Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[ejj 0]

I skated on a FBV sharpening for the first time tonight. I normally skate on 3/4", and tonight I was on 90/50 FBV. I honestly didn't notice much different. I always have had plenty of glide with the 3/4" hollow, and I'm able (230lbs) to generate plenty of bite as well. I felt pretty much the same on the FBV.

I put my stock blades with a traditional 3/4" hollow back on my skates yesterday and skated 3 games. I need to take-back what I said before. The difference between the traditional sharpening and FBV was really quite dramatic. I'll stick with FBV!

[Loma 0]

SAK,

Just out of curiosity, would FBV be suitable for goalie skates and would it be of any use for a goalie to have skates sharpened like that?

Cheers

[SAK 2]

I actually just got off of a conference call with the Professor who is doing a study and the engineer who designed the FBV. According to his study (the prof.) the performance between the regular ROH grind and the FBV grind it would benifit all skaters. The trick is to find out what works for you. (it is actually fastinating on what he found out) What I would recomend based on the expierience(s) that we have is to try the 90/75 to convert over and than experiment from there. We will be working with some elite golies in the near future so hopefully I will have some better feedback for you.

[Loma 0]

Thanks SAK for your speedy reply. I'd really love to try FBV myself but I doubt it will be available anytime soon in my country.

Cheers

[Andoy 5]

Hey SAK, any word if Larry's in North Vancouver is offering FBV sharpening yet?

Very excited. I think it's only a matter of time before FBV is the standard way of sharpening!

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Seriously, guys, if you need to find out what store is doing FBV, CALL THEM YOURSELF.

Think about it. Let's say SAK sold a store some FBV discs. He doesn't work there - he has no idea if they are in use.

[goodguy 7]

I know I am a little behind the whole thread here but can you do FBV on the X01 (or X02)?

How much more do you estimate the ability to do personal sharpenings with FBV will cost (for the spinner, wheel, etc) above and beyond the machine itself.

So if I say , "FBV is the way to go" but I can't find any local shops to do it. And I get an x01, can I do it with that but how much more will I need to spend to get the ability to beyond the cost of the x01?

How hard is it to do FBV vs regular hollow in terms of skill and practice?

I am assuming the FBV sharpenings are limited to the blackstones (or am I wrong)?

Total sharpening beginner here.

One more question, what setup would you recommend for a kid (120 lbs) to try out FBV (100/75, 90/x ?) (Pair of Vapor XXXX's).

Thanks.

Edited February 9, 2009 by goodguy

[jimmy 194]

You'll need the xo2 to do the FBV. I think mini-spinners are $65 in addition to cost of machine. Use a 100/75 for your son to start.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Can be done on X01 as well.

Goodguy - Get An Edge at the Orchard Lake St-Mary's/Royal Oak rink is the only store in Metro Detroit that is set up for FBV. Tell Steve I sent ya.

[goodguy 7]

Thanks JR - Thought I was SOL on the FBV.

Everybody I talk to have never heard of it.

I will tell Steve you sent me. Thanks again.

Few questions - I don't want to mess with his skating by changing to FBV during state playoffs.

1) It is that much of a difference to where he may be skating like crap after i do it - or not that different?

2) Can it be reversed easily without grinding the blade back down to nothing (if he doesn't like it)?

3) And - how long would you give it to know whether he likes it or not (one skate, three, what)?

Thanks again guys, I am assuming the 75/100 it the starting point.

Edited February 10, 2009 by goodguy

[Jordan 13]

1) It is that much of a difference to where he may be skating like crap after i do it - or not that different?

I guess that everyone is different, but my son tried 100/75 for a couple of skates and he liked it, okay. Took about 10 minutes to adjust to. Tried 90/75 and I could tell instantly that it was right.

I tried 90/75 myself...and I was instantly amazed, completely comfortable in a matter of minutes.

2) Can it be reversed easily without grinding the blade back down to nothing (if he doesn't like it)?

All you do is get them sharpened with a regular sharpening. nothing to it.

3) And - how long would you give it to know whether he likes it or not (one skate, three, what)?

I think that he will know very quickly, within 20 minutes. If 100/75 feels like the edge grabs too much, definitely try 90/75!

There is a definite improvement in speed and gliding!!!!! :P

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I actually just got off of a conference call with the Professor who is doing a study and the engineer who designed the FBV. According to his study (the prof.) the performance between the regular ROH grind and the FBV grind it would benifit all skaters. The trick is to find out what works for you. (it is actually fastinating on what he found out) What I would recomend based on the expierience(s) that we have is to try the 90/75 to convert over and than experiment from there. We will be working with some elite golies in the near future so hopefully I will have some better feedback for you.

Both my goalies are on the 90/50 and in fact both said there was to much bite (they were on 7/8ths before)

So I just robbed the back 2/3rds past the toe with a little steel wool and they love it.

The can do the skating drills without being as tired. That and the bite on the toe is better for sliding across.

Both goalies are going to be on scholarships one in the US and one in Canada so they are pretty damn good goalies.

I also did one that plays in the OP and he had a 3/8ths before and I did them at 100/75 and he just went nuts when he got on the ice. said the bite was way better than a normal 3/8ths and the glide was awesome and he skates ALOT when playing!

[SAK 2]

I actually just got off of a conference call with the Professor who is doing a study and the engineer who designed the FBV. According to his study (the prof.) the performance between the regular ROH grind and the FBV grind it would benifit all skaters. The trick is to find out what works for you. (it is actually fastinating on what he found out) What I would recomend based on the expierience(s) that we have is to try the 90/75 to convert over and than experiment from there. We will be working with some elite golies in the near future so hopefully I will have some better feedback for you.

Both my goalies are on the 90/50 and in fact both said there was to much bite (they were on 7/8ths before)

So I just robbed the back 2/3rds past the toe with a little steel wool and they love it.

The can do the skating drills without being as tired. That and the bite on the toe is better for sliding across.

Both goalies are going to be on scholarships one in the US and one in Canada so they are pretty damn good goalies.

I also did one that plays in the OP and he had a 3/8ths before and I did them at 100/75 and he just went nuts when he got on the ice. said the bite was way better than a normal 3/8ths and the glide was awesome and he skates ALOT when playing!

There you go.......One of the things that the study said was there will be a conversion to the fbv, than people will be able to slowly move to a performance fbv. Not to confuse anyone however there are fbv's that we are developing that will even inhance more than the few that we have now. The issue is that everyone has a comfort level that they skate on whether it be a fbv or a roh and if you make a drastic change the fbv will more than likely not work because you exit your comfort level. In the test they tried a certain fbv that made them feel very fast and the players felt they were out of control. This was interesting because you would think that they would like the speed. I think that over time a person could get use to different type's of fbv's and taylor it to their game.

[Neal 41]

I think that he will know very quickly, within 20 minutes. If 100/75 feels like the edge grabs too much, definitely try 90/75!

This seems to contradict what I understand about FBV. Wouldn't the move from 100/75 to 90/75 remove glide but not impact the bite substantially? I thought that if 100/75 was too much bite the move would be to 100/50.

I'm on 100/75 and I like it, but I'm getting some grab on the back on transfers to backwards skating and chatter on stopping. If I can find a shop with the right spinner, I'm going to try 100/50.

[goodguy 7]

See this link:

http://www.flatbottomv.com/

Edited February 10, 2009 by goodguy

[pmspaul 0]

So if I heard you right JR - you CAN do an FBV on an X01?

Is there any big disadvanteage to the X01 vs the X02 for FBV?

Is the X02 just more durable but the same thing?

Also, does the bat gauge come with it (if not are there cheaper alternatives that work)?

I'm thinking that whiel buying an X01 is good for persoanl use - if I want to make a few bucks back to pay for it - will the x01 bee too little for the job.

Not talking a ton of sharpening but maybe 4+ per week?

Also, which would have more bite 100/75 or 90/75? Which is better for lighter player?

Thanks for your help.

goodguy,

I just purchased the X02 to replace my old sharpener at home after trying the FBV. I can tell you the X02 is a fantastic machine that yielded excellent results quickly and easily for me.

My experience so far has been that everyone who tries it, loves it. Then they start talking about it and more people want to try it out. The FBV has doubled the amount of skates I used to sharpen in only a few weeks since I got it. So if you do a good job and want to sharpen more skates, there will probably be people wanting you to do theirs.

The 100/75 has more bite than the 90/75 (IMO alot more). I've been starting everyone on the 90/75, most of them coming from 1/2" ROH and they all seem happy with the bite. I myself started on the 100/75 and switched to the 90/75 which I like better right now. I'd like to try the 100/50 (which is inbetween the two) when it's available in the mini-spinner.

Hope this helps.

[cbart 1]

So if I heard you right JR - you CAN do an FBV on an X01?

Is there any big disadvanteage to the X01 vs the X02 for FBV?

Is the X02 just more durable but the same thing?

Also, does the bat gauge come with it (if not are there cheaper alternatives that work)?

I'm thinking that whiel buying an X01 is good for persoanl use - if I want to make a few bucks back to pay for it - will the x01 bee too little for the job.

Not talking a ton of sharpening but maybe 4+ per week?

Also, which would have more bite 100/75 or 90/75? Which is better for lighter player?

Thanks for your help.

goodguy,

I just purchased the X02 to replace my old sharpener at home after trying the FBV. I can tell you the X02 is a fantastic machine that yielded excellent results quickly and easily for me.

My experience so far has been that everyone who tries it, loves it. Then they start talking about it and more people want to try it out. The FBV has doubled the amount of skates I used to sharpen in only a few weeks since I got it. So if you do a good job and want to sharpen more skates, there will probably be people wanting you to do theirs.

The 100/75 has more bite than the 90/75 (IMO alot more). I've been starting everyone on the 90/75, most of them coming from 1/2" ROH and they all seem happy with the bite. I myself started on the 100/75 and switched to the 90/75 which I like better right now. I'd like to try the 100/50 (which is inbetween the two) when it's available in the mini-spinner.

Hope this helps.

My 2 cents on a semi-related note...was on 9/16 ROH before the FBV, first FBV was 100/75. More bite than I was used to, but LHS didn't have 90/75 yet. IMO glide was on par with 9/16. LHS got the 90/75 so I went with that this week. Glide was as advertised...was very pleased, but the bite on cornering was not quite where I need it to be (straightaway skating no problems, bite was fine). So I believe according to my research that 100/50 would be the ticket. Before I call my LHS and inquire if they have it, is this guy even available yet (they have the big industrial version of the Blackstone, not the X02)??

[jds 20]

Just want to jump on the bandwagon. Got a 90/75 yesterday skated for the first time today. Smooth as silk and tons of glide. I'm a pretty shitty skater but I was noticeably faster and my edges were amazing. My skate boot was touching the ice numerous times on tight turns and I felt like I had tons more bite left. Although I normally use a 1/2" ROH on my One 90's I had a 7/16 on these particular skates because they seemed to slide out at 1/2". Obvioulsy, I gave up some glide this way but with the FBV I have more of both. Unfortunately, once everyone else catches on to FBV I will go back to being the slug on the ice. Please let me know when the technology is there for shot accuracy so I can buy that performance too LOL

[Jordan 13]

QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 9 2009, 10:41 PM)

I think that he will know very quickly, within 20 minutes. If 100/75 feels like the edge grabs too much, definitely try 90/75!

This seems to contradict what I understand about FBV. Wouldn't the move from 100/75 to 90/75 remove glide but not impact the bite substantially? I thought that if 100/75 was too much bite the move would be to 100/50.

I'm on 100/75 and I like it, but I'm getting some grab on the back on transfers to backwards skating and chatter on stopping. If I can find a shop with the right spinner, I'm going to try 100/50.

Hey Neal...

A couple of points:

A move from 100/75 to 90/75, does change the amount of bite despite the "75" measure of the depth of the edeg - this is because the angle of the edge changes. you can see this in the diagram. For me, coming from 3/4 ROH, I felt that I had plenty of edge with the 90/75.

The 100/50 may well turn the trick for you, I haven't tried and only found out about it the other day.

While know from experience that there is a significant and detectable increase in glide going from standard to FBV, I don't know if one can tell the difference in glide between the 100 FBVs and the 90 FBVs.

My sense is that glide would feel about the same but you would notice the difference in edge bite more on the various FBV profiles.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Jordan

[SolarWind 23]

sorry to repeat a question, but since I've got not answers here it goes anyways - what about 100/50?

since it's right in between of 90/75 & 100/75 in terms of bite why aren't anybody mentioning it?

more importantly why is everybody suggesting to move right up to 100/75 if 90/75 doesn't provide enough bite? to me it'd only sound logical to move 1 step up (instead of 2) in bite which from 90/75 (roughly 3/4 bite) would be 100/50 (roughly 9/16 bite)

am I missing something?!

or does 100/50 need to be refreshed more often because it's doesn't have pronounced enough edges (meanins they aren't very deep, despite that they're angled as 9/16 cut)?

[Chadd 916]

The /50 spinners aren't available on the mini so there is less experience with them.

[Powerfibers 8]

The /50 spinners aren't available on the mini so there is less experience with them.

Chadd,

Do you know if there are plans to do so?

Thanks. Bob

[Chadd 916]

The /50 spinners aren't available on the mini so there is less experience with them.

Chadd,

Do you know if there are plans to do so?

Thanks. Bob

I would expect them to be available eventually.

[SolarWind 23]

The /50 spinners aren't available on the mini so there is less experience with them.

fair enough - but at least was my line of though correct?

I'm just not sure how 100/50 would actually offer more bite then let's say 90/75 - sure edges would a have a bit sharper angle, but they'd by 33% less deep?!

[Chadd 916]

The /50 spinners aren't available on the mini so there is less experience with them.

fair enough - but at least was my line of though correct?

I'm just not sure how 100/50 would actually offer more bite then let's say 90/75 - sure edges would a have a bit sharper angle, but they'd by 33% less deep?!

It's not like you should be wearing them down to the point of being flat, it shouldn't be a big factor. Depth and bite don't have the same correlation as they used to with something like an FBV