GM to buy Chrysler

[jrhky36 1]

GM is currently talking to Cebrus Capital Mgt about buying Chysler. the deal would kill Chysler as we know it. from my source within Chysler mgt he said that only Jeep and the Minivans would remain. the truck plant in mex would stay open and gm would transfer production to it. all of the chysler plants would close and a ton of people will be out of work. its a sad sad day when one company and deystroy an entire state, by laying off so many just to save their asses for bad choices they made years ago.

[troy 12]

Kerkorian recently tried to buy Chrysler I believe, for possibly the second time, but he was rebuffed. He also took some huge losses just to get out of Ford. Automakers, especially domestic ones, are in serious trouble. They're now trying to lobby for some of the bailout money to be siphoned into making car loans easier to attain. Seeing how well doling out mortgages worked, that doesn't really seem like the best idea.

[Jason Harris 31]

I noticed an article this morning about that rumor. I'm not sure what impact it will have, because it's possible that GM would treat Chrysler stores like they treat Saturn stores, so the impact at the retail level wouldn't be as severe. But from the perspective of the economies in your region, I could see the effect being huge.

What's challenging for GM and Chrysler is my salesman and I were at a Chevy dealership today and he said, "Oh, that's the new Traverse." We looked it over and thought it was a nice vehicle for its price, but I said, "The problem is I really don't trust American cars." He was in the car business for 14 years and his response was, "I don't either."

It comes down to the cliche of perception is reality but, for too many of us, the Big Three have spent twenty-five years throwing away the goodwill they built up over sixty years. I'm not sure how they attack that.

[jrhky36 1]

What's challenging for GM and Chrysler is my salesman and I were at a Chevy dealership today and he said, "Oh, that's the new Traverse."

here is gm logic. the travese, arcida, outlook, and the enclave are all the same vechile. 3 of the 4 are made in delta twp, mich with the 4th the travesre made in spring hill. tn. talk about stupidity. it should have been madE in delta twp. gm had to buy a 2 complete sets of tools for these vechiles.

[Rustpot 1]

I've said it before and I'll say it again- After working for Ford in a small capacity and spending lengthy conversations with my neighbor who is a mid-level engineering exec in the GM Tech Center- the unions are dragging the Big 3 down the tube.

In the last 5 years domestics from Ford and GM have begun to bounce back. Chrysler has been crippled since being dumped by Daimler. Their finish and trim have not gotten better despite the huge demand for improved interior quality, their Dodge sports cars do not appeal to enough enthusiasts and fall far short of the competition, they continue to diversify Jeep, a niche brand, by churning out vehicles that don't fit the brand image, and they been shooting themselves in the foot trying to corner too many markets and failing at all of them.

Sucks for all the unemployed people it will effect, but I can't say I'll miss anything Chrysler brings to the table, save Mopar sponsored factory race teams, and probably Mopar OEM supplies of parts for classic cars. In 5 years the company may have folded entirely and then even more people would be on the curb, and with no compensation more than likely, at least GM will honor union contracts and pensions most likely.

What will happen to Chrysler Headquarters? No one is going to want a giant office building with the old-school 5-point star built into the design and 20-story banners about "Ask Dr. Z" and other such nonsense from when they turn the facade into a billboard.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

What will happen to Chrysler Headquarters? No one is going to want a giant office building with the old-school 5-point star built into the design and 20-story banners about "Ask Dr. Z" and other such nonsense from when they turn the facade into a billboard.

I used to drive by there every way on the way home. I lived off that exit.

[Chadd 916]

I've said it before and I'll say it again- After working for Ford in a small capacity and spending lengthy conversations with my neighbor who is a mid-level engineering exec in the GM Tech Center- the unions are dragging the Big 3 down the tube.

In the last 5 years domestics from Ford and GM have begun to bounce back. Chrysler has been crippled since being dumped by Daimler. Their finish and trim have not gotten better despite the huge demand for improved interior quality, their Dodge sports cars do not appeal to enough enthusiasts and fall far short of the competition, they continue to diversify Jeep, a niche brand, by churning out vehicles that don't fit the brand image, and they been shooting themselves in the foot trying to corner too many markets and failing at all of them.

Sucks for all the unemployed people it will effect, but I can't say I'll miss anything Chrysler brings to the table, save Mopar sponsored factory race teams, and probably Mopar OEM supplies of parts for classic cars. In 5 years the company may have folded entirely and then even more people would be on the curb, and with no compensation more than likely, at least GM will honor union contracts and pensions most likely.

The charger is actually a nice ride, huge trunk and lots of room inside. Decent power and mileage as well on most of them. I was looking at one of them for a while.

[Rustpot 1]

What will happen to Chrysler Headquarters? No one is going to want a giant office building with the old-school 5-point star built into the design and 20-story banners about "Ask Dr. Z" and other such nonsense from when they turn the facade into a billboard.

I used to drive by there every way on the way home. I lived off that exit.

Then I truly pity you for having endured those. I would only pass by every few months heading to/from Lansing when we didn't take 696/96. I worked not a mile away for several months, but I always came in from the east on 59.

The charger is actually a nice ride, huge trunk and lots of room inside. Decent power and mileage as well on most of them. I was looking at one of them for a while.

The never really skimped on the engine, interior options and overall package were a let down IMO. I drove a '95 Taurus for 4 years, I think the body gaps on that parallel current Chrysler offerings.

Taking flagship economy cars like the Avenger and having the biggest selling point be the heated/cooled cup holder should be enough evidence. Their RWD architecture taken from Mercedes is a solid platform though and the 300/Charger/Magnum are about the only thing worth the price after incentives and whatnot.

Now that the Magnum is getting cheap on the used car market I've considered looking into one. If I fit well and the control stalks don't drive me nuts, I might be swayed at picking up an AWD R/T 6cyl. w/ under 50k miles for under $10k. My Volvo isn't looking like she'll take me much further into the future, damn swedes are a pain on the wallet. Lord knows it would have to be cheap. I drove a buddy's Dakota around for 2 days while my car was in the shop and you could not pay me to use that full time- I am convinced they use Hobbits with gorilla arms as the benchmark for interior dimensions.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Yeah, it depended if I went local or highway. If I went local I would take M-5 up to Pontiac Trail and through Pontiac, if I went hwy I went 696 to Telegraph to Square Lake to 75.

[jrhky36 1]

What will happen to Chrysler Headquarters? No one is going to want a giant office building with the old-school 5-point star built into the design and 20-story banners about "Ask Dr. Z" and other such nonsense from when they turn the facade into a billboard.

I used to drive by there every way on the way home. I lived off that exit.

1st though was that gm would move their hq there, seeing that they are trying to sell the ren cen. but that would no "pc" b/c it would destroy downtown det. so instead they deystroy the state. i drive the blg every time i take my son to hockey practice.

chadd, what was the sticker on challenger you looked at. i was told they start at 38,000.

rust, the people who are going to be hit he hardest is the supply chain. those people can't take the product elsewhere. esp if they aren't ts1649.

[sitzlejd 0]

I do marketing for a fleet management/leasing company and it came across my desk a few weeks ago that Chrysler was leaving the leasing biz altogether. It seems they couldn't afford to finance their vehicles as leases any longer, mainly b/c the residual values weren't holding up. It's strange when such a big manufacturer leaves leasing. Our fleets this year are over 80% Toyota and Nissan which tells the story right there.

[Rustpot 1]

rust, the people who are going to be hit he hardest is the supply chain. those people can't take the product elsewhere. esp if they aren't ts1649.

There may be a lot of curtailment, but there have been a lot of freeloaders on that side of the industry for a really long time. If anything it will drive the competition between the companies and strengthen Ford and GM/C in the end.

There will be lots of losses, but the cream will rise I suspect. If the firms are willing to relocate or work more nationally, companies like Hyundai/Kia that are moving assets to the US will be looking to expand in the wake left from Chrysler's footprint shrinking under new ownership.

The BIGGEST problem is that everyone was so used to status-quo for so long, that these major changes that should be adapted to will cause companies not willing to accept the fact that they can't rely on 12 million seatbelt buckle sales to fold.

If Chrysler stays independent, I predict them to be the first of the Big 3 to deunionize, or take some other drastic step away from Big 3 standards to stay afloat and renew themselves... or outright close up shop. Too bad their top excecs are all leftovers from when everyone worth a damn jumped ship long ago.

[Stampeder 2]

I really like some of the things GM is doing. The Colbalt Turbocharged is retarded fast for cheap, the Saturn Astra is a really fun car to drive and has a lot of cool features. The Camero looks like it should be great. Volt? Looks sweet.

[Jason Harris 31]

I am convinced they use Hobbits with gorilla arms as the benchmark for interior dimensions.

I saw an interesting picture in the paper the other day of a designer for one of the Japanese Big Three. To help the younger designers understand the challenges of an aging population, he was wearing a suit that simulated old age. It gave him a paunch, stoop and arthritis somehow.

[cougarscaptain87 12]

The charger is actually a nice ride, huge trunk and lots of room inside. Decent power and mileage as well on most of them. I was looking at one of them for a while.

ive got the 300, same car differnt package on it basically, i love the car and they arent all that expensive. i think if chrysler does get bought and they take their 300s and chargers away then they might as well wipe every car out. in my opinion a truck is a truck but if they keep rams and jeeps thats fine but if you look at the number of chargers and 300s on the roads compared to calibers and avengers i think it is highly outweighed in the larger class car compared to their "compact" offerings. and gm doesnt make a car like the 300/charger they have the malibu and the impala which are kinda close i guess, but the 300/charger is just a huge passenger car with tons of room, fast enough for anyone just commuting and a very comfortable car. just my opinion but i do not want to see thoes cars go anywhere.

[ktang 34]

Brampton, Ont. would lose its plant, too.

I think that GM and Ford will eventually merge. But to survive, GM needs to remove its division boundaries and centralize its designers more.

[Matt18 1]

Brampton, Ont. would lose its plant, too.

I think that GM and Ford will eventually merge. But to survive, GM needs to remove its division boundaries and centralize its designers more.

i Agree

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

The charger is actually a nice ride, huge trunk and lots of room inside. Decent power and mileage as well on most of them. I was looking at one of them for a while.

ive got the 300, same car differnt package on it basically, i love the car and they arent all that expensive. i think if chrysler does get bought and they take their 300s and chargers away then they might as well wipe every car out. in my opinion a truck is a truck but if they keep rams and jeeps thats fine but if you look at the number of chargers and 300s on the roads compared to calibers and avengers i think it is highly outweighed in the larger class car compared to their "compact" offerings. and gm doesnt make a car like the 300/charger they have the malibu and the impala which are kinda close i guess, but the 300/charger is just a huge passenger car with tons of room, fast enough for anyone just commuting and a very comfortable car. just my opinion but i do not want to see thoes cars go anywhere.

Step out of Detroit and you won't see that many domestics on the road.

[Neal 41]

Step out of Detroit and you won't see that many domestics on the road.

Traveling into Detroit on occasion, that contrast is amazing.

That said, the quality of many domestic cars has improved substantially and there is less gap between imports and domestics than there has been in decades. In some models I'd argue the gap has closed completely.

[Monty22 833]

^^^ I had a 2001 Chevy Impala that was such a POS It will take quite a bit to even consider looking at a domestic auto again. Wife and I are driving Hondas and Nissians and knock on wood, other that oil and routine maintenance, not an issue to be had. It'll be an uphill climb for the broke 3 to reverse that mindset. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Step out of Detroit and you won't see that many domestics on the road.

Traveling into Detroit on occasion, that contrast is amazing.

That said, the quality of many domestic cars has improved substantially and there is less gap between imports and domestics than there has been in decades. In some models I'd argue the gap has closed completely.

I did that once - I pulled up to a light in MI on a busy traffic day and counted the cars. Other than my import, every car at the light was a domestic. Did the same thing in Orlando and it was the complete opposite (I was driving a domestic rental)

[Rustpot 1]

^^^ I had a 2001 Chevy Impala that was such a POS It will take quite a bit to even consider looking at a domestic auto again. Wife and I are driving Hondas and Nissians and knock on wood, other that oil and routine maintenance, not an issue to be had. It'll be an uphill climb for the broke 3 to reverse that mindset. I'm sure I'm not alone.

My dad's leased 2005 Impala was a POS as well. He ended the lease as soon as the termination fee got low enough to justify it. Rode in a 2006 a co-worker here owns (or was it '07?) the difference was night and day in terms of quality and finish.

My mom has a '07 Nissan and personally, I don't think it's THAT much better. It's a nice car, but it feels designed for someone my mom's size, I feel cramped and in an awkward position, worse than the family's 3-door Focus hatch. My dad's '07 Trailblazer that he replaced the Impala with blows both out of the water, still falls FAR short of my Volvo though.

[cougarscaptain87 12]

good point, i never really thought about that. i guess i am somewhat sheltered becasue im from here, but i did notice in new york that there were plenty of imports but didnt really think anything of it, but at the same point. the 300 is the same size class as the mercedes 550 and the bmw 7 series, and thoes are obviously heads and tails above in quality and price, but my parents drive imports and they are nicer cars. im probally just talking out my ass because im from around here. i guess time will tell

[eric42434224 1]

Not only is poor management, poor quality, and high union wages to blame......but one also need to add in the HUMONGEOUS pension and health benefits they have on the books. There is no way a company can continue when it pays out huge defined benefit plans to all the retirees, as well as cover all their health costs. It just cant work. The days of pensions are numbered. Company match 401ks will be next.

[Chadd 916]

Not only is poor management, poor quality, and high union wages to blame......but one also need to add in the HUMONGEOUS pension and health benefits they have on the books. There is no way a company can continue when it pays out huge defined benefit plans to all the retirees, as well as cover all their health costs. It just cant work. The days of pensions are numbered. Company match 401ks will be next.

Actually the quality is still quite good on a lot of the models, though it's not popular to admit as much. Take someone off the street and put them in a brand new design and they would be hard pressed to tell you what the make and model is. Tell them it's a honda and they will love it, tell them they are in a ford and they'll criticize it.

I do agree that the pension issue is the biggest problem they have. I'mnot sure if they have the option of declaring chapter 11 and pushing the pension plan off to the PBGC or even walking away from it or if that provision is just available to those whose labor relations are controlled by the NLRA.