What's the big deal with skates becoming so light?

[icefish 0]

seems unlikely companies will do that. they aim to sell, and I'm willing to bet that most of the r&d now goes into making it look better and weigh less which is what will make someone initially want it.

[jimmy 194]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

If a company is making a claim based on a test result, regardless of company, I think the test should be made public. Did RBK say they conducted a test on that Pro Armor? If so, lets see the results. I agree.

Bottom line is NBH claimed they tested the LS power steel and said it makes the skater go faster. We really would like to see the methodology and controls used to make this claim. Come on Darkstar, you are a NBH front liner, how about getting us these test results. Are they true or hype, we want to know. YOU keep on avoiding this question, by making counter arguments, but YOU have been avoiding it for months. Put your money where your mouth is. Truth??? Don't try to change the subject, just answer the question, or have one of your NBH guys answer it. Until then it is advertisiong hype.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

if you profile a skate to have more blade you go faster right?

Well if the blade has more steel touching the ice then whats the diffrence what "test" do you need to prove that?

Hockeymoms daughter actually had her profile reduced because there was to much on the ice as seen in the video! If she was to skate straight I am pretty sure she would be faster but couldnt manouver as well.........This I have to see a test BS is just that BS....use common sense....with ANYONES claims! Even mine if you dont like them but I usually have the proof so.......

sorry just tired

[DarkStar50 679]

Bottom line is NBH claimed they tested the LS power steel and said it makes the skater go faster.  We really would like to see the methodology and controls used to make this claim.  Come on Darkstar, you are a NBH front liner, how about getting us these test results.  Are they true or hype, we want to know. YOU keep on avoiding this question, by making counter arguments, but YOU have been avoiding it for months.  Put your money where your mouth is.  Truth??? Don't try to change the subject, just answer the question, or have one of your NBH guys answer it.  Until then it is advertisiong hype.

The world is full of hype and bullshit with marketing products and with government telling us lies(still waiting for proof of WMDs). You know what? Get over it! Nothing you or I will do will change it. Didn't you ever hear "Bullshit makes the world go around?" It does not matter to me if NBH claims LS2Power steel gives a faster ride or not. Its does not matter to me if RBK skates give 100% or 50% more protection. For some reason, you have this bug up your ass, as the anti-NBH guy on this forum, for test results from NBH because they made a statement that you want proof and truth for. You seem to think they owe you an explanation for everything. Newsflash, jimmy Olson! Nobody owes anybody anything in this world. And heaven help the fool who sits around waiting for it. You cannot even figure out when out I am busting your chops about the TRUTH that you take it as a challenge. This is no challenge for the truth. I, for one, am just tired of your whining about it for over 8 months. It is beyond time to move on. Look around the rest of your world and show us where we can find actual test results in real world marketplace situations. Hey, soldier, isn't there a very old Marine saying "Yours is not to reason why, yours is to do or die"? Seems like the Marines don't need test results to march on. Neither do I.

[hockeymom 2]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

If a company is making a claim based on a test result, regardless of company, I think the test should be made public. Did RBK say they conducted a test on that Pro Armor? If so, lets see the results. I agree.

Bottom line is NBH claimed they tested the LS power steel and said it makes the skater go faster. We really would like to see the methodology and controls used to make this claim. Come on Darkstar, you are a NBH front liner, how about getting us these test results. Are they true or hype, we want to know. YOU keep on avoiding this question, by making counter arguments, but YOU have been avoiding it for months. Put your money where your mouth is. Truth??? Don't try to change the subject, just answer the question, or have one of your NBH guys answer it. Until then it is advertisiong hype.

If a company says 50% more protective or whatever - that IS the test result. They didn't pull the number out of the air or a part of their anatomy!

And as for methodology, most consumers wouldn't be able to judge its' relative merits on validity and reliability because they simply don't know enough about the business of research or (in some cases) the science involved.

I know in our cynical times it is easier to imagine the worst, and manufacturers have to do the dance with consumer trust/mistrust. But NO one is doing subliminal advertising and research isn't faked. Subliminal ads don't work, and never have, and there is far too much at stake and too much scrutiny to fake research.

Oddly enough, one of the best "watch-dogs" in any industry is a competitor. In Canada, if anyone (consumer or competitor) registers a complaint about advertising and product claims the Council reviews it, including the support for the claim, and judges its' merits. This is why virtually no cases ever go to court in Canada. And all of these products are sold in Canada.

A better question would be "more protective than what?" as DS50 said above. Or, use your common sense and experience as OTG said (ah, cut right to the heart of it even when tired!).

We shouldn't be blindly accepting of claims - equally, it doesn't serve us to assume that it is all "just hype".

[BK 0]

The world is full of hype and bullshit with marketing products

Exactly.

Have you ever looked at some of the posts in the forum? Every time I see another "what size am I in X skate", I wonder why they are buying that skate. Obiously they aren't getting it from their LHS. If they don't have them at their LHS then chances are, they have never actually SEEN the skate in person.. which leaves the question.. What are they buying?.. I think they are buying hype more than a skate.

Prime example: NikeBauer One90.

How many people pre ordered these online? Only a handful of people owned these skates prerelease, so the people that ordered them had only the hype (and the dire hope that they ordered the right size) to go off of.

[JCYC5 0]

People living in a country such as mine has no choice but to ask for sizing help, order online and hope that the correct size is bought...

[BK 0]

People living in a country such as mine has no choice but to ask for sizing help, order online and hope that the correct size is bought...

Thats fine.. Its the people who live dead center in the middle of detroit and say they dont have a LHS because they have never seen skates in their Walmart.. thats who im talking about.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

if you profile a skate to have more blade you go faster right?

If you have two runners, one longer and one shorter, but with the same profile, wouldn't both runners have the same amount of steel in contact with the ice ? And if so, wouldn't there be no difference in performance ? I really am trying to understand how the longer steel on the LS2 could result in better performance.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

if you profile a skate to have more blade you go faster right?

If you have two runners, one longer and one shorter, but with the same profile, wouldn't both runners have the same amount of steel in contact with the ice ? And if so, wouldn't there be no difference in performance ? I really am trying to understand how the longer steel on the LS2 could result in better performance.

No. The longer blade will have more contact within the working radius, hence providing more straightaway speed and stability.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

No. The longer blade will have more contact within the working radius, hence providing more straightaway speed and stability.

OK, there must be something either very deep or very obvious that I am missing here, because I trust what you say but just do not understand. Maybe the answer lies in the term "working radius", is there a special meaning implied by the addition of the word "working" ?

My density being as it may, does this added straightaway speed and stability come at the price of maneuverability ?

[Chadd 916]

My density being as it may, does this added straightaway speed and stability come at the price of maneuverability ?

Yes

[Timber 0]

JR: Are you saying that longer steel has a longer run of working radius (distance between toe and heel radius takeoffs)?

When profiling a skate, how does the sharpener decide how long to make this working radius (can it be specified)? It would seem that you could easily create the LS2 Power effect by simply having any other runner profiled to a longer working radius.

[Karly14 21]

if you profile a skate to have more blade you go faster right?

If you have two runners, one longer and one shorter, but with the same profile, wouldn't both runners have the same amount of steel in contact with the ice ? And if so, wouldn't there be no difference in performance ? I really am trying to understand how the longer steel on the LS2 could result in better performance.

No. The longer blade will have more contact within the working radius, hence providing more straightaway speed and stability.

Hes right. Think speed skaters skates.

[Project_2501 0]

Nobody really carries a 20lb rifle, excluding sniper rifles. The biggest rifle in recent memory would be the M14 and that only weighs 10 lbs. To hit 20 lbs, we're talking M60's, M249's, etc...

Flak vests haven't weighed more than 10 lbs since Korea.

Rifle: Most of the specialty rifles are heavier, albeit not a ful 20lbs. However, a Barret M1 will weigh right up there.

Vest: A single heavy-protection ceramic plate can weigh 12lbs.

[kovalchuk71 212]

LOL, ok I think Jimmy was just trying to make a point

[Blackthidot 0]

So if Kovalev went to ONE90's this year you would not buy them?

[Miike 1]

So if Kovalev went to ONE90's this year you would not buy them?

I doubt he would because his name seems to be Kovalchuk not Kovalev.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

So if Kovalev went to ONE90's this year you would not buy them?

If the one90 would make Kovalev faster, maybe but it won't. I will never spend 800$ on skates which I'm not comfortable in.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

No.  The longer blade will have more contact within the working radius, hence providing more straightaway speed and stability.

OK, there must be something either very deep or very obvious that I am missing here, because I trust what you say but just do not understand. Maybe the answer lies in the term "working radius", is there a special meaning implied by the addition of the word "working" ?

My density being as it may, does this added straightaway speed and stability come at the price of maneuverability ?

There are three radii on a skate blade - the toe, heel and working radius. The working radius is between the heel and toe radius. So when you get a 9' radius, it is the shaping of the working radius to a 9' radius.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

JR: Are you saying that longer steel has a longer run of working radius (distance between toe and heel radius takeoffs)?

When profiling a skate, how does the sharpener decide how long to make this working radius (can it be specified)? It would seem that you could easily create the LS2 Power effect by simply having any other runner profiled to a longer working radius.

Timber - the longer the blade, the longer the working radius can be because there's simply more blade to work with. A 9' radius on a size 2 skate will feel much longer than a 9' radius on a size 12 skate.

Mission does that on their PITCH - the bigger the blade, the longer the radius.

This is why in that profiling thread, the guy mentioned his kid being on a 13" radius - simply too long for a small boot.

[mack 44]

If I ever backcheck this year I may go end-to-end, suckas. I am amped for these bastards to come in now.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Not me. STill pull up around the top of the faceoff dots :)

[Chadd 916]

Not me. STill pull up around the top of the faceoff dots :)

The dots outside the blue line maybe.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Yep, them be the ones.