"Evil manufacturers"?

[Hipster 5]

bnh did change the color of skates. gone are the classic look of all black with one or two logos. now you have colors that don't (imo) don't belong on skates(white) and logos all over the place. credit to graf for keeping the old school look.

Ever see a Bauer 8090? There isn't a more classic styled skate out there.

I agree, The Bauer Supreme line does look classic and "no-non-sense" If Bauer fit my feet, I wouldn't hesitate to by something good from the Supreme Line. I have not worn Bauers in 30 yrs myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I've seen plenty of guys who skate hard and often with old pairs of Supremes, so the durability is apparently good.

I like the old school style of equipment too. Give me quality over colors any day. I cut the white plastic "Heel Wedges" off of my ProTacks, just because it looked gaudy to me. Now they look like anonymous, generic hockey skates....and very light ones. When I take them to get sharpened, the kids there either love em or hate em.

But the trend in the amateur market is definitely moving towards flashiness on exterior equipment. Suprisingly, the pros still are pretty old school for the most part.

You don't see many T'Blades or gloves that look like Star Wars stormtroopers on the pros.

But my 10 yr.old son? He'd loooove to have a pair of Vector Pro's with T'blades, RBK 8k helmet and shiny Eagle gloves.... Like that'll ever happen, LOL.

I had to wait 35 years to become an equipment whore....he'll have to wait till its his own money too.

[Chadd 916]

I guess my biggest gripe is that I would like to see a little less spend on marketing and a little more on quality control. I see kids come in all the time with skates that should be blems or seconds, if not totally rejected by any decent QC person.

Chadd, how do I post a pic? You'd like this one I took yesterday of a XXX. Classic example of poor QC

Either upload it on imageshack or email it to me and I'll put it up for you.

csullivan@modsquadhockey.com

[Jim A 4]

Products have always changed year to year, even when I was a kid...only then you'd have to wait for the Great Skate catalog to see what was up..even if there was still a Bauer 4000 skate..there'd be some changes..and well closeouts at the levels they are at today were rare..but mostly because you were only making $10-20 on a pair of skates instead of a traditional hockey margin 35% today..you can "blame" Nike for that..but if you're a retailer..they helped add to the bottom line regardless of the brand you were carrying..

that being said I've always been a Bauer..and then Nike guy..the only things I don't have at the moment that are BNH products are my shoulders + shins + stick..

All of the big companies nowadays, Nike, Reebok types have come from scratch..so I don't see what the issue is with them..

Nike was born out of Bowerman's waffle iron and frustration with Asics not being able to make stuff for his runners to his specs and the guy who still leads Reebok bought the US rights in 1980 for $65k before buying them out in the UK 4 years later..if being an ultimate success makes you "evil" I doubt these guys care..

JR - I'm right with you..been in too many LHS's that had no idea on how to buy or that bought based on a $ or product spiff that a rep has given them on the side to sell the gear..sorry guys but the internet guys as you like to call them have to sell product during the year as well to get the $ that fuels the closeouts..and there are too many times where they don't get it first and have to wait long after it has gone out to the LHS before it arrives...Easton is a prime example of this, I've sold 50k of Easton in a weekend, but had to wait 3 months to get it, ...In fact I just went into a shop in my area that has locations elsewhere and the service was pretty poor..I went in with the intention of dropping some serious coin and left with my wallet completely intact..if I'm not going to get service at a LHS..I will buy online..its that simple..and service isn't about saying "hello" or asking one or two open ended questions..the person I was with has been misfit there before and it was happening again..just to make a sale on a $30 item..

[masterpirate13 0]

I'm not a huge fan of BNH due to the fact that I have had my pro shop for about 5 years now. The second year in business, when we tripled the size of our shop, I tried to get the BNH line and become an official dealer for them. Well they didn't want to look at me for even a second, so I went to easton, ccm, and graf for my players equipment. I went to vaughn and brian's for the majority of my goalie, with some pads from koho and ccm. And this year I have had the Rep whose region I belong to stop by my shop twice. So needless to say I had to bring in the major lines from BNH because all the kids want this stuff. But they were the most frustrating company to get started with, even when I was going to put in a booking order over 20K, which is a lot for a shop in Maine. oh well, I have them now and thats all that counts I guess.

A company that I'm starting to get rid of is Easton. They were great when I was in my first couple years of having my shop. But now their products are breaking left and right, and they are so difficult to deal with. I have been consistantly ordering over 20K in ops's every booking order. This year I cut my order with them in half, man they were mad at me. Needless to say its a couple weeks into August and I haven't seen my booking order that was supposed to arrive sometime in mid July. Thats ok though, I brought in around 20K worth of TPS ops. Those are the only two companies I have really had any trouble with whatsoever.

The two best companies for me would be Brian's, Vaughn, and Eagle. I think that was because my orders from there were pretty substantial and I sent them custom orders regularly throughout the year.

[modernice 0]

one thing I will say about BNH.  Their CEO Chris Zimmerman "seems" like an amazing guy!

I think it was at the Toronto Show where I first heard him speak about where the company is going. 

He spoke for 50 mins or so, and did not hesitate, or pause or stutter or fumble on any one word, thought or sentence the whole presenation through. It was an amazingly pefect delivery. ...hmmm. which leads me to question...maybe he is an alien of some far off "evil" empire.

The BNH Evil conspiracy continues...

Actually, there are very few CEO's who can't speak well. They are the face of the company and need to be able to instill confidence.

Yes, of course, the CEO should be the Top Salesman in the company- for sure. Yet, this guy was special. Honestly, I spent ten years in the "corporate" sector and listened to many great presentations by some powerful people. Zimmerman was flawless, verbally and presence-wise. It got the point where I was just analyzing his behaviour and delivery, looking for minute blunders. There were none, maybe 1 slight one. It's possible he had an "on" night, but I get the sense that he is a pretty focussed guy-perfectionist.

another key consideration with BNH is their "product development" from a corporate agenda perspective. Once they decide what key areas of growth they wish to attack, they leave very little flexibility for market-shifting. This is where the smaller, more nimble creator type people have a chance to get into the game. BNH won't have the adapatability to compete for at least a full season and a half. imho

cheers

gb

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Wasn't he a Nike guy?

[Jim A 4]

yes Zimmerman came from Nike Golf I believe..

[cobrAA 0]

kinda off topic, But i think Nike ,everybody know, was bad the first year, I was a CCM guys ,ccm for most thing skate etc... and for protective i was hespeler-itech guys.

I was boycotting Nike...but when they release the V series.i started to reallt get into the nike thing..i even try the v-12 but finally did go for the 1152...

But now just to let you know, i have a ccm helmet,nike neckgard,nike dri fit underwear,nike v-10 elbow, supreme6000 pants, sumpreme SMU shift pad...and nike flexlite...

I think Nike really made bauer better(i would never have bought bauer before nike join bauer)...they put some improvement nike had(dri-fit and MORE) To the bauer line...and they change a bit the fit of their item...

Bauer was old-school before nike join the boat...you would never had see tuuk light speed2 on a bauer skate...you would have see tuuk custom lol!!! I might be wrong...bauer would have respond to the light skate ''fashion'' but maybe not as fast as they did with Nike...

And everybody know... Nike are well-known to sell well thing...they always have the best good-looking stuff and everything!(not just hockey!)

Just my TWO CENTS!

[J-Shera 0]

you would never had see tuuk light speed2 on a bauer skate...you would have see tuuk custom lol!!!

Most people I know prefer the older tuuk to the lightspeed version. Nothing to laugh at really!

[cobrAA 0]

you would never had see tuuk light speed2 on a bauer skate...you would have see tuuk custom lol!!!

Most people I know prefer the older tuuk to the lightspeed version. Nothing to laugh at really!

yea i understand, but i was talking about the 'ligthest the better'' light speed are even lighter than t'blades

Older guys stick with what they are used too,but i think BNH focus more on kid,teen than older player,as CCM tack would focus on the older guys! My opinions...

[jimmy 194]

It does get frustrating when you have skate X on the wall from last year and skate Y is the same one yet aestetically spruced-up. The customer is going to go for that one even though skate X is the same and even cheaper because you have to get rid of them. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it is being done out of malicious intent though.

The maliciousness is keeping it secret, otherwise they would they tell us 6 months in advance that skate X is being discontinued so we could let inventory reduce and have a discount period that still allow us some profit. That would be the fair thing to do. Instead, new models revealed and within a day or two web sites selling them for less than our cost. Yup, that makes me want to keep a lot in stock.

[Chadd 916]

It does get frustrating when you have skate X on the wall from last year and skate Y is the same one yet aestetically spruced-up.  The customer is going to go for that one even though skate X is the same and even cheaper because you have to get rid of them.  I wouldn't go as far as saying that it is being done out of malicious intent though.

The maliciousness is keeping it secret, otherwise they would they tell us 6 months in advance that skate X is being discontinued so we could let inventory reduce and have a discount period that still allow us some profit. That would be the fair thing to do. Instead, new models revealed and within a day or two web sites selling them for less than our cost. Yup, that makes me want to keep a lot in stock.

excellent points

[modernice 0]

I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the evilness of some of their manufacturing practices.

Ok, I've heard all the arguments for and against offshore "slave" labor and I have my own opinion on this issue but watching a documentary where Phil Knight admitted to have never been to Asia or Indonesia where some of the notorious sweatshop Nike factories are. I mean, come on, he has his own Jet and a gazillion dollars, you would think that he could visit a factory or two, if ony for some PR. That seems evil to me...

opinions?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Everyone's making equipment offshore. Why just blame Bauer/Nike?

[NuggyBuggy 0]

I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the evilness of some of their manufacturing practices.

As a consumer, I have no problem with the factories that these companies run overseas. If people were being coerced to work there against their own will, that would be one thing. It is downright patronizing to suggest that people who choose to work somewhere out of their free will are being taken advantage of. Yes, they make less, far less, than workers in North America, but their choice to do so speaks volumes about their alternatives. To complain that workers are making, say for argument's sake, a dollar a day, removes the all-important context that they would be making less than that if they weren't working there. These people work in these factories because they have no better options. Take away these manufacturing plants and you leave them with the options they chose not to take in the first place.

[DarkStar50 679]

I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the evilness of some of their manufacturing practices.

Ok, I've heard all the arguments for and against offshore "slave" labor and I have my own opinion on this issue but watching a documentary where Phil Knight admitted to have never been to Asia or Indonesia where some of the notorious sweatshop Nike factories are. I mean, come on, he has his own Jet and a gazillion dollars, you would think that he could visit a factory or two, if ony for some PR. That seems evil to me...

opinions?

Where is Puckskin manufactured? How much do the employees make per hour? Do they work a 40 hour weeks + time and a half for overtime? Do the employees have a medical program available? Is there a daycare option for working moms?

Is there a company pension program available? Do they get paid holidays?

Is Puckskin "evil", too?

As they say in court, "Your honor, his question has "opened the door" to ask these further questions."

[2-Keys 1]

you could say just about every company is evil if just making their equiptment offshores is what makes them evil. everyones having thier stuff made overseas.

[DarkStar50 679]

you could say just about every company is evil if just making their equiptment offshores is what makes them evil. everyones having thier stuff made overseas.

And the fact that they do manufacture product overseas is not the "evil" that I started this thread looking for. I find it ironic that in one thread everyone is going ga-ga over the BNH product at Team Canada and Team USA training camp and in this thread others want to trash the brand of the product you want. I am separating dealers (Chadd, JR, Jimmy, others) from the players (the guys salivating for BNH Team Canada/Team USA product). Each group has their opinions and I respect everyone's ideas.

[modernice 0]

Everyone's making equipment offshore. Why just blame Bauer/Nike?

I only mention BNH because this topic is titled "Evil Nike/Bauer"

I understand that global manufacturing practices of some of the Big Corporations is just a basic reality of the economics of globalization. Shift low skilled labor to countries that specialize in low skilled labor and maintain the high skilled labor sector in the wealthier nations.

I get that, and understand how it works and I have no major concerns with that premise. I'm just trying to get a feel for where the board is at on this subject

BTW:

my posts about BNH's evilness are mostly in jest. just having some fun with the discussion, that's all.

cheers,

gb

[modernice 0]

I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the evilness of some of their manufacturing practices.

 

Ok, I've heard all the arguments for and against offshore "slave" labor  and I have my own opinion on this issue but watching a documentary where Phil Knight admitted to have never been to Asia or Indonesia where some of the notorious sweatshop Nike factories are.  I mean, come on, he has his own Jet and a gazillion dollars, you would think that he could visit a factory or two, if ony for some PR.  That seems evil to me...

opinions?

Where is Puckskin manufactured? Vancouver

How much do the employees make per hour? more than minimum wage Do they work a 40 hour weeks + time and a half for overtime? Yes. Do the employees have a medical program available? Yes. Is there a daycare option for working moms? Not sure

Is there a company pension program available? Yes. Do they get paid holidays? Yes.

Is Puckskin "evil", too? No, I don't think so.

As they say in court, "Your honor, his question has "opened the door" to ask these further questions."

and we are happy to answer them... :)

Actually, our Cut/Sew/Trim factory is an amazing place to work. Lots of Natural light, well vented, clean, and organized.

It's the same factory that Lululemon uses and there are lots of happy smiling people working there...

Vancouver is actually a smallish hotbed of performance fabric design and manufacturing. It's one of the reasons i'm so passionate about our fabrics and quality. link to article that talks about this:

I realize that it's not a big deal to some, but to others it means alot. For example, our Swiss Clients prefer to have a Hockey product that is Made in Canada.

[DarkStar50 679]

Everyone's making equipment offshore.  Why just blame Bauer/Nike?

I only mention BNH because this topic is titled "Evil Nike/Bauer"

I understand that global manufacturing practices of some of the Big Corporations is just a basic reality of the economics of globalization. Shift low skilled labor to countries that specialize in low skilled labor and maintain the high skilled labor sector in the wealthier nations.

I get that, and understand how it works and I have no major concerns with that premise. I'm just trying to get a feel for where the board is at on this subject

BTW:

my posts about BNH's evilness are mostly in jest. just having some fun with the discussion, that's all.

cheers,

gb

In the opening post I mentioned "Terrible Hockey Company" and "Awful Easton" as well so everyone knew they could vent on all vendors.

We all know that if hockey protective were made in North America none of us could afford it, just the folks in JR's store! So the shift to Asia for production was only a matter of time. I think equipment has been produced there since late 80's, anyway. this is nothing new.

gb,

Sometimes you kid and sometimes you sound so serious!!

Keep up the friendly and thought provoking discussion!

Peter

[DarkStar50 679]

I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the evilness of some of their manufacturing practices.

 

Ok, I've heard all the arguments for and against offshore "slave" labor  and I have my own opinion on this issue but watching a documentary where Phil Knight admitted to have never been to Asia or Indonesia where some of the notorious sweatshop Nike factories are.  I mean, come on, he has his own Jet and a gazillion dollars, you would think that he could visit a factory or two, if ony for some PR.  That seems evil to me...

opinions?

Where is Puckskin manufactured? Vancouver

How much do the employees make per hour? more than minimum wage Do they work a 40 hour weeks + time and a half for overtime? Yes. Do the employees have a medical program available? Yes. Is there a daycare option for working moms? Not sure

Is there a company pension program available? Yes. Do they get paid holidays? Yes.

Is Puckskin "evil", too? No, I don't think so.

As they say in court, "Your honor, his question has "opened the door" to ask these further questions."

and we are happy to answer them... :)

Actually, our Cut/Sew/Trim factory is an amazing place to work. Lots of Natural light, well vented, clean, and organized.

It's the same factory that Lululemon uses and there are lots of happy smiling people working there...

Vancouver is actually a smallish hotbed of performance fabric design and manufacturing. It's one of the reasons i'm so passionate about our fabrics and quality.

I realize that it's not a big deal to some, but to others it means alot. For example, our Swiss Clients prefer to have a Hockey product that is Made in Canada.

gb,

And the court thanks you for answering the questions! I didn't think Puckskin could be evil! They are led by such a great guy!!

If I decide to leave my pro shop, are their any openings at Puckskin?! I can be taught to sew. After all, I learned how to sharpen skates!!

Take it ez,

Peter

[jjtt99 0]

I've actually been to the Lululemon facility in East Vancouver. It is pretty cool. It is slightly ironic that everyone sitting behind a sewing machine is Asian though.

JJ

[modernice 0]

Everyone's making equipment offshore.  Why just blame Bauer/Nike?

I only mention BNH because this topic is titled "Evil Nike/Bauer"

I understand that global manufacturing practices of some of the Big Corporations is just a basic reality of the economics of globalization. Shift low skilled labor to countries that specialize in low skilled labor and maintain the high skilled labor sector in the wealthier nations.

I get that, and understand how it works and I have no major concerns with that premise. I'm just trying to get a feel for where the board is at on this subject

BTW:

my posts about BNH's evilness are mostly in jest. just having some fun with the discussion, that's all.

cheers,

gb

In the opening post I mentioned "Terrible Hockey Company" and "Awful Easton" as well so everyone knew they could vent on all vendors.

We all know that if hockey protective were made in North America none of us could afford it, just the folks in JR's store! So the shift to Asia for production was only a matter of time. I think equipment has been produced there since late 80's, anyway. this is nothing new.

gb,

Sometimes you kid and sometimes you sound so serious!!

Keep up the friendly and thought provoking discussion!

Peter

sorry for the serious tone, B) I'm mostly trying to be easy going and informative.

don't mean to be too deep or too serious, just pushing the boundaries in as friendly a way as possible.

I just wish i had the BNH :45 second marketing budget, WOW!

every dressing room where I play has life-size cutout stickers of Naslund and Iginla. and a couple weeks back, there was this MASSIVE barge cruising the shoreline of Vancouver, all day long on a hot and sunny day when the beaches and seawalls were packed. Now, if you know Vancouver, on a day like that, there is probably close to a million people dotting the beaches and parks that would see this barge....as it approached and got closer, I was in awe to see that it was a BNH sponsored ad floating past for all to gawk at...with the words bauernikehockey.ca, are you ready for your :45? and a Nazzy and Iggy graphic about 30ft x 60 ft.

unreal... :o

cheers,

gb

[cobrAA 0]

i had this cutout sticker in my arena too!!!