Extreme combination radius (7/14 etc)

[SolarWind 23]

since the search doesn't allow to search for numbers [even strings like "7/14" won't return anything] here it goes...

Has anyone tried extreme combination radius such as 7'/14' or 7'/13'?

I have no problem with 7' (I think), but are there any drawbacks of having 14' or 13' radius in the rear half of the blade?

I kind of want as much blade on the ice as 11' provides, but with a bit more agility (like 9'), but I hear that 9/10 isn't really anything special hence the question.

Thanks!

[SolarWind 23]

well - 150 views & no replies...

sounds like I will have to be a guinea pig then - will probably try 7/14 as the concept sounds very good at least in theory :)

[Zac911 317]

i am using a 7/13. i also go +1 on my Pitch Holders. i am very happy with it.

[NorrisContender 4]

I have a set of step steel profiled 7'/14'. I just got them last week and have only been on the ice once with them. It's too early to really comment. I did feel like I got used to them pretty quick. The first 20 minutes I was on them I felt all out of sorts but by the end of the hour I was really feeling comfortable. I think I will like them better than the stock 11' I had but it's still too early to say.

[SolarWind 23]

The first 20 minutes I was on them I felt all out of sorts but by the end of the hour I was really feeling comfortable.

curious what was causing the weird feeling?

Were your stops & transitions Ok - that's what I'm afraid might get affected the most...

[All Flash 49]

could someone plz explain what this is a lil better?

my sharpener and i would like to know more

thanx

[SolarWind 23]

http://noicingsports.com/combination_skate_radius.html

[kovalchuk71 212]

Reminds me of a hi-lo hockey skate. Seems like the same concept.

[NorrisContender 4]

The first 20 minutes I was on them I felt all out of sorts but by the end of the hour I was really feeling comfortable.

curious what was causing the weird feeling?

Were your stops & transitions Ok - that's what I'm afraid might get affected the most...

I play D...I felt a little unstable turning front to back and vise versa...especially to my weaker side. I also felt like I was in quick sand the first time I had to turn and burn to get back on a missed pinch by my partner.

I really felt like I adjusted pretty quick though. By the end of the game I was wishing I could keep skating...

I play again Sunday night.

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

Reminds me of a hi-lo hockey skate. Seems like the same concept.

Not really.

[SolarWind 23]

there's been some discusison in FBV thread on this topic, but nothing very enlightening...

since it's been a while since the topic got started can anybody share their experience?

[Chadd 916]

I had a combo on an old pair of Grafs, 8/13 or 9/14 I think, and it was ok. I left it on those skates but have never had another pair done that way. I didn't feel any benefit to my skating at the time.

just to clarify, I didn't have bob/jimmy do them

[SolarWind 23]

just to clarify - I shouldn't have mentioned Bob or noicing for that matter as this question isn't about them - it's about the combo itself

I had the combo for a while, but am having second thoughts now

not even sure how it's expected to work with a longer rear radius when in all tight turns & crossovers the weight is on the heels anyways so technically since the radius there is longer so should be the curve no?

[guasto74 0]

Been using a 7/13 for the past few skates coming from a 9. I generally have the same reaction others have had. It's okay but not sure I'll stick with it. Surprisingly, it didn't take long to get used to but I'm not sure it has benefitted me in any way. I guess I'm a little more stable and maybe more blade on the ice has made me a touch faster but nothing too noticeable. I have noticed that it has affected my stopping. Maybe it's because I don't like to feel that much blade in the heel or it could simply be that I've been kind of out of it the last few skates. Anyways, I'm skating on my regular 9' steel tonight so I will make a decision after tonight.

I like to feel the forward pitch but with the 7/13 I didn't really feel anything. Maybe more blade in the heel negates it.

[highorder 0]

I was on a 7'/14' for a few months. I just switched to a 7'/12' (Bob's recommendation) because I felt like I had lost turning ability. Bob suggested that I must make alot of hard, heel turns, because skaters like that dont like the combo.

He also said that many skaters (specifically Euro skaters) like an even bigger combo, i.e. 11'/18'

The 7'/14' was very stable; lots of blade on the ice.

[jcp2 2]

I'm on 8'/14' but I also got FBV at the same time. I think I'm feeling the pluses of the FBV so much that I haven't really thought about if the combo would have made a difference by itself.

[jimmy 194]

I'm on 8'/14' but I also got FBV at the same time. I think I'm feeling the pluses of the FBV so much that I haven't really thought about if the combo would have made a difference by itself.

Anytime multiple changes are made it's hard to identify what change you may be feeling. For example, if you changed your hollow from 3/8 to 1/2, you will pick up some speed. At the same time if you changed your radius from 9' to 10', you'll also pick up speed. So you may think it's the radius change that did it, but the hollow change contributed as well. The FBV speed increase is awesome. So isn't the speed increase going from a 9' to say a 7/14. If you have another set of steel that hasn't been radiused, why not slap a FBV on there and compare the two.

[jcp2 2]

I'm on 8'/14' but I also got FBV at the same time. I think I'm feeling the pluses of the FBV so much that I haven't really thought about if the combo would have made a difference by itself.

Anytime multiple changes are made it's hard to identify what change you may be feeling. For example, if you changed your hollow from 3/8 to 1/2, you will pick up some speed. At the same time if you changed your radius from 9' to 10', you'll also pick up speed. So you may think it's the radius change that did it, but the hollow change contributed as well. The FBV speed increase is awesome. So isn't the speed increase going from a 9' to say a 7/14. If you have another set of steel that hasn't been radiused, why not slap a FBV on there and compare the two.

I would but it's too late. I liked what I got so I sent my backups to you in the mail last week. You may be profiling them as you read this :)

[SolarWind 23]

anybody bother to comment on the physics behind the combos?

as I think about it I'm very getting very curious on how it's even supposed to work at higher speeds since the weight it pretty much always on the heels in any high speed manoeuvres & so the rear (usually longer) radius would kick in making it nearly impossible to exercise a tight pivot, crossover etc

surely when gliding at moderate speeds the front shorter radius would help making the circle smaller, but really not by that much if you switch from 9’ to let’s say 7’

on the other hand 9’ vs 14’ in the rear makes a HUGE difference in terms of turning radius – you’re talking (from my personal observation) essentially about 2-3 meters bigger circle radius in all high speed agility/escape moves

plus even in a normal stride all 3 parts of the blade are used - starting with a heel, then mid section then finishing with a toe flick so technically it doesn't really matter that much which radius is longer & which is shorter?

now throwing FBV into the mix - it takes care of the glide by ensuring you don't sink into the ice anymore - something that previously used to be achieved with more shallow hollow & longer radius. Having that said does it mean with FBV a longer radius isn't needed anymore?

on top of all that - more blade on the ice makes it a bit more difficult to execure stops & transitions (more chances an edge would catch an ice)

so what gives?

am I missing something?

[deadmanjolt 1]

Has anyone been able to get a triple compound radius done? Somewhere on these boards, someone mentioned the red wings players used triple compound radius and the idea sounds intriguing.

[tamtamg 12]

Has anyone been able to get a triple compound radius done? Somewhere on these boards, someone mentioned the red wings players used triple compound radius and the idea sounds intriguing.

I actually bought a pair of Kris Draper Prostock XXXX. They have a triple compound radius on Step Steel. They felt kind of weird at first, but I haven't really noticed any massive improvements. Maybe i need to go back to my old skates so i can really appreciate the differences. Anyways, the guys at no icing sports do do a triple compound radius job if you want to try it out. http://noicingsports.com/custom_combination_radius.html

As a side note, could any one tell me what the different radii are being used on draper's skates?

[guasto74 0]

anybody bother to comment on the physics behind the combos?

as I think about it I'm very getting very curious on how it's even supposed to work at higher speeds since the weight it pretty much always on the heels in any high speed manoeuvres & so the rear (usually longer) radius would kick in making it nearly impossible to exercise a tight pivot, crossover etc

surely when gliding at moderate speeds the front shorter radius would help making the circle smaller, but really not by that much if you switch from 9’ to let’s say 7’

on the other hand 9’ vs 14’ in the rear makes a HUGE difference in terms of turning radius – you’re talking (from my personal observation) essentially about 2-3 meters bigger circle radius in all high speed agility/escape moves

plus even in a normal stride all 3 parts of the blade are used - starting with a heel, then mid section then finishing with a toe flick so technically it doesn't really matter that much which radius is longer & which is shorter?

now throwing FBV into the mix - it takes care of the glide by ensuring you don't sink into the ice anymore - something that previously used to be achieved with more shallow hollow & longer radius. Having that said does it mean with FBV a longer radius isn't needed anymore?

on top of all that - more blade on the ice makes it a bit more difficult to execure stops & transitions (more chances an edge would catch an ice)

so what gives?

am I missing something?

Everything above sounds accurate. However, I think the more speed comes into play because a combo radius has more blade on the ice which will give the skater a more stable base to push off of. If the base is more stable, then it will be easier to maintain a solid knee bend and therefore a more powerful skating stride. Not saying that skilled skaters that use a regular radius don't or can't maintain a powerful stride. I'm just speculating on what would makes a combo radius a faster profile than a regular radius.

After having tried one out a few times, I think it did make me a touch faster and I don't think I lost too much agilitywise, but stopping was definitely an issue and the main reason I'm considering sticking with a regular 9.

[Chadd 916]

You should be on your toes when you're skating, the larger radius won't come into play at all when moving forward. It should only come into play when skating backwards.

[SolarWind 23]

You should be on your toes when you're skating, the larger radius won't come into play at all when moving forward. It should only come into play when skating backwards.

care to elaborate please?

when you're gliding forward on the flats of the blade or even on an edge the actual balance point heavily depends on speed, curve and lean angle

I'd say your statement is only accurate for the straight forward glide while on the flats or a slight edge

but in all other cases I'd tend to disagree with it - while skating on a curve at higher speeds with a moderate to high leav the weight is on the heels - basic powerskating 101 (hence all the comments about a loss of turning ability above)

by the way when skating backwards same concept applies, but in reverse

so since the front portion of the blade is used for pushoffs the shorter radius would hurt it just as much as the longer radius in rear supposed to help for the forward stride.

[Chadd 916]

You should be on your toes when you're skating, the larger radius won't come into play at all when moving forward. It should only come into play when skating backwards.

care to elaborate please?

when you're gliding forward on the flats of the blade or even on an edge the actual balance point heavily depends on speed, curve and lean angle

I'd say your statement is only accurate for the straight forward glide while on the flats or a slight edge

but in all other cases I'd tend to disagree with it - while skating on a curve at higher speeds with a moderate to high leav the weight is on the heels - basic powerskating 101 (hence all the comments about a loss of turning ability above)

by the way when skating backwards same concept applies, but in reverse

so since the front portion of the blade is used for pushoffs the shorter radius would hurt it just as much as the longer radius in rear supposed to help for the forward stride.

Evidently all the power skating instructors I've all talked to were wrong. They wanted people on the front half of their skates while striding and back on the middle while turning for improved balance. I'm sure the pro teams that employ them would be interested in hearing how bad their advice is as well.