Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[Chadd 916]

Glad to hear the 90/75 mini spinners are in. Prepare to be swamped by the guys that have the X02s.

[krwwc6 0]

So would you get better glide with the 100/75 than the 90/75. . . . but the same bite? I'm a bit confused now. . . .

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

...if the first number represents the amount of flatness of the hollow, the higher the number, the flatter it is going to be.

[krwwc6 0]

But i thought the 100/75 was equivalent to the 3/8ths. . . and 90/75 was equivalent to 5/8ths. . . . am I just really confused because its not noon yet?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

It still is.

Think about it for a minute.

Edge length is still the same, however since the flatness of the hollow is less on the 90 than the 100, the edge is more pronounced, allowing you to bite harder into the ice.

[krwwc6 0]

completely understand. Thanks.

[jcsynergy 0]

any units associated with FBV (um/mm/mils/inches)?

[SAK 2]

its in 1000's of inches.

[Zamboni 6]

I can believe it, players do not like to change anything unless they have some down time. So Bert will probably wait until they have a longer period between home and away games, than slowly start to start players on it. Think about how long it takes for a player to change a stick. The great thing about this is when they do go ahead and try the fbv they usually notice a big enough difference and welcome the change. Reportedly Marleau from San Jose has had his skates in line to have the fbv put on and backed out because he just was not sure about it. Happy to say its not just NHL guys that do this. When we were at the MSH annual hockey game and offering to sharpen skates with the fbv, about 50% of the skaters declined to have it done. When some were asked why, the main reason was they did no if they would like it. People were driving in and flying in and did not want to take a chance. Those people are usually the people that wait until it is a proven item. What is cool is how much difference this makes and it is great to be apart of something new and that helps someone in a sport that i really like. I worked with steen when he was in Toronto, that is why he is using it.

I was driving across TO today on 401 so went to OTG's Concord location and had my kids and my skates done. He's in Peewee, big game tonight......and can't believe his dad is messing with his equipment before a game :o Guess its same as MSH'ers not wanting to try it in a game, hope he adjusts quick.

[SAK 2]

Let us know how it works out.

[armada 0]

I'm gonna go ahead and jump all over this train. Glide, edging and endurance would be the best way to describe the difference in the FBV. Biggest thing for me was the way you cut the ice on the corners, instead of a solid crunch you could hear crystals falling on the ice. I think I need to tinker with it a little more, I was sticking more in my transitions then usual. Could be because I got new Step steel with 100/75 and the height of the blade is making the difference. Any ideas guys?

[Moto 1]

I can believe it, players do not like to change anything unless they have some down time. So Bert will probably wait until they have a longer period between home and away games, than slowly start to start players on it. Think about how long it takes for a player to change a stick. The great thing about this is when they do go ahead and try the fbv they usually notice a big enough difference and welcome the change. Reportedly Marleau from San Jose has had his skates in line to have the fbv put on and backed out because he just was not sure about it. Happy to say its not just NHL guys that do this. When we were at the MSH annual hockey game and offering to sharpen skates with the fbv, about 50% of the skaters declined to have it done. When some were asked why, the main reason was they did no if they would like it. People were driving in and flying in and did not want to take a chance. Those people are usually the people that wait until it is a proven item. What is cool is how much difference this makes and it is great to be apart of something new and that helps someone in a sport that i really like. I worked with steen when he was in Toronto, that is why he is using it.

I was driving across TO today on 401 so went to OTG's Concord location and had my kids and my skates done. He's in Peewee, big game tonight......and can't believe his dad is messing with his equipment before a game :o Guess its same as MSH'ers not wanting to try it in a game, hope he adjusts quick.

He could honestly adjust in pre-game warm up in my opinion. The only thing he would adjust to is being able to push harder and skate more aggressively..at least in my opinion. Like I said..took me about 10 mins and I felt 100% comfortable.

[guasto74 0]

Had Bob do the FBV in a 2" glide 1/2" bite and skated twice so far. My overall impressions are good but I'm not blown away. The glide is definitely there but I didn't notice a significant difference when making tight turns and really digging in. However, most of my attention was given to the glide, which is definitely noticeable. At the end of my Monday night session (not that intense but I skate hard), I could have played for another hour without a problem. I was also pretty sore from playing soccer two night before the skate.

Also, I skated on 1/2 before going to the FBV 1/2 so maybe that is another reason I didn't notice a significant change in bite.

Just sent Bob another set of steel and with a fresh FBV I'l try and pay more attention to the bite and report back.

Edited December 17, 2008 by guasto74

[Chadd 916]

Had Bob do the FBV in a 2" glide 1/2" bite and skated twice so far. My overall impressions are good but I'm not blown away. The glide is definitely there but I didn't notice a significant distance when making tight turns and really digging in. However, most of my attention was given to the glide, which is definitely noticeable. At the end of my Monday night session (not that intense but I skate hard), I could have played for another hour without a problem. I was also pretty sore from playing soccer two night before the skate.

Also, I skated on 1/2 before going to the FBV 1/2 so maybe that is another reason I didn't notice a significant change in bite.

Just sent Bob another set of steel and with a fresh FBV I'l try and pay more attention to the bite and report back.

You aren't supposed to be feeling a difference in bite. Think of it this way, you're keeping the bite you had before and getting the extra glide for free. Normally you would lose a lot of that bite in order to get the extra glide.

[Zamboni 6]

My son liked the sharpening, he's going to keep it on the skates for Thursday's game and Friday practice. He found the hardest adjustment was moving laterally while skating backwards and then planting his rear foot to 'stand' the puck carrier when he had position. Hard to describe but he's digging in(planting) quicker, sort of miss stepping a bit. Didn't cost him but I'd recomend a practise before game use especially for D, he does think his quickness, stops starts are same with increased top end speed.

[guasto74 0]

Had Bob do the FBV in a 2" glide 1/2" bite and skated twice so far. My overall impressions are good but I'm not blown away. The glide is definitely there but I didn't notice a significant distance when making tight turns and really digging in. However, most of my attention was given to the glide, which is definitely noticeable. At the end of my Monday night session (not that intense but I skate hard), I could have played for another hour without a problem. I was also pretty sore from playing soccer two night before the skate.

Also, I skated on 1/2 before going to the FBV 1/2 so maybe that is another reason I didn't notice a significant change in bite.

Just sent Bob another set of steel and with a fresh FBV I'l try and pay more attention to the bite and report back.

You aren't supposed to be feeling a difference in bite. Think of it this way, you're keeping the bite you had before and getting the extra glide for free. Normally you would lose a lot of that bite in order to get the extra glide.

That is a very accurate summation. I was just responding to some of the other posts where folks were saying how they really felt their edges dig in on turns. Perhaps they went to a deeper hollow when the tried the FBV. Getting the extra glide for free is worth it enough for me.

One question. Is it okay to hone the skates with a sharpening tool when you have a FBV? Or will it take away from the flatness of the bottom of the balde? I can't see how it would but I just wanted to ask the experts to make sure.

[Chadd 916]

Had Bob do the FBV in a 2" glide 1/2" bite and skated twice so far. My overall impressions are good but I'm not blown away. The glide is definitely there but I didn't notice a significant distance when making tight turns and really digging in. However, most of my attention was given to the glide, which is definitely noticeable. At the end of my Monday night session (not that intense but I skate hard), I could have played for another hour without a problem. I was also pretty sore from playing soccer two night before the skate.

Also, I skated on 1/2 before going to the FBV 1/2 so maybe that is another reason I didn't notice a significant change in bite.

Just sent Bob another set of steel and with a fresh FBV I'l try and pay more attention to the bite and report back.

You aren't supposed to be feeling a difference in bite. Think of it this way, you're keeping the bite you had before and getting the extra glide for free. Normally you would lose a lot of that bite in order to get the extra glide.

That is a very accurate summation. I was just responding to some of the other posts where folks were saying how they really felt their edges dig in on turns. Perhaps they went to a deeper hollow when the tried the FBV. Getting the extra glide for free is worth it enough for me.

One question. Is it okay to hone the skates with a sharpening tool when you have a FBV? Or will it take away from the flatness of the bottom of the balde? I can't see how it would but I just wanted to ask the experts to make sure.

Stones are fine but I would avoid things that damage the edges like a sweet stick.

[jimmy 194]

Had Bob do the FBV in a 2" glide 1/2" bite and skated twice so far. My overall impressions are good but I'm not blown away. The glide is definitely there but I didn't notice a significant distance when making tight turns and really digging in. However, most of my attention was given to the glide, which is definitely noticeable. At the end of my Monday night session (not that intense but I skate hard), I could have played for another hour without a problem. I was also pretty sore from playing soccer two night before the skate.

Also, I skated on 1/2 before going to the FBV 1/2 so maybe that is another reason I didn't notice a significant change in bite.

Just sent Bob another set of steel and with a fresh FBV I'l try and pay more attention to the bite and report back.

You aren't supposed to be feeling a difference in bite. Think of it this way, you're keeping the bite you had before and getting the extra glide for free. Normally you would lose a lot of that bite in order to get the extra glide.

Well said Chadd! That's it in a nutshell. I'm assuming BS will offer a setting with more bite than the 100/75 for those who want more bite than the 1/2".

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Thought BS is offering 3/8" and 5/8" cuts, how are you doing 1/2"?

[jimmy 194]

Thought BS is offering 3/8" and 5/8" cuts, how are you doing 1/2"?

The way it was explained to me, that the 100/75 has a bite in the 3/8-1/2" range and the 90/75 in the 5/8-3/4 range. It's too difficult to explain it that way.

nevertheless, I've found that those skaters who were on 9/16 and shallower hollows love the 90/75 and haven't reported any issues. Those who tried the 90/75 who skated on 3/8-1/2 hollows found the 90/75 didn't have enough bite. Once they changed to the 100/75, all was OK.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I see what you did, Steve used the same analogy but refers to it on the lower end of the spectrum.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I see what you did, Steve used the same analogy but refers to it on the lower end of the spectrum.

Ok guys for real now is there anyone that does NOT like the way this system works? Had anyone of your customers want the old sharpening back?

I want to know getting flack on another board!!!

ANYONE???

[krwwc6 0]

I see what you did, Steve used the same analogy but refers to it on the lower end of the spectrum.

Ok guys for real now is there anyone that does NOT like the way this system works? Had anyone of your customers want the old sharpening back?

I want to know getting flack on another board!!!

ANYONE???

I've followed this thread since inception and have yet to see one complaint. The only people have a neutral comment are those that expected more bite and didn't get it, but definitely felt more glide. No increased bite was noticed because of the deep hollow they used on traditional sharpening.

What message board is saying this is a stupid idea? I'd like to read their reasoning. . .

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I see what you did, Steve used the same analogy but refers to it on the lower end of the spectrum.

Ok guys for real now is there anyone that does NOT like the way this system works? Had anyone of your customers want the old sharpening back?

I want to know getting flack on another board!!!

ANYONE???

I've followed this thread since inception and have yet to see one complaint. The only people have a neutral comment are those that expected more bite and didn't get it, but definitely felt more glide. No increased bite was noticed because of the deep hollow they used on traditional sharpening.

What message board is saying this is a stupid idea? I'd like to read their reasoning. . .

http://www.network54.com/Forum/485659/thre...from+Blackstone

PS dont direct those guys back here....we wouldnt want a gang of thugs messing up the boards here....but listen to some of the garbage these parents spew.

Now just so you know one of my guys at one of our stores was the first person in the thread the rest are just people from the Toronto Area.

maybe some feedback from "PEOPLE THAT HAVE A CLUE" would help these know it all's in the Greater Toronto Area.

Just burns my drawers that they believe a Rocket scientist needs to be working on there skates when it is something that just is common sense more glide you go faster??? DUHHHH

"These guys are running this infomercial on every hockey web site. I would try it except I saw a kids skates needing new steel half way thru last season, he had a National Sport skate sharpening card.

Really, you get skates profiled for $20-30 and then let just any kid at a big box store go at them? Trace your skates profile on a peice of paper, go to hacks for sharpening a few times and then hold the trace against your steel.

A sharpener in the west end is famous for making less steel touch the ice, by mid season he is grinding plastic holders front and back."

This is the best comment so far does anyone have a clue what they are saying??

[jimmy 194]

I see what you did, Steve used the same analogy but refers to it on the lower end of the spectrum.

Ok guys for real now is there anyone that does NOT like the way this system works? Had anyone of your customers want the old sharpening back?

I want to know getting flack on another board!!!

ANYONE???

OTG, of the 300+ I've done, only 1 went back to a hollow but really didn't have a good reason. He didn't have any problems, just had a bunch of games coming up and wanted old hollow for comfort sakes. Before I offered it to the public, all my employees and many of the guys on my team test it for me. I wanted to make sure I got good feedback, as well as being able to witness them skating on it. Hands down, all positive, no one wants to go back.

As for the other board, you can't always believe everything you read, who knows it could be someone from another machine manufacturer stirring things up. All I can say is folks, try it, you have nothing to lose, going back to your old hollow is easy should you not like it.