Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[rachael7 1]

One question - with the spinner and the wheel being smaller on the XO machines, has anyone ever noticed that a 100/50 on a large machine doesn't always perfectly equal a 100/50 on an XO? Is there any reason for this to be true? Are the XO machines more difficult to sharpen on than a large machine?

I have both an X01 and a full size Blademaster, and while I don't have the Blackstone Spinner attachment for the big machine (I so want it, but $2000, ouch!), I can tell you that the ROH spinners on the X01 seem to produce edges consistent with big machine.

If you have poor edges in places, that could be a sign of uneven hand motion, insufficient passes, or improper honing. While the basic process is straightforward, it does take a bit of practice to get the feel and produce uniformly razor sharp edges. Keep at it, you'll get it.

[Chadd 916]

The faster wheel of the full size machine seems to produce a slightly better finished product in the hands of the same person from my experience.

[seabird 0]

this may seem like a silly question but should the spinner spin while dressing the wheel? mine doesn't which doesnt make sense. looking for some help. thanks

updated Jan/11 - spoke to john at blackstone and he confirmed the spinner will slightly rotate as you dress i.e. it will not travel at high rpm's but if it stops, not to worry, that means the wheel has been dressed. john was very helpful and welcomed to call anytime with questions.....great customer service which was refreshing.

Edited January 11, 2012 by seabird

[z71 0]

My edges were much better and felt more consistent last night. I took extra time and care while sharpening to keep consistent speed and light pressure.

I think I'm starting to get the basic hang of it but I can now clearly see why it takes so long to really get good at it.

[AfftonDad 88]

this may seem like a silly question but should the spinner spin while dressing the wheel? mine doesn't which doesnt make sense. looking for some help. thanks

updated Jan/11 - spoke to john at blackstone and he confirmed the spinner will slightly rotate as you dress i.e. it will not travel at high rpm's but if it stops, not to worry, that means the wheel has been dressed. john was very helpful and welcomed to call anytime with questions.....great customer service which was refreshing.

A word of caution... If the spinner is not rotating pretty well while in contact with the wheel, there is too much drag on the spinner. The reason I warn about this is because I used up my first spinner in a month (wore through to bare metal spots) because of this. Earlier in this thread there is information on how to rectify that situation by slightly flattening out the wavy washer in between the drag cap's top and the spinner. This wavy washer is what creates the drag on the spinner. After I did this I haven't worn out any more spinners in the approximately 2-3 years that I have had the sharpener (doing maybe 10-20 pairs a month). As a matter of fact, I sometimes worry that my spinner is now spinning too fast to dress the wheel adequately. You could rectify this situation by getting a new drag cap from Blackstone however, I have found that there is a little cutout next to the spinner (at least there is on my X-01) that is perfect for putting my finger up against the spinner so that I can regulate the amount of drag (I have often wondered if that is why the cutout is there).

[seabird 0]

A word of caution... If the spinner is not rotating pretty well while in contact with the wheel, there is too much drag on the spinner. The reason I warn about this is because I used up my first spinner in a month (wore through to bare metal spots) because of this. Earlier in this thread there is information on how to rectify that situation by slightly flattening out the wavy washer in between the drag cap's top and the spinner. This wavy washer is what creates the drag on the spinner. After I did this I haven't worn out any more spinners in the approximately 2-3 years that I have had the sharpener (doing maybe 10-20 pairs a month). As a matter of fact, I sometimes worry that my spinner is now spinning too fast to dress the wheel adequately. You could rectify this situation by getting a new drag cap from Blackstone however, I have found that there is a little cutout next to the spinner (at least there is on my X-01) that is perfect for putting my finger up against the spinner so that I can regulate the amount of drag (I have often wondered if that is why the cutout is there).

thanks for this additional info. rob

Edited January 11, 2012 by seabird

[z71 0]

Quick question - does the grinding wheel nut install with the circular ridge up (visible) or down (toward the wheel)? I just took mine apart to clean under it and noticed the circular ridge in the nut. I'm thinking the ridge goes down based on the way I think I took it off, but I honestly don't know. Not sure it matters, but I thought I should ask. I'm thinking the ridge is there to keep the nut off the label.

Thanks,

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Flat part down, circular ridge up.

[z71 0]

Thanks for the help JR and everyone else. I have another question - how do you approach the wheel with the heel of the blade? I know it's mainly an issue of having the "touch", but I'm having some issues in this area. It's a difficult place to start while moving smoothly so that I don't flat spot the heel. I know it's going to be difficult to explain in writing, but is there anything I can do to improve on this area (besides practice, practice, practice?).

[rachael7 1]

Come in on a tangent (go back to your geometry book if need be), moving more along the length of the blade than toward the wheel, and make contact with the bottom of the blade, just after the heel. Don't worry about the actual heel at all, just do the working part of the blade and feather out as you approach the toe (basically just move the skate straight and let it come off the wheel as you reach the toe radius). Then, on your last one or two passes before your final, do complete passes, starting and finishing at the holder. Your pressure should be VERY light when doing the toe and heel radii and increase slightly as you come onto the working part of the blade. At least, that's how I do it - JR and other experts here might be able to explain it better.

Edited January 16, 2012 by rachael7

[xaero604 0]

I apologize if I'm hijacking this thread but I wanted to see if there is any validity to some statements my LHS sharpening guy made about FBV. When I went in to get my skates profiled recently, the sharpening guy asked for some details and I disclosed that I was using FBV prior to the profiling request. He said it's great but only if the runner is straight. He mentioned that a warped runner will make FBV useless as the hollow won't be consistent throughout the length of the steel. Is there any truth to what he said or is he just trying to get back another customer that swayed to the new advances in technology?

[rachael7 1]

Both FBV and ROH can be messed up by bent blades - spots with more bite and spots with less. There may be some truth to FBV being more sensitive to that though... would have to do some drawings, but off the top of my head, the geometry does make sense, actually.

[TBR 11]

Variations in blade width and bent steel is what makes FBV's more problematic.

Having uneven edges is one thing, having no fangs is another.

[Chadd 916]

a good ROH will be better than a hack job with FBV, but you shouldn't have a hack sharpening your skates. If there is a warp, the sharpener should be fixing it.

[xaero604 0]

Thanks for the information. I guess I'll stick with my LHS's conventional method then. It's too out of the way and substantially more expensive to go to the other LHS that has FBV.

[seabird 0]

there has been some discussion comparing the x01 and x02 and the x02 being the machine of choice if you are doing more than just "family" volume sharpening. i believe this has to do with the motors. i am no electrician but looking at the motor specs of both machines can someone explain the difference.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

The X02 is a heavier-duty motor.

The X02 runs at 7000 rpm; the X01 at 3400.

[seabird 0]

The X02 is a heavier-duty motor.

The X02 runs at 7000 rpm; the X01 at 3400.

thanks...can you define heavier duty motor? and how do RMP's fact in? looking at the specs what are the key differences?

x01 -Motor: 120V, 60 Hz, 2.5 A Single Speed: 5500 RPM (No Load)

x02 -Motor: 120 V, 60 Hz, 2.8 A (3450 RPM) Single Speed: 6900 RPM

[Neal 41]

Your key differences are in the amps used and the max speed. If I'm reading those specs right, the X01 is using 2.5A at 5500 RPM. The X02 is using 2.8A at 3450, but will spin up to 6900. So the X02 is using more electricity at a lower RPM then the X01, so at its max speed the X02 should be producing more torque, while consuming quite a bit more energy.

As far as how that will effect longevity, I can't say. The construction of the two motors (bearing quality, winding quality, etc) have a lot to do with that and you can't tell those from a line of specs.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Neal

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

X01 is 5400? Looks like I was wrong there.

Thanks for the correction.

[seabird 0]

Your key differences are in the amps used and the max speed. If I'm reading those specs right, the X01 is using 2.5A at 5500 RPM. The X02 is using 2.8A at 3450, but will spin up to 6900. So the X02 is using more electricity at a lower RPM then the X01, so at its max speed the X02 should be producing more torque, while consuming quite a bit more energy.

As far as how that will effect longevity, I can't say. The construction of the two motors (bearing quality, winding quality, etc) have a lot to do with that and you can't tell those from a line of specs.

thanks for the explaination. i spoke to blackstone and they said the x01 is a direct drive and the x02 belt driven - not sure how this exactly translates into durability but from my experience with table saws, generally a belt driven saw is better than direct drive. they also said that they have next to no issues with the x01 motor eg. cant recall any returns where they had to replace a motor. lastly the motor in the x02 is the same one that is in their pro portable machines. they suggested that as a guideline +10/week you should consider the x02, <10 x01 should suffice.

[talkintothemike 4]

Ok, I think some things have changed. I swear when I went to the Blackstone site in early December, the X-01 was a belt drive and was around 3450 RPM's. Now the website alludes to a 5500 RPM rating with no mention of what the drive is. The website info for the X-02 is really confusing now. There is no mention of the drive and the motor info says 3450 RPM's and the bullet below that says 6900 RPM's. (Seabird called them and they say direct drive for the X-01, and belt drive for the X-02.)

In my opinion a direct drive motor is better and lasts longer with little/no maintenance. This whole RPM thing, especially with the X-02 has me a little confused.

A few years ago a LHS guy mentioned something to me about "surface speed" or "surface feet per second". Something about bigger wheel, less RPM's, but smaller wheel, then more RPM's. Does that mean anything to anybody?

[goblue9280 33]

That's funny, I just sent blackstone an email asking a bunch of the same questions... haven't recieved an answer yet.

My limited undesrtanding with belt driven versus direct drive in other applications is that the belt helps to absorb vibrations leading to a more stable and quieter cutting tool. Also, (not sure if this is the case with these machines) but with a belt driven motor, if the motor dies, it can be easily replaced because it's essiential an independent part of the machine... whereas direct drive motors are often integrated into the machine in such a way that you end up having to replace the whole thing.

[AfftonDad 88]

On the topic of motors... I asked one of the guys once at Blackstone if replacing a (hypothetically) blown motor on an X-01 would be a repair that they would do. He said yes, but that he believed they could talk me through it over the phone and that the motor would probably be around $100 (don't hold them to that amount as he was ballbarking it off the top of his head).

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Ok, I think some things have changed. I swear when I went to the Blackstone site in early December, the X-01 was a belt drive and was around 3450 RPM's. Now the website alludes to a 5500 RPM rating with no mention of what the drive is. The website info for the X-02 is really confusing now. There is no mention of the drive and the motor info says 3450 RPM's and the bullet below that says 6900 RPM's. (Seabird called them and they say direct drive for the X-01, and belt drive for the X-02.)

In my opinion a direct drive motor is better and lasts longer with little/no maintenance. This whole RPM thing, especially with the X-02 has me a little confused.

Maybe it did. I could've sworn it was 3400 for the X-01.

I'll get Steve or John to clear it up.