Any updates on the sale of NBH?

[TBLfan 25]

Let me add that I'm not saying that without Nike there wouldn't be a hockey industry.

What I'm saying is that without companies like RBK and Nike bringing the money to the table the technology wouldnt have advanced as fast as it has. All these other companies had to raise the bar and come out with better products year after year to try to stay ahead of the game.

Without other companies pushing the envelope, why would NBH, THC, Easton, Mission, TPS and other companies bother pushing out better products every year?

[shooter27 116]

Again, not sure what RbK has done to innovate, but, it is a fact that people in the hockey industry view the Nike purchase of Bauer as a gross overpayment for a brand that wasn't making money. So, if they (Bauer) weren't making money back then, how were they going to innovate down the road?

Are you certain Canstar wasn't making money? I tried to look up the old Canadian stock exchange filings, but the online database only goes back to '97. Paying $395 mill for a company with $205 mill of revenue is a pretty healthy revenue multiple (roughly 2.0x). I would thing it's pretty rare that a public company losing money would receive that kind of multiple, although I admittedly do not work in the consumer goods space so I can't say for certain that that is the case.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

RBK has made a couple of reasonable advances in goalie gear, too. Their replaceable-blade cowlings (admittedly licensed from Belfour) and thinner goalie steel (top-notch material) are pretty significant contributions, and the design they put forward on behalf of Michel Lefebvre for the RBK pads was innovative as a flat-pad design but most significant in its elegance. Ask even goalies who hate the Premiers (I do), and they'll still admit that they're incredibly well-made and have perhaps the best-designed knee ever.

The Nike Flexlite is a pretty respectable skate, even if it looks a little silly; ditto the V-series. At least they brought a couple of unusual lasts to market, and the 'GameReady' fit was a decent attempt at something new.

Anyway, Bauer needs to be bought by someone who will be satisfied with steady profit rather than insane, cancerous growth, and who has the sense to put hockey people in place and let them run the show.

I'd pin that on Lefebvre/KOHO more than anything.

Not going to get too deep in this thread, but despite Nike overpaying for Canstar, Bauer wouldn't have had the ability to innovate without Nike.

Again, not sure what RbK has done to innovate, but, it is a fact that people in the hockey industry view the Nike purchase of Bauer as a gross overpayment for a brand that wasn't making money. So, if they (Bauer) weren't making money back then, how were they going to innovate down the road?

Are you certain Canstar wasn't making money? I tried to look up the old Canadian stock exchange filings, but the online database only goes back to '97. Paying $395 mill for a company with $205 mill of revenue is a pretty healthy revenue multiple (roughly 2.0x). I would thing it's pretty rare that a public company losing money would receive that kind of multiple, although I admittedly do not work in the consumer goods space so I can't say for certain that that is the case.

In the scheme of things back then, they were. Nike thought they would make a killing in the inline skate category, that's why they paid so much.

There's a ton more that can be said, but not the place or time...

[Aussie Joe 0]

Why? because I don't care if you like something or not? Just because you don't like Ferrari doesn't mean it's not more advanced than a model T. Opinion is opinion and fact is fact. You should learn to separate the two.

I dislike RBK sticks, so what? That doesn't mean that the company is complete crap and they have done nothing for the hockey industry.

Because you come accross as an arrogant prat, whose only interested in his own opinions. You don't have to agree, but its good manners and courtesy to not be such an ass when rebuting someone else.

This whole thread is based on opinions, yes some of you guys work in the industry and I respect the knowledge thats there, it doesn't mean you know 100% that NBH wouldn't have been able to advance hockey in a different way without Nike's assitance. Where you in the board meetings? Where you there step by step with the R&D boys? All this thread really is just a hypothetical of opinions and nothing more.

[shooter27 116]

No, I am not certain, however, it was said in those days that Nike paid a 50% premium above the level its shares were trading in prior months to the sale. Furthermore, I look at the current situation and think "if they aren't making much profit now, how much (or little) were they making then?

It is public knowledge that sales in the last fiscal year were $160 million with a reported 9-10% profit.

a = Is a 9-10% profit worth it?

b = Think of the momentum NBH has had the past few years; can they keep it up to, at the very least, maintain the 9-10% per year profit?

Paying a premium to the public stock price is standard practice. It's called a control premium, what you have to pay to take control of the company. The vast majority of public company buyout will have one, however the size does vary and 50% is high (Most deals go in the 15-25% range). I was referring to the multiple of revenue paid.

I do agree though, a 9-10% profit margin is tiny and if the revenue really has dropped from $205 to $160 then Nike is probably going to take a bath on the sale.

[Jim A 4]

yes, SRI and I were in all the board meetings, if you were from this continent you'd know that...

[TBLfan 25]

Why? because I don't care if you like something or not? Just because you don't like Ferrari doesn't mean it's not more advanced than a model T. Opinion is opinion and fact is fact. You should learn to separate the two.

I dislike RBK sticks, so what? That doesn't mean that the company is complete crap and they have done nothing for the hockey industry.

Because you come accross as an arrogant prat, whose only interested in his own opinions. You don't have to agree, but its good manners and courtesy to not be such an ass when rebuting someone else.

This whole thread is based on opinions, yes some of you guys work in the industry and I respect the knowledge thats there, it doesn't mean you know 100% that NBH wouldn't have been able to advance hockey in a different way without Nike's assitance. Where you in the board meetings? Where you there step by step with the R&D boys? All this thread really is just a hypothetical of opinions and nothing more.

Your/My opinions on the actual gear have nothing to do with the arguement. I don't like the "0" stick, so what? That doesn't mean it that a lot of R&D didn't go into it and that it isn't innovative. I don't see why you are trowing a hissy fit over me saying that I don't care that you don't like Nike's roller hockey equipment. I've mentioned NUMEROUS times that neither one of our opinions on the equipment being produced matter in this arguement.

A company with a LOT more money, as hard as it is to believe, more that likely will have more money to spend to research and develope new products. But of course, these companies coming into the buisness had no effect on anything other than a logo.

[shooter27 116]

They won't take a bath on the sale...they've already written off a significant portion of the cost associated with NBH.

Agreed, I was thinking more in terms of original dollars invested as opposed to what was still on the books. It most likely won't make much of a blip in terms of writing down what is left on the books.

[TBLfan 25]

Much of this, I feel, is that they (Mission, or for that matter, the "big boys" you refer to as NBH and CCM/RbK) outsource the manufacturing of their sticks and thus, they cannot make changes on a dime the way an Easton, Warrior, or TPS can via the ownership of their own factories. What they have to do is design a stick, tell their OEM what they want, test, make changes, test more, finally approve, and then place their order. The first sticks come over and IF they decide that they want to make changes, they either have to stop production (and take what they've made), or, they finish the first batch (what, maybe 10k pcs?), and then what? I think that is what has taken CCM/RbK, Mission, and NBH so long to get into this "ball game."

If what you are saying about Mission's stick is true (I wouldn't know because Zac911 hasn't sent me a sample (70 flex Sakic right is fine; j/k Zac911) and it is better than those of NBH and/or CCM/RbK, good for them! Too bad it took so long, but, I think you will see some success with the new "U" from CCM, and NBH is going to continue to ride the wave of the XXXX series, so, their (Mission) road might not be as easy as some might think.

When someone comes in with financial backing like that, other companies take notice and raise the bar. Look at Mission this year, they have the TI pro stick, a 60 warranty with performance superior than any composite of the era before the big boys arrived. There's reason behind the saying "When companies compete, you win."

Well you know the opinion on sticks is all subjective. I've heard plenty of people say the 9K has perfect balance, I've heard just as many or more say that the balance is awful.

I can see where you're coming from but it's not like these designers are hand making sticks. They're almost always deticated to designing and fixing problems, in say sticks. With larger companies you have the people with the know-how at your disposal that you can afford to bring in and design the product that will help you keep up or get that step up against other companies. Look at Justin, he left Mission to seek out other interest in taylor made/adidas, not Tom and Bill's golf clubs(that's a bad example because it's not another hockey company but I hope you can see what I mean).

Also, for some of these companies to be making these leaps and bounds with technology, you have to consider the beginning product. What was Bauer's first composite stick? Innovative made sticks for them for years. If you're starting with a 1979 Honda, it's tough to turn it into something that can compete with a Porsche. Now if you start with a Corvette, you don't have nearly as far to go to catch up.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

Actually Ballistik made their composite shafts before Inno did, but not the point... :)

[TBLfan 25]

haha, learn something new everyday... Well can you say when, if ever, bauer made a composite stick first? Maybe we're talking an Edsel instead of a Honda. ;)

[BigDipper 0]

Remember the BUSCH by ITech? I think larionov used them. Old school.

[Chadd 916]

I disagree. I don't feel Nike has done anything for the innovation of hockey equipment. Not even close.

Your personal bias is blinding you to the reality of the market. I don't use a single NBH product, but any impartial observer can see these things:

Nike changed protective. Innovations things like wicking liners and excellent mobility in their most protective pads. Many manufacturers make shoulder pads that share many of the advances NBH made.

They also changed the game in skates. Vapor skates own the market and have changed the way skates are designed. Weight is crucial to the financial success of a skate.

When you have changed the industry, you have innovated.

Remember the BUSCH by ITech? I think larionov used them. Old school.

So did Lang

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

So did Makarov.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

1993-94 = first Bauer composite shaft

haha, learn something new everyday... Well can you say when, if ever, bauer made a composite stick first? Maybe we're talking an Edsel instead of a Honda. ;)

DET 5500 baby!

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

10000...I can still picture Gilmour using it. My coach used to use them.

[DarkStar50 679]

It is discussions like these that make me glad only a few of us here have been inside NBH at St Jerome. Because until you have seen what we have seen, you really don't have a clue about what Nike has done for Bauer, for BauerNike Hockey, for NikeBauer Hockey, and finally, for hockey.

[jimmy 194]

Addidas buying Bauer would be the worst possible scenario I can imagine. Our experience with Rbk/CCM as far as shipping and order confirmation goes is horrendous. We primarily do business with NBH so we're holding our breath that whoever buys the company will leave the machinery in place.

You got to be kidding, or live in Mongolia. RBK/CCM order confirmation is excellent. When dealing with customer service I get a email response/confirmation almost immediately. They even tell me if something is out of stock, exactly when the warehouse will have it. Shipping is excellent as well, very few backorders and they are quick too. I can get almost anything is 7 days or less. I can't recall any problems this season with anything. If you are having problems, you have many avenues to fix things. Unless of course your account is in arrears, they don't like to ship stuff to people who are late paying their bills. One of the local chain hockey stores near me learned that lesson.

[skeeter14 0]

Bure and Trevor Linden. Loved the shaft, for its day, as well as the Titan 10000 and the KOHO VECTOR DRC.

DET 5500 baby!

KOHO VECTOR DRC!!!! I still have one, and also the KOHO Revolution DRC that came out the following year. I still use the Rev DRC, that thing is a tank :D

[DarkStar50 679]

If I order product from NBH on Monday using NikeBauerbiz, I have it by Thursday. If I order product from RBK on Monday, I won't get it until the middle of the following week, hopefully. How fast a vendor can fulfill orders to your door is crucial on which vendor gets repeat business.

As for who buys NBH, the shuffling in the hockey business has already begun among top sales management positions.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

i just hope it happens soon rather than later...

[VakarLajos 5]

Addidas buying Bauer would be the worst possible scenario I can imagine. Our experience with Rbk/CCM as far as shipping and order confirmation goes is horrendous. We primarily do business with NBH so we're holding our breath that whoever buys the company will leave the machinery in place.

You got to be kidding, or live in Mongolia. RBK/CCM order confirmation is excellent. When dealing with customer service I get a email response/confirmation almost immediately. They even tell me if something is out of stock, exactly when the warehouse will have it. Shipping is excellent as well, very few backorders and they are quick too. I can get almost anything is 7 days or less. I can't recall any problems this season with anything. If you are having problems, you have many avenues to fix things. Unless of course your account is in arrears, they don't like to ship stuff to people who are late paying their bills. One of the local chain hockey stores near me learned that lesson.

I live in NYC, not Mongolia. Maybe it's the rep. But we don't get things on time habitually. We ordered a shipment of practice jerseys from them. They sat in their warehouse for 3 weeks in stock. Once we got in touch with them and they were shipped, they sat at the border for a week. Why? Rbk could not tell us. We finally got them the day of the event we needed them for. Too bad we had to add numbers, a logo, and names to them.

Also, I talked to people about managing their store in Manhattan and it was a nightmare. They had their head up their ass and did not come through on simple things.

[jimmy 194]

Delivery time is certainly based on your location. I'm up north and get things quick, as I'm sure the shops in Colo get their stuff from Easton quicker than I do. When THC moved their warehouse to Canada, that complicated a few things, customs being one of them. Sometimes things sail through and I get item in 2 days, other times it can sit in customs and take a week. My "theory" is the Canadian customs hockey players pick through and lift what they want, what else would explain why the box is always open a a stick missing. :)

[houk 0]

This was posted this morning

`Hockey is now a secondary pro sport in the U.S.,' says Rennie

Jan 18, 2008 04:30 AM

Rick Westhead

Sports business columnist

Nike's venerable hockey division, Bauer, is poised to be sold off to a non-sports company for the first time in the company's long history.

Months after Nike announced it would sell Bauer, just three companies, each one a private-equity firm, remain in the bidding, several hockey sources said.

Nike is selling its hockey division at a difficult time. The number of registered amateur hockey players in the U.S. and Canada has either flat lined or slipped in recent years. Several industry sources say NikeBauer will probably sell for $150 million to $200 million.

In 1994, the year Nike bought Montreal's Canstar Sports, maker of the popular Bauer skates and other equipment, hockey was surging. Nike would wind up paying $395 million (U.S.) for Canstar, a 50 per cent premium above the level its shares were trading in prior months.

Nike has said its hockey unit posted sales of about $160 million a year ago, and several industry officials said they estimate the division generated a profit of $20 million.

A NikeBauer spokesperson declined to comment.

As the Bauer auction winds to a close, speculation has percolated in recent weeks that rival sports apparel and equipment maker adidas may follow suit and put hockey division CCM on the block.

ReebokCCM has re-designed CCM's logo, given the brand its own booth at a high-profile upcoming Las Vegas trade show, and signed hockey phenom John Tavares to an endorsement contract.

"adidas bought Reebok to enhance its pro-sports position in North America," said Jim Rennie, who for years published a trade letter about the hockey industry. "Sadly, hockey is now a secondary pro sport in the U.S., and adidas has other priorities. Hockey doesn't figure in its strategic vision. Hockey won't help it catch up to Nike – hence they likely exit."

Several industry sources said Reebok makes millions of dollars in profit thanks to its exclusive agreement with the NHL to make player jerseys. The jersey market alone, one executive said, is now worth in excess of $100 million.

[sdcopp 1]

interesting read, I was surfing through articles about it today, and found one where one position was that hockey membership numbers are waning at the sport interest level, thus the decline. The other position came from a shop owner saying that manufacturers, NBH in particular, are pricing themselves out of the market, with top end skates selling for $900 canadian. Skates or mortgage?

Would going back a step in materials to lessen cost, and pass along an ultimate lower cost to the consumer help revitalize interest though? Would a lower cost of entry to the sport generate enough push to get people skating and playing again?

I think it's interesting that we see a decline in sports outside of the big three, and probably in those as well, but a dramtic increase in online gaming, console gaming, obesity rates, interactive media online, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe it's a pure lack of interest because of these external factors? Whoever does pick up NBH is going to have to do something.