Proper equipment shopping ettiquite

[AWE46M3 0]

I used to work retail like some of you here, selling golf equipment, and that was a PITA. People always tried to get custom fitting session free or try things just so they could buy online - it's funny how blatantly obvious these people are though they think they are fooling you. I agree, if you ever have had the experience of working on commission (I was paid base + comm.) you learn real quick the different between buyers from the browsers.

That said, when I go into a golf shop or hockey shop or any shop, and if I do not have intent on buying from them or maybe not that day, I simply don't solicit help. I'll look at things on my own and if I have questions, I'll do my own outside research. Also, just because someone works at a place doesn't mean they necessarily have all the answers or even the right answers, so take the information you get with a grain of salt, because as you know, sometimes when you're being sold on something truth can become a bit foggy. I think bottom line, whether you're buying online or locally, do yourself a favor and do some research before you even bother to step foot into a store; being an educated consumer will save you and the salesperson time.

Anyway, to the OP, if you're buying locally, and the scenario you give is true then there is no issue with what you are doing. Be honest about it though.

[jimmy 194]

We have a price match policy so if they can show proof, and that store has that skate in stock, I'll match it.

However, I hate the whole "Can I get a discount because my kid plays hockey" thing. Hell, I like to eat, but McDs doesn't give me free Big Macs.

McD's recently had a buy one get one free, you should have taken advantage of that! :)

We have price match too, but what's so funny is the online store will have a high end skate model for $99, size 6 and 13EE as only sizes left, then customer wants you to give him your size 8 at the same price. Or HM has orange gloves for $29 and they want you to match price on your black ones. All I can do then is say, "Here's your sign".

If I was a customer, and was trying to get a discount, I'd simply ask if there is any way they could come close to the online pricing. This way you let them decide what discount they can give. But...never think you are going to get near online pricing with skates, unless of course you don't want sharpening, heat molding, fitting, and service after the sale. Those services are built into the retail store pricing, something online stores don't have to do.

[YouTuuk 0]

I always though the LHS should have a seperate "DIY" fitting room, and maybe for a fee of $10 - $20 you can enter that room, that room would contain one pair of all skates and sizes - not sure if this is impractical or not, I never worked at a LHS. Because I know there are all types of employees good and bad, but most of the time some high school kid who don't know much about fitting and he/she is just running in the backroom as a gopher getting me different skates to try on. Its not rocket science. I think they DIY room is at least a compromise idea - for LHS to earn money from people who want to fit and buy online. LHS might be surprised how much more business they get while "online" guy is in the store. Kind of like popular website, people go for the website attraction, but there is advertising all around, that they maybe click.

[Jason Harris 31]

How do you recommend one approach asking to price match or lower the price?

I always liked the approach I learned from my father-in-law. "Is there any way you can sharpen your pencil a little and maybe offer a better price?"

It's direct but it's not threatening.

Back to the original topic, there's nothing wrong with being upfront with a salesperson that you are interested in two products, although one is carried by a competitor. Jimmy's right that it's not different than shopping between Ford or Chevy. Before you leave the store, you are effectively telling the salesperson, "Tell me why I should come back and buy your product from you."

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

Let's make up a scenario - let's say he walks in my store - I sell NBH, used to sell Graf, but don't anymore. He tries on the NBHs first. I wouldn't have a problem hearing "Well, I really like these skates, but I want to make an informed decision and try on the Grafs." Since I have experience with Graf skates, I just may even offer him advice on which models to try. Or I can even take it totally out of the equation - maybe he has a wide toebox and I can say, "Well, Graf has a narrower toecap than the NBH skate. Then I can say, "Go ahead and try them, but keep that toebox in mind when you do."

Things like that go a long way into building a relationship. I'm taking the chance that I lose that battle, but may win the war - may come back in and buy everything else from me, because I was honest with him.

There's nothing wrong with using the process of elimination to buy skates.

[chippa13 1844]

Exactly. If you havent worked on pure commission you really don't understand. Most people think that their $200 should mean everything in the world to me, but it doesn't. I'm not going to work with you for 2 hours to get $10, you're getting dropped. I'd rather go and talk to someone else that might be able to help pay for the cell phone bill, not my lunch.

Terrible sales technique. A customer who gets wowed on a low dollar sale will most assuredly be one that returns for a big spend. The sales person who only focuses on the current sale for a customer is the one who winds up wondering why they aren't making any money.

[AWE46M3 0]

^^^ That is all too idealistic IMO. People shop and will buy where the best deals are to be had. On rare occurrences you may be right, but for the most part, people see price first and will worry about service second - generally speaking, why do you think internet businesses do so damn well?

[Chadd 916]

^^^ That is all too idealistic IMO. People shop and will buy where the best deals are to be had. On rare occurrences you may be right, but for the most part, people see price first and will worry about service second - generally speaking, why do you think internet businesses do so damn well?

People need to educate themselves on the cost of being cheap. People bitch about losing American jobs, then buy imported goods to save a couple bucks. It's the same thing with hockey shops and buying online. You can't fault someone for buying closeouts or discontinued items online, though the manufacturers obviously have too many leftovers every year. Longer product cycles and smarter buying by the shops are the only ways to avoid that issue.

This is turning into the same debate we've had dozens of times, let's keep this on track and only dealing with the issue as it was presented in the first post.

[chippa13 1844]

Ok, we've spoken in other forums about not trying stuff on in a LHS and then going to the internet to buy the equipment. But, in the summer I'm in the market for new skates. I want to go to one shop and look at the XXXX and the One95. That shop doesn't have graf. The other shop only has graf skates.

Is it Ok to go to one shop and drive them crazy to find the right skate, if I might go to another shop and buy another pair of skates. I would think it's fine, because if I had a shop that sold Graf and NBH skates in one shop I'd go there, but since I don't have that, I have to do whats best for my feet. Tell me what you guys think.

I don't see any problem with this. Such a scenario occurs enough and that might prompt one or both of the shops to expand their selections.

[Cove 38]

With the current exchange rate prices in Canada are still crazy. So I'm gunna be a prick and go on-line.

[TBLfan 25]

Exactly. If you havent worked on pure commission you really don't understand. Most people think that their $200 should mean everything in the world to me, but it doesn't. I'm not going to work with you for 2 hours to get $10, you're getting dropped. I'd rather go and talk to someone else that might be able to help pay for the cell phone bill, not my lunch.

Terrible sales technique. A customer who gets wowed on a low dollar sale will most assuredly be one that returns for a big spend. The sales person who only focuses on the current sale for a customer is the one who winds up wondering why they aren't making any money.

You can tell who is who by the time you find out their price range for that sale. I've had customers that have bought low but I knew they'd be coming back to buy more, $10 here and there adds up... BUT the guy that takes 2 hours of your time trying to haggle your price for an extra $5 off of your best deal is not worth 2 hours of my time for his $10 sale. And he'll come back and do it all over again, while someone else writes a $4,000 sale that was your up.

It's not all dollars cents, it's reading the person. And as I described its the guys that think their $200 is the most important money you'll see all day that you get rid of.

[chippa13 1844]

Exactly. If you havent worked on pure commission you really don't understand. Most people think that their $200 should mean everything in the world to me, but it doesn't. I'm not going to work with you for 2 hours to get $10, you're getting dropped. I'd rather go and talk to someone else that might be able to help pay for the cell phone bill, not my lunch.

Terrible sales technique. A customer who gets wowed on a low dollar sale will most assuredly be one that returns for a big spend. The sales person who only focuses on the current sale for a customer is the one who winds up wondering why they aren't making any money.

You can tell who is who by the time you find out their price range for that sale. I've had customers that have bought low but I knew they'd be coming back to buy more, $10 here and there adds up... BUT the guy that takes 2 hours of your time trying to haggle your price for an extra $5 off of your best deal is not worth 2 hours of my time for his $10 sale. And he'll come back and do it all over again, while someone else writes a $4,000 sale that was your up.

It's not all dollars cents, it's reading the person. And as I described its the guys that think their $200 is the most important money you'll see all day that you get rid of.

If you don't treat it that way then you're making a mistake. The best advertising is word of mouth. Treat each one well because a bad reputation is a tough thing to lose.

[Dotes 0]

I kinda felt like I wasted the owners time at the next closest LHS to my house. I went in there to look at the One90 so I could compare them to the One95 and One75 when they come out next month. So he sees what he can help me with and we talk about the new skates coming out and he even measures my foot so we'd know what size I'd need. So since I couldn't buy the boots cause they weren't out yet, I looked at the sticks which he told me he had a good deal on the old model One90 sticks...kinda wanting me to get one of the 15 he had extra off his hands. I wanted to buy something cause this guy was spending so much time with me. But he was out of adult white hockey socks and even water bottles with the straws on top! Jeeze. I kept hearing wait a month for everything!

[TBLfan 25]

I didn't say that I dont treat there money as it is important, the people that I'm talking about are the ones that think it's the most important. So they will haggle, ask for free stuff, expect you to miss lunch and ignore other customers, etc... They are just pains in the ass.

[chippa13 1844]

I didn't say that I dont treat there money as it is important, the people that I'm talking about are the ones that think it's the most important. So they will haggle, ask for free stuff, expect you to miss lunch and ignore other customers, etc... They are just pains in the ass.

The day I go into a hockey shop and the worker treats his big mac as more important than my sale is the day I stop going to that hockey shop.

[Bmplam 1]

I kinda felt like I wasted the owners time at the next closest LHS to my house. I went in there to look at the One90 so I could compare them to the One95 and One75 when they come out next month. So he sees what he can help me with and we talk about the new skates coming out and he even measures my foot so we'd know what size I'd need. So since I couldn't buy the boots cause they weren't out yet, I looked at the sticks which he told me he had a good deal on the old model One90 sticks...kinda wanting me to get one of the 15 he had extra off his hands. I wanted to buy something cause this guy was spending so much time with me. But he was out of adult white hockey socks and even water bottles with the straws on top! Jeeze. I kept hearing wait a month for everything!

But if you buy the One 95 from him when they come out, or when you need new skates, no time of his was wasted. You seem to appreciate the time he spent with you and it sounds like you will most likely buy from him when you need gear, tape or whatever. Thats the owners way of building a relationship with a potential customer.

What the origional poster is doing is fine so long as he is upfront. What would be wrong is if the lhs guy tries to sell him ill fitting skates to keep him from buying proper fitting skates from his competition.

[TBLfan 25]

I didn't say that I dont treat there money as it is important, the people that I'm talking about are the ones that think it's the most important. So they will haggle, ask for free stuff, expect you to miss lunch and ignore other customers, etc... They are just pains in the ass.

The day I go into a hockey shop and the worker treats his big mac as more important than my sale is the day I stop going to that hockey shop.

You dont read very well do you? Or is it just selective reading? There is a difference between good customer service and holding someone's hand for 2 hours(sometimes longer) while they argue with you about price.

Customer - Since, I'm spending soo much money here, you're going to give me free delivery right?

Me - I wish I could but I'm sorry, we can't deliver for free(obviously this does apply to a hockey shop but it applys to breaking a policy). Our already low prices and current sale just doesn't allow us to offer that service.

Customer - Oh come on, I know you can do it. Help me out, I'm paying your bills.

Me - Oh man, I wish I could but I'd like to keep my job. Believe me, if it was my way I'd deliver it and walk your dog but I have to answer to my boss.

Customer - Not going to keep your job for much longer if you want to charge deivery. ______ would deliver it for free.

Me - Really? When did they start doing that? I had a customer tell me that they charged per piece, not a low flat rate like we do. I'll have to talk to our general manager about that!

Customer - You should, delivery is just a right off anyway. So if I buy today and you charge me for delivery what will you give me for free?

Me - The best I can offer you is my knowledge and the confidence that you're getting a quality product.

Customer - Come on, you can't give me a ________.

Me - I'm sorry sir, but I can't. Actually that ________ at cost is more than what you're paying for your __________.

And this will literally go on until I can finally walk away. That is not worth $5 an hour. They will ask for free delivery and free gifts 10+ times, I will go and ask my manager(which means bring the manager over to reexplain that we cannot deliver and/or give him a free gift).

...And while this is happening you see customers looking for help practically waiving money at you. I'm sorry but if you know that you can literally go days(I've seen people go a week) and not make a dime, you have to make the best of your time while it is busy. It also makes the job a lot better when you're with people that actually appreciate your help.

[jimmy 194]

^^^ That is all too idealistic IMO. People shop and will buy where the best deals are to be had. On rare occurrences you may be right, but for the most part, people see price first and will worry about service second - generally speaking, why do you think internet businesses do so damn well?

Well, internet businesses do so well because they do NOT have to offer display or service. Imagine how poorly they would do if people couldn't sneak down to their local stores to see, feel, "flex" and size that product before they buy it. Some things can be bought online, like pool chlorine for example. I don't need to see or touch it, or size it. I know what it is, and what it does. In this case, price is the deciding factor. A shoe on the other hand, has to be looked at and tried on. I can't do that looking at a little 3" picture on a web site. This is where service comes in. As we discussed above, it's the people who want price and service, but can't get service online, so instead steal that service from their local store, not realizing it cost that store $$$ to offer that service.

[AWE46M3 0]

^^^ I think a lot of people buy sight unseen from the internet because of price. It's like the Mission Pro Stock thread - if the prices are good enough, people will just take a chance and I think a lot of people who buy online buy things they are familiar with too. I can't argue with the fact that they dont have near as much indirect costs, but at the same time, price above all is a huge factor. If I take the effort to go to a store to look at things I'll just buy there.

I agree with TBLfan though, it's hard to dispute that people over-value their business to you. Like I said, I used to work in golf retail, and I'd sell people irons and they'd want free golf balls, or a bag, a hat, a shirt, etc., and every time you tell them "no," they say someone else will give it to them or try to make it sound like the set of clearance clubs they're buying is the only sale you'll have all day. I never had a problem with anyone asking if we price-matched, which we did, but when it came to discounts and freebies, and they don't accept "no" for an answer, I also had no problems with telling them if they could get a better deal elsewhere, perhaps that would be in their best interest; you'd be surprised how many people would say, "oh ok, ring me up." Sometimes there were small discounts to be given, which I hardly gave, but other co-workers did give, and you know what happened to them? Well, let's just say it made it real hard for them to sell things at full price. And worth of mouth does travel and help, but not when it is, "So, you gave my friend 10% off and a box of balls, what can you do for me?" I'd tell them to take a hike, other would tell them "let me check with my manager." Funny though how they never sold more than me in and given month, with or without discount.

Just to not be totally off topic, people often came to my store looking for Mizuno, which we didnt sell until about 6 months before I left, and would often shop these along with a few other similar items we carried. Knowing that a place down the street did have them, it would be understandable and reasonable to help them compare those with items we had. If they bought from me great, if not, hopefully they found what they were looking for since we didn't have it - nothing I could do aside from try to sell them what I had; cant be made about things like that. So to the OP, again, shop the two skates, and buy what you like best, regardless of the service as long as you like the product.

[rmnyi 0]

Gotta throw my 2 cents in. As a consumer, I will gladly support a local store, any product. I'll pay a little more to support a mom/pop shop vs. big box store just as long as I get the support. Having said that, I went to a well known LHS in CT. They have great selection but the service is horrible. I was there on a Saturday and it was busy. I was prepared to buy 2 pairs of skates, for me and my daughter. The sales person was young but did know his way around the store but getting questions answered was difficult. He fitted my daughter for skates but I had to keep on top of him. Then he flat out told me I should come back during the week when it wasn't so busy. Not the answer I was looking for after drive 1.5 hrs. I totally respect the time of people at the LHS but I get tweaked when they expect me to pay full price and don't respect my time as well. Just my 2 cents...and I'm still looking for skates...

I've been reading here for a while and totally appreciate all the info you guys take the time to post. thanks!

[TBLfan 25]

Sometimes it's hard. If there's 10 customers in the store and 2 employees you cant really expect him to ignore the rest of the customers. It sucks that you had to drive 1.5 hours to get there but 1 person can only do soo much.

Now if you're the only customer(or lets say 4 customers, 5 sales people) there is no reason, buying or not that the salesman cant help you.

[rmnyi 0]

I know, which is why I didn't make a big deal of it and complain to the owner, who was there that day. I've purchased 3 pairs of skates from them and various other items but my next pair will probably not be purchased at that store. Each time I've been there, getting help is a fight. Most of the sales people are kids and they are knowledgeable but I get the impression that they are less focused on hooking me up with a pair of skates and more focused on hooking up later that night.

[Rustpot 1]

I know, which is why I didn't make a big deal of it and complain to the owner, who was there that day. I've purchased 3 pairs of skates from them and various other items but my next pair will probably not be purchased at that store. Each time I've been there, getting help is a fight. Most of the sales people are kids and they are knowledgeable but I get the impression that they are less focused on hooking me up with a pair of skates and more focused on hooking up later that night.

I had a similar experience. I was fitting shoulder pads at a Perani's in Sterling Heights. Found a pair I liked and had a few questions. I had to hunt down the pack of high-schoolers to get one of them to help me out.

All of their pads are out on the shelf, shoulders are all on hangers. I asked the kid if they had other pairs, took him 5 minutes to come back and say no. I asked if he knew where I might find the missing belly and back pads that are supposed to come with it. He had no idea. I asked him if the gear is ever inspected as it seemed the left shoulder cap is sewn on more forward than the right. He didn't think anything was wrong with it. I asked how much it was and he had to take the pads with him to check the price book. They wanted $85 for an incomplete, incorrectly made set of shoulder pads that were $65 online.

I did not feel bad buying online for that one.

[english15x 3]

At the LHS I work out we tried really hard this season to match online. We took what it was online and only added about $5. I feel that this is a very good deal. You can't compete with online on clearance items but how you can you beat free sharpening, free skate bake and good customer service for skates to save about $20+ online.

[Chadd 916]

I know, which is why I didn't make a big deal of it and complain to the owner, who was there that day. I've purchased 3 pairs of skates from them and various other items but my next pair will probably not be purchased at that store. Each time I've been there, getting help is a fight. Most of the sales people are kids and they are knowledgeable but I get the impression that they are less focused on hooking me up with a pair of skates and more focused on hooking up later that night.

That's something you should tell the owner. At least give him the opportunity to address the problem with his staff,he may not be aware of the problems.