weaving through them like drifting pylons.

Do you still have any of your son's previous shoulder pads that he may have grown out of? Or just a pair that you're not using anymore? You could remove the chest or back pieces and stitch them to his current pads. Failing that, check for used pairs in decent shape. With a little handiwork or service from a skate shop (or cobbler if that's not an option) you could have extra protection at little cost.

For those who want to keep their loops cut, what about adding some padding to the thumb pouch? It wouldn't help with the hyperextension risks, but it would minimize damage from impacts.

P92 is a heel/mid curve. It opens at the toe but the curve itself is at its slowest rate of change from the middle of the blade to the toe. Which Easton Sakic are you thinking of because I can’t recall any that resemble a P88?

I'm not entirely sure how the pricing compares, and I know price can be a sensitive issue, but for the amount of skating it sounds you do, you would be best to invest in a higher end boot. Definitely finding the right fit will help, whether it's Graf or another brand, but I would avoid the lower end Graf boots, as my experience is they have had issues with drastic quality drop off below the top of the line. As it sounds like your foot is a bit deeper than ideal for the PeakSpeed line, you might want to look elsewhere. The RibCor line has similar plush fit qualities and even though they're represented as CCM's low profile boot a lot of people experience them to be very deep. That might be worth a shot. True TF9s (about the same price as Graf 755s from a quick online search) might not be deep enough, but with their wrap and support, you might be able to fit into them comfortably. Their toe box is very anatomical, which sounds like it could be a start in relieving some of the comfort issues you've had in the past. I'm not 100% sure about the new True TF shells, but the fully custom ones were moldable on the arch as well as the quarters, so if your arch is an issue, you could potentially address that. The most important point here, I think, is how unique everyone's feet are. Just because I have a historical penchant for Graf and now True skates, doesn't mean they're necessarily right for you, or anyone at random for that matter. Grafs used to be go to skates for refs, but other companies have learned a lot of the tricks that put Graf ahead in the 90's and Graf hasn't done the same quick enough in keeping up with market trends. As much as you use your skates and you probably make some income even on your time spent on the ice, I would definitely prioritize a boot that's the right fit and going to withstand the intense use you're subjecting them to. One way to get around being so far from many shops could be to get your feet scanned, so you have an idea of how they compare to what fits are offered at retail currently. Then maybe order several skates that best fit that description and return the ones that don't work. It's best to start fresh, with an open mind, as it sounds like you're still hunting for your go to skate make and model. Don't limit yourself by what you think you might need, as you might easily miss a much better solution if you're too keen on something before giving the search a proper go.

That weird twist wedge is exactly what can cause issues with that pattern. I agree with the relearning mechanics challenge too. Before posting that short story above I had a sentence or two about that in the section in the split personalities of the blade, but I tried to keep it down, as long as it already was.

Absolutely. I've already spilled the beans on that somewhat, and just realized that way of putting it after reading @Cavs019 description of his experiences with it as well as recalling what others have said about it, but I'll try to clarify it here. Background: The P28 is a subtle curve, without even going into the depths of its half dozen relatively common variations: E28 and BC28 are kinkier than Bauer, CCM, or Warrior's P28, while True's TC4 is more of a cousin to those curves than a sibling...then of course, there's MAX variants that were starting to come out before Covid19 and the popular Fisher Pro used by Kucherov, Karlsson, maybe even Ekman-Larsson, among many others. It was introduced with a nod at this subtlety, the infamous "dual-lie" marketing campaign, which ended up being more of a tease than a fair representation of the blade's character. What is all this subtlety then? Dual-lie is definitely one aspect, and potentially the trickiest. But it's also dual-curve. It's not a toe curve, but a heel curve with a toe curve added to it, and it can play like that: it can be a toe curve with the puck at the far end of the blade, or it can be a heel curve if you play as though the "dual" portion of the blade didn't exist. That is, you use it as a short blade with a heel curve and leave the toe curve and its sharp rocker out of the equation. Practically speaking... All this means is, for pick and fling wrist shots, push the puck out to the toe, grab and release in one direct motion. But note! Here the inverse of the key to using it as a heel curve is true: to use it as a toe curve, ignore the heel curve portion of the blade, or about 2/3 of the surface you've got for handling the puck. When it came time for me to try this out with the Leino the first time I used it, it felt really odd. I didn't know at all how to shoot at this point, mind you. But I had started seeing tips on how to do it on YouTube, so I figured I'd give it a go. It just felt strange to have the puck dangling out there at the end of this crazy long blade, ready to launch. It also looked strange, seeing all that blade I was bypassing, setting the puck up out as far as it could go. But then I launched my first shot and it went exactly where I had hoped it would. I wasn't used to my aim being any good, so I got giddy. But there's the rub-- It can be too good to be true, and in my experience, it was for a good while. I could shoot off the toe and skate with the puck, but I couldn't really manipulate the puck reliably to evade defenders in tight space or make consistent passes. After giving it some more time, I got the stick balanced better for my hands' feeling-expectations and discovered the gotcha about not releasing the puck from its natural heel-to-toe launch zone, but instead go heel-to-mid and suddenly I had the best of both worlds: the effortless saucers of a heel curve and the effortless lasers of a rockered toe curve. It took me an excess of 15-20 sessions with the stick to figure it out, but eventually it clicked. And then when I tried these techniques out on an E28, it was pretty much the same, just on a shorter blade at a slightly higher lie. Bananas split ~ Unfortunately, it doesn't work for everyone, and the point of all of this gets at why I think that is: it's hard managing a split personality, and the P28 is a split personality blade. The split personality requires awareness at all times, or you risk flubbing your maneuver entirely. The classic way to do this is to feel the puck on your stick without looking at it. If you can feel where it is on your stick, you can get it to the zone it needs to be in regardless of whether the heel approach or the toe approach is preferred in a given situation. You can also look at the puck, but it limits your effectiveness and it can get you into trouble really fast. If your feeling for the puck isn't as detailed as where it is currently and where it needs to be for the next action, you can easily get frustrated with the duality coming back to bite you. It's not all fun and games. Unless you like managing split personalities 🙂 Post mortem. Not that the P28 is dead. By all means, it looks as though it is here to stay for the next while, it's just not the latest and greatest anymore. When it came out, it seemed to create such a sensation, in part, I think because it seemed too pro to be readily available to mortals. That was my impression at least. Then the feedback and reviews came rolling in, and they were quite mixed. Where there had been so much marketing about a blade pattern(!) that promised to make you shoot like Ovechkin, people seemed to be somewhat caught off guard by the blade not always behaving. Easton hadn't told the whole story, and I keep coming across frustrated people who seem to have half of the information, in no small part due to the (at most) half of the story Easton told when they unleashed the E28. ! When was the last time that happened? It seemed totally crazy at the time, but that campaign looks like it set the stage for the marketing of the other blades that have come and gone (P46, P30) or are just having their moment as the IT blades right now (All MAX Everything, P90T+/-). That's all I have to say about that.

This hits it on the head, I think. Some people have this experience with the P28, and others find the heel curve of the P28 effective. In my opinion it comes down to whether the user can effectively use the blade as a two-in-one, with two different techniques or approaches depending on where the puck is on the blade. This is somewhat demanding of the user, as it requires solid feel and feedback or lots of looking at the blade, which doesn't really work. @Cavs019, I respect your views and often find myself in full agreement when I read your comments, however I must disagree with the description of the P28 being completely straight and closed relative to the P92 and P91, because to my observations it does curve right from the heel and the top of the blade doesn't curve in step with the bottom, creating considerable loft. It plays this way for me as well. I've encountered met many others who don't have the same experience using the blade though. I would suggest just trying out a buddy's P28 stick during warmup and on a shift or two. Try that a few sessions and see if it can work for you. Incidentally, I didn't discover the flutter effect personally using a P28, but a Leino Pro, which is essentially a Kovalev Pro x P28. It has both a very similar toe curve and that shaved heel portion where it's flatter like on the P28 or P91. I just went to a corner with 4-5 pucks and tried saucering them lightly, trying to get as much feedback from the puck on the stick as possible, and then it dawned on my why my saucer passes sucked: I was launching them just as the puck started to fall off the blade because of the aggressive toe rocker. I tried feeling for releasing a little sooner and suddenly I could lob tight slow saucers at head height. I would try that routine with a borrowed P28 to see if the technique settles in or not. I'd hold off on buying until doing that "test" a couple of times.

P28 is a modified P91, so yes, saucer passes are quite easy with one caveat: because the toe got shaved to make the pocket feel tighter on pick and fling wrist shots, you have to release before you reach that last 3rd of the blade. A lot of people naturally want to release the puck around that spot, where the "dual-lie" toe rocker starts which causes the puck to flutter. Otherwise, it's the same blade face and a similar heel curve on the P28. It just warps a bit into a mid curve until the toe curve starts due to the gravitational warping created by adding a toe curve to a P91.

If you really like a 9' profile, 11' might feel weird. I had Vapor 8s before my first Grafs (705s) and there's no way I would go back to the Vapor boots after going Graf, but it took me a while to get used to the 11' profile. One day when I did though, it was like I had found a cheat code for skating. It just worked with my mechanics in a way I didn't know possible. A lot of people (probably used to 9' and 10') think it feels flat and sunk in, like you're skating on rails. I feel like the 11' is still nicely curved. I feel more in control on turns and accelerations, where a 9' or 10' feels like I'm a duck paddling my way through water and I feel like an penguin on an 11'. You'll probably love it or hate it. Because more blade is in contact with the ice, you'll dig in more if you stay with the same hollow as you use on a 9'.

Edit: pointless post, found my answer 2 seconds later.

Maybe they’ll make them look like they’re still there in the production version:

Yes. And not even the "unibody" sole as on the UltraSonic.

I came across this just now while I was browsing Scott Van Horne's patents, and it articulates my thoughts better than I would have: "The sport of in-line and ice speed skating, hockey, figure skating, cross-country skiing, and the like are all very competitive sports, at the elite level. For optimal performance these sports demand comfort and stability. A lack of comfort can result in decreased training time. A lack of stability can result in: a loss of power through excessive joint bending and increased fatigue through excessive lower leg muscle stimulation, these factors will cause a decrease in performance." From: High performance custom moldable footwear I like the idea of laces free skating for training but I am skeptical about its broad applicability for competition.