Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[Chadd 916]

Thanks again, Chad. I was just logging in to edit that before you responded because I meant to ask about 95/1 not 90/1. (I assume you meant 90/1, not 90/a). Why do they use "100" for some cuts and "1" for others if they're equivalent? Because that's very confusing. No-Icing says that 95/1 is the smallest possible increase in bite from 100/50, but how does that change affect glide?

Sorry for the typo, I get in a rush and don't always proof my posts.

No idea why they use 1 at times and 100 others, my only guess is that they shortened it over time and just left the existing hollows labeled the old way.

I haven't tried all of the hollows, they're too expensive and not all of them come for the X02 that I have. It may very well be that it performs the most similarly, but I would be hesitant about the edge height on the 95/1. I can only base my opinions on what I have used and what I know; almost all of my guys thought 100/50 didn't have quite enough bite for them, but loved the 95/75. I have one on the 100/50 and two use 90/75, as I do.

[mc88 160]

Had the opportunity to switch from a 5/8ths ROH to a 90/75 FBV. I have to admit, I really like the feel. As far as glide is concerned, it's nothing special. I didn't notice much difference (I'm on the ice at least 1-3 hrs, 3-4 days a week). I did, however, notice a huge difference in bite. When teaching big, one-foot crossovers, I noticed my blade would start to slide out on a 5/8ths ROH, not at all with the 90/75 FBV. Same held true for tight turns. Despite the better bite, it doesn't feel any sharper than a 5/8ths ROH. Not sure how, but it feels great.

One thing I will note though is that FBV is heavily dependent on ice conditions. With a 5/8ths ROH I can skate on a hard/soft ice and not feel too much of a difference in terms of bite. With FBV, when the ice is hard, I noticed that the FBV doesn't grip nearly as well. Since I switch back and forth between two different ice surfaces, it's a bit hard to make adjustments by constantly changing the sharpening (around here it's about $15/sharpening and since I switch between surfaces so often, that's not a financially smart decision). And... since I hate having to go sharper for both surfaces, it only leaves me with two options: 1. Deal with it. 2. Since I have the edge holders, buy another set of steel and have it sharpened to a 90/1 or 95/75 and use it only for hard surfaces.

That said, I don't think I'll be going back to a ROH any time soon.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

#2 is probably your best option. If you have edge holders, even more so. Make use of them!

[YesLanges 127]

Just had the chance to play on 95/1 and it really felt great; it allowed me to cut as sharp as I can possibly cut without bottoming out and hitting the edge of my boot on the ice. Meanwhile, no bite issues stopping whereas on a ROH cut, anything that didn't hold me back on turns was way too much bite stopping. Like you, I don't really notice the difference in glide but I'd bet that it would be perceptible in a negative way if we went back to ROH. To me, the main benefit is no longer having to trade the sharpest cuts to avoid catching an edge stopping.

As far as adapting to different ice conditions, you may just want to try the Sweet Stick Re-Edger stick for hard ice, because I've noticed that (at least for me) it works just as well on FBV as on ROH and really restores the edge and tremendously extends how long I can go between sharpening. If anything, the trick is learning how many passes is too many and which parts of the blade need more passes or fewer. For me, it's only two full-length passes with only light to moderate pressure and then one heavier pass from the middle of the blade to the back end to hold sharp turns. I know that Chad's explained that it just bends the edges back in, but (again, for me), the feel is that of a sharper edge if I do it right and too much bite if I overdo it. Big fan of that Sweet Stick.

[Mimizk 114]

mc88,

Have you already tried to skate with 90/1? I'm considering to buy a xx/1 spinner for next, maybe 80/1, 85/1 or 90/1. Now I've been using 95/75. Very comfortable.

I also want to get quick changeable holder and runner for the same thinking. Then probably I will choose Quikblade rather than Tuuk Lightspeed Edge because I've felt that Quikblade was developed on the supposition that to change the blade by the skater's self. I felt as so when I saw the pulling direction of the trigger or ease of edge release. Also it's better for me that it can provide us the edges by Step.

[mc88 160]

mc88,

Have you already tried to skate with 90/1? I'm considering to buy a xx/1 spinner for next, maybe 80/1, 85/1 or 90/1. Now I've been using 95/75. Very comfortable.

I also want to get quick changeable holder and runner for the same thinking. Then probably I will choose Quikblade rather than Tuuk Lightspeed Edge because I've felt that Quikblade was developed on the supposition that to change the blade by the skater's self. I felt as so when I saw the pulling direction of the trigger or ease of edge release. Also it's better for me that it can provide us the edges by Step.

Been using LS3 with DLC and it's holding up just as well as my Step Steel Black.

[Chadd 916]

As far as adapting to different ice conditions, you may just want to try the Sweet Stick Re-Edger stick for hard ice, because I've noticed that (at least for me) it works just as well on FBV as on ROH and really restores the edge and tremendously extends how long I can go between sharpening. If anything, the trick is learning how many passes is too many and which parts of the blade need more passes or fewer. For me, it's only two full-length passes with only light to moderate pressure and then one heavier pass from the middle of the blade to the back end to hold sharp turns. I know that Chad's explained that it just bends the edges back in, but (again, for me), the feel is that of a sharper edge if I do it right and too much bite if I overdo it. Big fan of that Sweet Stick.

I carry a cheap knife sharpening stone to do the same thing without damaging the steel. It's also significantly cheaper than the sweet stick, too.

[Mimizk 114]

I'm troubled with the difference of thickness between each spinners. This is only mine or everyone feels?

Today I sharpened my skates with 90/50 spinner (usually I've used 95/75). I already noticed when I dressed grinding stone, that the height of spinner center is much lower than my 95/75 spinner. Edges were leaned. I had to rotate the dials of 3D holder from half to a round.

[x-track 8]

Great! I always wanted to get that done too. Let us know what you find.

Thanks.

hi ....after putting the machine away for summer and forgetting about it i was asked by many at first practice to sharpen them FBV....that brought back the memories of frustration as i did the first pairs ...after like 5 pairs the machine made funny noises and turning the wheel by hand felt like a seized bearing .......after not even using half a wheel in total !!

back home i disassembled the whole thing which was no biggie ...given you have the right tools ....i found cheapo chinese bearings and the sprocket on the motor that drives the belt was out of round as well .....wheel shaft as earlier mentioned : out of round , shaft dia too small , dia of wheel accepting part of shaft way too small ...locking nut wobbling and a lot of play in the threads ....as announced I had the whole thing quality made by a friend ....dressing wheel now has zero freeplay on shaft ...shaft fits snug in bearings with no freeplay ...and the whole thing is a 100% true running .

i will report back once i have it back together

i have pics but do not know how to simply attach them without using a filehost ...so if sb wants them let me know

I'm troubled with the difference of thickness between each spinners. This is only mine or everyone feels?

Today I sharpened my skates with 90/50 spinner (usually I've used 95/75). I already noticed when I dressed grinding stone, that the height of spinner center is much lower than my 95/75 spinner. Edges were leaned. I had to rotate the dials of 3D holder from half to a round.

...same here

Edited November 6, 2015 by x-track

[Coldclay 53]

Just had the chance to play on 95/1 and it really felt great; it allowed me to cut as sharp as I can possibly cut without bottoming out and hitting the edge of my boot on the ice. Meanwhile, no bite issues stopping whereas on a ROH cut, anything that didn't hold me back on turns was way too much bite stopping. Like you, I don't really notice the difference in glide but I'd bet that it would be perceptible in a negative way if we went back to ROH. To me, the main benefit is no longer having to trade the sharpest cuts to avoid catching an edge stopping.

As far as adapting to different ice conditions, you may just want to try the Sweet Stick Re-Edger stick for hard ice, because I've noticed that (at least for me) it works just as well on FBV as on ROH and really restores the edge and tremendously extends how long I can go between sharpening. If anything, the trick is learning how many passes is too many and which parts of the blade need more passes or fewer. For me, it's only two full-length passes with only light to moderate pressure and then one heavier pass from the middle of the blade to the back end to hold sharp turns. I know that Chad's explained that it just bends the edges back in, but (again, for me), the feel is that of a sharper edge if I do it right and too much bite if I overdo it. Big fan of that Sweet Stick.

So it's safe to use the Sweet Stick on FBV to extend time between sharpening? I've been reluctant to use the Sweet Stick on my FBV 100/50...

Edited November 6, 2015 by Coldclay

[YesLanges 127]

I know Chad's not a fan of the Sweet Stick, but I've had no issues with it whatsoever. The honing stone can only smooth out small nicks that extend beyond the sides of the edge, but it can't "restore" the edge itself at all. I understand that on a microscopic level, the V-shape of the Sweet Stick only bends the edge toward the inside, but to the touch of a finger and (definitely) on the ice, it feels like the edges are "restored" to being much sharper.

The only issue I've encountered is increasing (my perception of) bite too much with too many passes or too much pressure. In my experience, the Sweet Stick allows me to keep them nice and sharp a lot longer and I've noticed no difference whether they're ROH or FBV. Initially, I was very careful not to use as much pressure as I did with ROH, but after trial (and no error so far), I use the same pressure as I did with ROH. (I cut down to 2 passes recently instead of 3, because 3 left them with a little too much bite stopping, although I appreciated it turning.)

The stoning part of my "system" might not be necessary, but my standard home blade prep in between skates is to use the honing stone first to reduce nicks that extend past the edges as much as possible. Then, I do one medium-pressure pass with the Stick from toe to heel, and one more pass increasing the pressure gradually to fairly hard as it moves out from the center of the blade to the heel, because I want more bite for sharp cuts and not as much for stopping. Then, I go back over them with the honing flat stone. I go both directions with the stone on the flat but I'm also careful to go only toward the rounded toes and heels and never inward from the toe and heel because I just don't like the idea of moving it "against" the curve even though it's only on the side of the blades. I only exceed 2 passes with the Sweet Stick to get larger nicks out and I try to hit the rest of the blade as little as necessary to do that. So far, I've never had a big enough nick to ruin the edges, which was surprising to me based on how much more delicate FBV edges are supposed to be than ROH edges. Usually, when I'm done, none of the nicks I could feel with my finger beforehand is still perceptible, with the only exception being the occasional nick that's just too big to keep going back over with the Sweet Stick as many times as would probably be necessary to reduce it further.

I finish off with a coating of Sk8-Fuel but I'd appreciate someone explaining why the instructions say to wipe it all off afterwards. I wipe off only the excess, but I don't wipe the bottoms of the blades until right before I put them on; and I've also just left it on.

Edited November 8, 2015 by YesLanges

[sbecks72986 51]

Your really suppose to use a sweet stick as a touch up or in emergency situations it sounds like your using it way to much and you will eventually ruin your edges and make them very brittle. if your doing your system between every skate your definitely ruining your steel you should just get them sharpened if the get badly nicked up. Remember the small little knicks you get have no effect on your skating at all you'll never notice. I used to get my skates sharpened every time they had a little knick even though i have a X01 it wasn't nessasary.

I remember on my sweet stick packaging it says not to use as a substitute for sharpening which is what your description sounds like so I would rethink using it that much and your never really suppose to swipe it with hard pressure either you should be doing light passes only or you risk damaging the steel.

[YesLanges 127]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you have to keep in mind that whatever I'm doing to my edges is only the case until the next sharpening because the machine takes off the entire layer that could possibly be affected, although I defer to skate-sharpening experts on this. It seems to me that the worst you can do overusing the stick in that regard is make it more easy to develop nicks, but only until the next sharpening. I started doing it because after a lot of stops, the inside edges don't grip as well on turns and the outside edges start to slip out on cross-unders and I think actually sharpening them after every skate is very much overkill, at least for me (vs. NHL players who sometimes have them sharpened or swapped out in between periods).

I don't think I use it as a substitute for sharpening at all, but it does really seem to let me get the longest skating time from each sharpening. If anything, I think I still send them in for sharpening a little sooner than I could. I also play with some guys who use the stick for months in between sharpening and I see them doing 5 or 6 very hard passes in the dressing room before every game, which is what I'd consider a substitute for sharpening. And, in my case, what I consider a harder pass for me is more like "somewhat firm" rather than "light." I've never hit them with a single pass as hard as some of the guys I know who really flick that stick down the blade with a lot of pressure, and quite a few times. All I know is that my "system" takes blades that were feeling a little less grippy than I like the last time I got off the ice and makes them feel really perfect for me and with exactly the grip I need for hard turns the next time I use them. If anything, I'm sort of amazed at how well it works and how great my edges feel when I get back on the ice next time, just from this cheap little device.

Edited November 7, 2015 by YesLanges

[sbecks72986 51]

Well if it works for you than thats all that matters. I see people do 5 or 6 hard passes too and I'm like what are you doing? but your right this cheap little thing does work well thats why i tell them 1 maybe 2 passes max is all you need.

[mc88 160]

mc88,

Have you already tried to skate with 90/1?

Drove about 40 miles to test my friend's Blackstone setup and he only had a 90/1 wheel on hand (I'm used to 90/75). Seeing as I'm relatively new to a FBV, my friend told me that "a 90/1 is a true 5/8ths", so I decided to give a go anyway. Test drove it during the Sharks game (don't ask), and it felt like my runners were glued to the ice. I'm pretty sure he's wrong about it being a 5/8ths as it reminded me of a 9/16ths or even a 1/2" ROH. Made for an interesting night.

Edited November 8, 2015 by mc88

[lpgbackups 17]

This side up ?

or this side up?

[GunRunner 28]

Does anyone have a spinner close to or equivalent to a 1" ROH? I am currently on a 90/75 and I'm very happy with this spinner but I'd liketo try something a little flatter. I have a 100/50 spinner that I'm not crazy about because it didn't feel like it had good bite with it like I do the 90/75, I'm pretty sure that's the difference between the xx/50 and xx/75 spinners. I looking at giving the 80/75 (which Blackstone says is comparable to 15/16"), the 80/1 which is below the 80/75 and above the 90/50 (which Blackstone says is comparable to 1") or the 80/75 which is supposed to be comparable to a 1 1/8" ROH. If anyone has experience with these, please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

[althoma1 574]

I was using a 7/8" hollow (close to 1") before switching to FBV and have been quite happy with the 90/50 cut in FBV. 90/75 was too deep for my tastes. Those are the only two cuts I've tried, but I've had no reason to try anything other than 90/50 FBV.

With the 90/50 FBV cut I feel I get even more glide than with the 90/75 and, more noticeably, it's easier to switch from forward and to backward skating (less prominent edges). Stops also have no chatter for me with a properly done 90/50 cut, but get some with 90/75. I'm not a small guy at 6'2" and over 200lbs though and have always preferred a shallower hollow since I discovered hollows over 10 years ago when I joined the MSH site. Growing up I'd just get the standard cut once or twice a season - I now sharpen then every month or two since I'm getting a suitable hollow put on.

Edited November 9, 2015 by althoma1

[chiefs17 2]

Edit - sorry, I meant to say the second pic is how it should be when facing up.

You want the first pic down, with the ring touching the wheel.

This side up ?

or this side up?

Edited November 9, 2015 by chiefs17

[lpgbackups 17]

Thanks :-) wasnt so sure ^_^

[Solo_man11 9]

I am using 90/75 right now and was wondering what the difference is with 95/75.

[lpgbackups 17]

huge difference.......90/75 slides as hell......95/75 is much more aggressive

[Chadd 916]

I am using 90/75 right now and was wondering what the difference is with 95/75.

The old Blackstone chart listed 90/75 as roughly similar to 5/8 and the 95/75 as roughly similar to 1/2. That's pretty accurate in my experience.

[YesLanges 127]

I'm kind of surprised that 95/1 works so well for me because I was always 1/2" ROH and anything smaller was too much bite. I thought 100/50 gave me more glide but too little bite. Is there anything with bite comparable to 95/1 but glide closer to 100/50?

[Solo_man11 9]

95/1 is comparable to which hollow please? I am looking for more glide and was gonna do my back up blades to 90/50. I tried 100/50 and didn't feel it had enough glide.

I am a smaller player at 155 pounds and my height is 5.72 feet.