Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[pizzakid13 5]

yeah, i thought so. i just wanted to make sure. 

so, if i wanted a little less bite than the 100/50, which is the cut to get? that FBV chart is pretty confusing.

[GunRunner 28]

When I ordered my X-01, I ordered a bunch of spinners with it.  I have since sold all of my spinners and I now have just one, the 90/75 which is 3/4" equivalent on Blackstone's chart.  I have everyone on the 90/75 from the guys in my beer league to all of the kids on my sons Squirt team.  I know it sounds crazy but the best way to explain it is the glide of a 3/4" ROH but the edges and bite of a 1/2" ROH.  I love it so much that again, it's the only spinner I own.  I've even toyed with the thought of getting either an 80/75 or 85/75 which is down in the 1" range

[readysteady 0]

guys is there any tool/equipment to checks the hollow of a skate ? I read that only You are sets the spinners with different hollows or changing the position of a diamond tip - i know that is the most accurate way - but i'm only curious.

I found something like that form the incredible edger

is there any similar tool ??

[pizzakid13 5]

On 9/30/2016 at 9:29 PM, GunRunner said:

When I ordered my X-01, I ordered a bunch of spinners with it.  I have since sold all of my spinners and I now have just one, the 90/75 which is 3/4" equivalent on Blackstone's chart.  I have everyone on the 90/75 from the guys in my beer league to all of the kids on my sons Squirt team.  I know it sounds crazy but the best way to explain it is the glide of a 3/4" ROH but the edges and bite of a 1/2" ROH.  I love it so much that again, it's the only spinner I own.  I've even toyed with the thought of getting either an 80/75 or 85/75 which is down in the 1" range

i would be interested in trying the 90/75 but the picture makes it look like it has wicked edges. why is that?

[GunRunner 28]

I'm not sure but I feel that it has the right amount of bite and edge angle.  I had a 100/50 spinner and quickly got rid of it, it just didn't feel like it had enough bite for me.  I wish Blackstone had some type of demo program. there are a lot of FBV spinners I'd like to try but not willing to drop $68 just to not like it and either be stuck with it or try and sell it

[darkhors 88]

53 minutes ago, GunRunner said:

I'm not sure but I feel that it has the right amount of bite and edge angle.  I had a 100/50 spinner and quickly got rid of it, it just didn't feel like it had enough bite for me.  I wish Blackstone had some type of demo program. there are a lot of FBV spinners I'd like to try but not willing to drop $68 just to not like it and either be stuck with it or try and sell it

I have the 100/50 on my skates and I feel like if I were to go 90/75, I'd have less bite than I currently do. I think the 100/50 is awesome and as of now, I don't think I'd want to change anything.

[GunRunner 28]

I have no doubt that it is personal preference from skater to skater as far as how each FBV feels.  If you look at Blackstone's literature, the 90/75 actually has more bite angle than the 100/50 which is why I feel the 90/75 gives me the speed and glide of a 3/4" ROH but the edges similar to 1/2" ROH.  According to Blackstone, the second number is the bite angle with 50 being less, 75 being more and 100 being the most. 

[pizzakid13 5]

those pics dont help either. how can a blade with that much of a cut be on the less bite side?

[GunRunner 28]

I agree that those pictures don't help and are more for reference rather than technical drawings to scale.  This is from Blackstone's site that explains it in words. Just remember that a sheet of standard notebook paper is 3 thousandths of an inch so when they are talking 1, 3/4 and 1/2 of a thousandths, it's a very small increment.  The deeper the flat, the more bite angle you will have.  My guess is the 90/75 actually looks more like the 100/50 in terms of the width of the flat area but is just deeper to get the more bite angle.  So take the 100/50 picture, remove just the fangs and take the fangs from the 90/75 and put them on the 100/50 and that's probably more accurate.

"The depth of the Flat is available at three different levels. 50 – 75 – 100. The deepest depth, 100, represents 1 thousandths of an inch. Such a small increment is more shallow than any radius of hollow (ROH) available. 75 represents ¾ of a Thou, 50 represents ½ of a Thou"

[pizzakid13 5]

On 9/27/2016 at 6:15 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Yes. 

No need to crossgrind when changing hollows. 

i read this wrong JR. i thought you said "you need" so good thing i re-read that.

On 9/27/2016 at 6:15 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

 

[pizzakid13 5]

8 hours ago, GunRunner said:

I agree that those pictures don't help and are more for reference rather than technical drawings to scale.  This is from Blackstone's site that explains it in words. Just remember that a sheet of standard notebook paper is 3 thousandths of an inch so when they are talking 1, 3/4 and 1/2 of a thousandths, it's a very small increment.  The deeper the flat, the more bite angle you will have.  My guess is the 90/75 actually looks more like the 100/50 in terms of the width of the flat area but is just deeper to get the more bite angle.  So take the 100/50 picture, remove just the fangs and take the fangs from the 90/75 and put them on the 100/50 and that's probably more accurate.

"The depth of the Flat is available at three different levels. 50 – 75 – 100. The deepest depth, 100, represents 1 thousandths of an inch. Such a small increment is more shallow than any radius of hollow (ROH) available. 75 represents ¾ of a Thou, 50 represents ½ of a Thou"

ok, i'll stick with 100/50 because i do not want more bite.

[GoalForFun 176]

If carbon-coated steel isn't supposed to be stoned, how do you get rid of the lip that builds when you initially crossgrind the steel?

[jimmy 194]

14 hours ago, GoalForFun said:

If carbon-coated steel isn't supposed to be stoned, how do you get rid of the lip that builds when you initially crossgrind the steel?

First, what do you mean by carbon coated steel? Black coated diamond-carbon coated?  Second, if you are getting a lip, you're putting way to much pressure while crossgrinding. Black steel doesn't have a lip created if done correctly. Regular steel shouldn't either unless it's cheap chinese crap.

 

[NoWise 0]

Hi guys!

I was introduced to FBV about six monts ago and I've liked it a lot. But I could use a little bit of your help.

I read this whole thread(took about 2 weeks) to really understand the concept and get an idea to what direction I want to go.

My problem is that I haven't found the perfect FBV yet and my sharpener doesn't have too many spinner(6 exactly).

I have tested 90/50 twice(over 10hours with each sharpening) and had same problems every time I skate. I really like the glide and top speed with that setting but I'm lacking bite in turns and my first three steps to accelerate are little wobbly. Also some other balance issues with that setting. And getting push off in corners by opponents.

I got 85/50 after my first 90/50. That felt better in bite. But according all info gathered from this thread this shouldn't be the case? I chose 85/50 because I found some Blackstone chart in internet stated 85/50 to above 90/50 in terms of bite.. I then afterwards found this thread and started question my thoughts and feelings about 85/50. Has anyone else found 85/50 to have more bite than 90/50 or is that even possible? Anyhow I then tried again 90/50 to make sure if it could be better in bite but no. Same issues again.. Haven't had 85/50 for second time though since with that too I felt I could have even more bite..

Now I just got a new set of steel (ramonedge) which are noticeably taller then factory steel and a bit wider if remember correctly. I went for 85/75 this time. I've only skated once with this but I really liked the bite in turns and acceleration and better balance. I didn't like that I felt more drag than 90/50 . Also had a little bit of that choppines when making rapid stops. But I remember having those also first time when trying 90/50 and after adjusting time they were gone so I'm assuming to get rid of those in time.

My sharpener only has 80/75, 85/75, 80/50, 80/50, 85/50, 88/50 and 90/50 so I'm pondering to get my factory steel to get sharpened somewhere else(second nearest FBV prolly 200 miles away).

Is 75 depth  no-no to me? Can I get more glide moving up from 85/75 to 90/75 or 95/75 or is it just more drag? or maybe both due to wider flat but more edge angle??
Or should I go upper in 50 depth to get more bite angle say 95/50 or 100/50?

And does steel quality, width or heightness make a significant role in FBV?

I appreciate any advice!

ps. sorry if bad grammar, I live in Europe

Edited October 19, 2016 by NoWise

[chiefs17 2]

10 hours ago, NoWise said:

Hi guys!

I was introduced to FBV about six monts ago and I've liked it a lot. But I could use a little bit of your help.

I read this whole thread(took about 2 weeks) to really understand the concept and get an idea to what direction I want to go.

My problem is that I haven't found the perfect FBV yet and my sharpener doesn't have too many spinner(6 exactly).

I have tested 90/50 twice(over 10hours with each sharpening) and had same problems every time I skate. I really like the glide and top speed with that setting but I'm lacking bite in turns and my first three steps to accelerate are little wobbly. Also some other balance issues with that setting. And getting push off in corners by opponents.

I got 85/50 after my first 90/50. That felt better in bite. But according all info gathered from this thread this shouldn't be the case? I chose 85/50 because I found some Blackstone chart in internet stated 85/50 to above 90/50 in terms of bite.. I then afterwards found this thread and started question my thoughts and feelings about 85/50. Has anyone else found 85/50 to have more bite than 90/50 or is that even possible? Anyhow I then tried again 90/50 to make sure if it could be better in bite but no. Same issues again.. Haven't had 85/50 for second time though since with that too I felt I could have even more bite..

Now I just got a new set of steel (ramonedge) which are noticeably taller then factory steel and a bit wider if remember correctly. I went for 85/75 this time. I've only skated once with this but I really liked the bite in turns and acceleration and better balance. I didn't like that I felt more drag than 90/50 . Also had a little bit of that choppines when making rapid stops. But I remember having those also first time when trying 90/50 and after adjusting time they were gone so I'm assuming to get rid of those in time.

My sharpener only has 80/75, 85/75, 80/50, 80/50, 85/50, 88/50 and 90/50 so I'm pondering to get my factory steel to get sharpened somewhere else(second nearest FBV prolly 200 miles away).

Is 75 depth  no-no to me? Can I get more glide moving up from 85/75 to 90/75 or 95/75 or is it just more drag? or maybe both due to wider flat but more edge angle??
Or should I go upper in 50 depth to get more bite angle say 95/50 or 100/50?

And does steel quality, width or heightness make a significant role in FBV?

I appreciate any advice!

ps. sorry if bad grammar, I live in Europe

May I ask what your skating ability is, and what level hockey you are playing?

[NoWise 0]

2 hours ago, chiefs17 said:

May I ask what your skating ability is, and what level hockey you are playing?

I played from age 7 to 14 seriously. Then had 15 years off(besides outdoor games during every winter). And now 4th year back in business althought level of hockey is low nowadays. Propably close to beerleague level in NA. Just playing for fun with friends. I could play higher but that would be too serious..???? I consider myself pretty good skater especially backwards since used to play D as a kid.

Oh and I use triple radius with very low radius front and back. Weight around 200lbs..

[chiefs17 2]

22 hours ago, NoWise said:

I played from age 7 to 14 seriously. Then had 15 years off(besides outdoor games during every winter). And now 4th year back in business althought level of hockey is low nowadays. Propably close to beerleague level in NA. Just playing for fun with friends. I could play higher but that would be too serious..???? I consider myself pretty good skater especially backwards since used to play D as a kid.

Oh and I use triple radius with very low radius front and back. Weight around 200lbs..

The reason I asked is because you seem to really be into the fine tuning of blades, like being able to tell the difference in glide between 85/75 and 90/50.  But there are some contradicting descriptions in your original post.  Such as having chatter after a fresh sharpening at 90/50, but then saying you didn't have enough bite with that same sharpening.

Is your local sharpener very good at what he does?  Do you check your edges for level after a sharpening?  It sounds like you may have a bad sharpening if you have chatter, and no bite, all on the same skates.

My suggestion - Just get a regular ROH sharpening and see how it feels. There are hundreds of NHL players still using ROH, and they are doing just fine.  Don't get caught up by the hype of FBV, and make things more complicated for yourself.  After all, it's just fun hockey with your buddies, right?

Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I couldn't even tell you the last time I used an FBV spinner.

[All Flash 49]

8 hours ago, chiefs17 said:

The reason I asked is because you seem to really be into the fine tuning of blades, like being able to tell the difference in glide between 85/75 and 90/50.  But there are some contradicting descriptions in your original post.  Such as having chatter after a fresh sharpening at 90/50, but then saying you didn't have enough bite with that same sharpening.

Is your local sharpener very good at what he does?  Do you check your edges for level after a sharpening?  It sounds like you may have a bad sharpening if you have chatter, and no bite, all on the same skates.

My suggestion - Just get a regular ROH sharpening and see how it feels. There are hundreds of NHL players still using ROH, and they are doing just fine.  Don't get caught up by the hype of FBV, and make things more complicated for yourself.  After all, it's just fun hockey with your buddies, right?

Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I couldn't even tell you the last time I used an FBV spinner.

Not sure how I feel when some one says "Dont believe the hype." Or anything along those lines when it comes to FBV. And I won't lie..... I am totally using religion as a comparison.

 

[NoWise 0]

10 hours ago, chiefs17 said:

The reason I asked is because you seem to really be into the fine tuning of blades, like being able to tell the difference in glide between 85/75 and 90/50.  But there are some contradicting descriptions in your original post.  Such as having chatter after a fresh sharpening at 90/50, but then saying you didn't have enough bite with that same sharpening.

Is your local sharpener very good at what he does?  Do you check your edges for level after a sharpening?  It sounds like you may have a bad sharpening if you have chatter, and no bite, all on the same skates.

My suggestion - Just get a regular ROH sharpening and see how it feels. There are hundreds of NHL players still using ROH, and they are doing just fine.  Don't get caught up by the hype of FBV, and make things more complicated for yourself.  After all, it's just fun hockey with your buddies, right?

Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I couldn't even tell you the last time I used an FBV spinner.

I hear you man..  I might have exaggerated "problems" with FBV and I understand the inconsistencies in my first post. I might be overdoing this.. But I'll never go back to ROH since I'm seeing and feeling the benefits of FBV over ROH sharpening.

I'll just stick with current settings!

[Chadd 916]

18 hours ago, All Flash said:

Not sure how I feel when some one says "Dont believe the hype." Or anything along those lines when it comes to FBV. And I won't lie..... I am totally using religion as a comparison.

 

I don't do hype. I am honest about what I feel, experience and know. For me, FBV feels dramatically different on the ice. My experience with the product and the company has been exceptional. I've also learned a great deal about the science behind it all and it backs up what I feel on the ice. Hey, if I thought it sucked, I would have no problem telling people that. Anyone who has been here long enough knows that I do that as well. 

[deljaso 0]

For those of you that have an X01 sharpener, can you do me a favor and look at where the spinner contacts the grinding wheel?

My spinner has always contacted the wheel high - I am attaching a couple of pictures from my sharpener that show the height of the wheel where it contacts the spinner, and the wear pattern on my spinners.  

I had a heck of a time getting even edges on a new pair of my kid's skates and looked at it closer and I'm wondering if there is a height adjustment somewhere that I'm not seeing on either the wheel or the spinner.  The worry here is when I'm using the FBV spinner, that I'm actually getting the flat/fangs correctly cut into the grinding wheel.

You can see from the pictures that the bottom 1/4-1/3 of the spinner is not used.

 

[chiefs17 2]

You need to adjust the wheel arbor, which is what the grinding wheel sits on.  There is a small socket set screw, two screws actually, one is behind the first one you will need to remove.  In your picture you can see the hole where these two screws are.  Remove the first screw so that you can loosen the second screw.  Then adjust your wheel height, tighten up the first screw and install the 2nd screw, done!  Don't worry too much about it being perfect, just eyeing it up is fine.  You will need to adjust your holder after all of this.

 

*I forgot to mention - you must remove your wheel first.

Edited October 26, 2016 by chiefs17
Remove wheel first

[deljaso 0]

Thanks, I got in there and removed the set screw (mine had only one in there) and lowered the wheel.  I appreciate your help!  Then I go to recalibrate the holder and sure enough, I lost my calibration block, hahahhaha.  I guess I'll do it by trial and error.

And I have to give a big thumbs up to Blackstone's customer support.  I posted this here because I thought I'd get a quicker response (and if someone else needed the information they could see the solution), but they gave me the same information you did, and very quickly!!

Before I bought my sharpener and since, I have read many pages of this thread.  i am reading more and see that it has been posted a couple of times.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by deljaso

[VegasHockey 1280]

I really like the FBV, but whenever I lose an edge I can barely skate whereas with a traditional ROH I only lose some bite but can still skate.

[x-track 8]

On 19.10.2016 at 10:25 AM, NoWise said:

Hi guys!

I was introduced to FBV about six monts ago and I've liked it a lot. But I could use a little bit of your help.

I read this whole thread(took about 2 weeks) to really understand the concept and get an idea to what direction I want to go.

ps. sorry if bad grammar, I live in Europe

...depending on where in europe I may help you !!!