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Skate Lacing Pattern

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I thought the whole purpose of starting at the toe with an underneath start (like Avery's pic) was to reduce the lace getting cut there from skate blades...

If we skip the talk about volume. This is true and can be a valuable detail resulting in not missing an important shift!

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I think the lace lock method can give you lacebite when it comes to skates

Only if you overtighten using the lace-lock, or if your skates don't really fit to begin with...

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Exactly, it's getting rid of minor pressure points. It's not going to make a skate that doesn't fit, fit. Although it might make it more tolerable.

that's right - if the skate doesn't fit & you don't pass the pencil test then nothing would help you

Actually, that isnt true. My s15's are lacking a bit in the volume area, so I tried this. All you are doing is reversing the pattern, which creates no more volume. The lace may be going in from the outside, but it still comes out from the inside....which is exactly the same as going in from the inside and out from the outside. If you look, you will see the same number of times the laces coming to or from the inside either way. It is merely reversing direction and creating no more volume..

re your pictures - the only "same pattern" is that laces obviously cross - but if you look closer that's where the similarities end

In the inside-out pattern (your left pic) laces run tight against the tongue

in the outside-in pattern (your right pic) laces are elevated since the run at an angle - from the tongue level all the way to the top of the eyelet level which lifts them up making quite a bit higher from the tongue level

case to point - I bet after you lace tight using incude-out method you wouldn't be able to slip anything between your laces & tongue

but (of course depending how bad your volume problems are) I bet you'd be able to do it with the outside-in pattern

at least I tried it personally & it does work.

Edited by SolarWind

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No, there is the same amount of contact with the tounge. The difference, as TBL said, is that the sides of the skate are pulled in/down easier with one way, and not the other...therefore creating a bit (mm) more volume. The contact surface remains the same, merey in reverse.

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Which is exactly why Bushwalk/Lydiard can be so effective - they spread the surface contact out across the tongue, AND create a little extra volume.

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No, there is the same amount of contact with the tounge. The difference, as TBL said, is that the sides of the skate are pulled in/down easier with one way, and not the other...therefore creating a bit (mm) more volume. The contact surface remains the same, merey in reverse.

I think the tension of the laces would also be over the top of the skate as opposed to over the tongue(if the boot is not deep enough). :)

Edited by TBLfan

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Let us know how it works out. The logic makes sense. I'm gonna try to do the same and mix them up for the skate tomorrow.

I played around with some lacing. Going to try outside-in over the forefoot to relieve some pressure, then inside-out across the arch as I like it a bit more snug there, then a lace lock up top skipping the top eyelet. It feels better now, more support across the arch, less pressure on the forefoot, and definitely a lot more snug across the ankle, but doesn't seem to cause issues when I flex forward. I'm curious to see how it works on the ice. Thanks for the tips!

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I've had a little bit of luck using the "lace lock" technique on that page to actually pick up a little bit of volume in my skates. It is a royal pain in the butt to tighten and then later on take off the skates, but with the mutant feet I have, its the only way to make some skates tolerable - basically puts much of the pressure on the laces, and you can adjust the width a little bit by doing so (the laces don't go through the eyelet when they come across, they go through a 'lock' made by the opposite side's lace)

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So I used the lacing pattern, did outside in for the first 4-5 eyelets, then inside out for another 4-5 eyelets, then I do the lace lock. This did give me a little more volume in the toes/forefoot, but a fair amount of support along the arch, and my skates stayed nice and tight across the ankle. I liked it quite a bit, although now I have to lose some weight and put on some muscle at this skating level.

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I used to leave the top eyelet undone on my Vapors. I just got some One75s and have tried it both ways (I've only skated on them twice) not sure which way I like better with those.

When I did it on my Vapors it felt like I was smoother skating backwards and in my transitions/turns from backwards to forward skating (I play D), but that could have just been in my head.

Funny you should say that. When I was using my Vapor's I also preferred the top eyelet undone. I tried it after using them for a few months, and I liked the feeling of getting more forward flex. My backwards crossovers felt a lot better (I was still learning them). Now with my One75's I don't feel the need to undo the top eyelet. They feel fine as is.

I used to lace the top ankle eyelets in my vapor with the outside-in method because not only did I feel like I could get them tighter, but that method didn't loosen up as much. With my One75's I go inside-out because it seems like I can get them tighter that way, and I've tried both. It seemed like when I went outside-in with the top eyelets on the One75's, it was tightening the boot in a weird way.

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Thanks for all the tips, this has been an extremely useful discussion. I decided to get some new wax laces and play around with the patterns on my 20-year old Microns at stick-and-puck this weekend. I converged on the display lacing pattern for the bottom half eyelets:

http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/displayshoelacing.htm

and the traditional criss-cross for the top:

http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/crisscrosslacing.htm

Using the display lacing for the entire pattern got the skates so tight I immediately sensed the onset of lace burn. I solved this by going to criss-cross at the problem area.

My plastic skates probably don't provide for very good support, so the sensation I experienced upon switching from the `criss-cross' to `display' pattern was striking. I honestly felt as though I was wearing a different pair of skates. There's always the possibility of the placebo effect, of course, but I dismissed that due to the dull ache I felt in my shins (pain similar to shinsplints) for the next 12 hours. The lacing pattern clearly affected how my lower body interacted with the skates.

The only caveat is that the display lacing is a real nuisance to undo. The laces are so tight I have to use one of those skate lace hooks to untie them. But the extra stability I now feel is well worth this minor inconvenience!

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Try switching from the Display/Lydiard to Bushwalk - it's much easier to work with because the lace stays on the outside the the skate, rather than 'looping' inside where you can't get at it. Looks messy; easier to use.

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I tried the Bushwalk lacing, but it didn't seem to work as well as the Display. I honestly probably don't even need laces down near my forefeet because they are so wide (Vapors in EE and it's still a bit tight). The Display lacing doesn't want to loosen or tighten very much, so I just kind of leave it, and it actually worked great. The criss cross holds the skate much more snug, but it has a tendency to loosen, hence the lace lock up top. I'll have to snap a picture, it's actually really great.

Thanks for the tips Law!

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For whoever claims that inside-out gives a bit more volume than outside-in, look at this image for example.

in_out_1.jpg

Both skates seem to have the same pattern so they should have the same volume. Right?

But if you click this link to look at the whole picture, then you see that one skate is actually inside-out and the other is outside-in. Now tell me how one skate should give you more volume if the two are at the same tightness.

Edited by Larry54

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As far as inside-out giving more volume than outside-in, look at this image for example.

Both skates seem to have the same pattern so they should have the same volume. Right?

But if you click this link to look at the whole picture, then you see that one skate is actually inside-out and the other is outside-in. Now tell me why one skate should give you more volume if the two are at the same tightness.

Interesting comparison. I'm not sure how it would effect volume, but I think the effective difference between the lacing patterns pictures is leverage.

When I imagine tightening the the laces on the skate on the left, I believe the lace coming out and over the top would exert more leverage on the eyelet, forcing the skate "walls" down and in toward the top-center of the foot.

On the skate on the right, it seems you would lose the leverage on the top part of the eyelet, instead just pulling the eyelet inward (rather than down and in). So I would imagine that the skate on the right would appear to have more "volume" when tightened compared to the one of the left. That probably makes no sense, but it can't hurt for anyone to try both methods and see what results...

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Put your foot inside the skates and try it, you'll feel and see a difference.

+1

Plus that pic is BS. If you flip the skate so both are on their blades, you will see the difference.

Both skates seem to have the same pattern so they should have the same volume. Right?

But if you click this link to look at the whole picture, then you see that one skate is actually inside-out and the other is outside-in. Now tell me how one skate should give you more volume if the two are at the same tightness.

Did you notice that one skate is upside down?

Edited by skyscrape

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Put your foot inside the skates and try it, you'll feel and see a difference.

I have tried both and I do have a preference for the out-to-in method only because the way the top row with the knot lays across the tongue seems to reduce lace bite, like I mentioned in post #21 of THIS THREAD.

But as far as volume is concerned, no difference between the two when the laces are equally tightened.

+1

Plus that pic is BS. If you flip the skate so both are on their blades, you will see the difference.

Did you notice that one skate is upside down?

Yes I noticed. I took the picture. I did that to make a point. I just assumed that everyone would be logical enough to deduce that both amounted to exactly the same pattern, just going in the opposite direction.

Edited by Larry54

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