NZL Ice Blacks make history

[chippa13 1844]

I can't wait until Mexico starts doing the Macarena before futbol matches, Italy will do the "chicken dance", and Poland will do a nice polka.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

I still agree that this has no place in sports

A lot of people say this about the fist fighting in hockey. Shrug....

[IniNew 53]

I still agree that this has no place in sports

A lot of people say this about the fist fighting in hockey. Shrug....

In a hockey game, there is not one team that gets special treatment with the allowance of being able to fight. while the other team has to sit there and watch.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

I still agree that this has no place in sports

A lot of people say this about the fist fighting in hockey. Shrug....

In a hockey game, there is not one team that gets special treatment with the allowance of being able to fight. while the other team has to sit there and watch.

I've never been to a team sporting event where the home team didn't get some speical accomdation made for them. Whether it's having second stringers and cheerleaders form a tunnel for starters to run through as their names are read, having a marching band in the stands, or quite a few other things. I just find it funny that people here are so geared up about this form of "intimidation." For Christ's sake, they do a dance for a minute and yell. In hockey we have the lovely custom of absolutely talentless douchebags on a team whose sole reason for being there is to hop on the ice for 2 minutes a game and try to beat the ever loving shit out of another player.

I'm sure the other team would be thrilled if they could just sit there and watch, but that's kinda the thing. You're free to sit and watch the Haka, or ignore it completely. You really can't do that when it's some goon trying to bash your head in with his fist while the refs sit back and watch. So I'll tell you what: when the goon no longer exists in hockey then it'll be time to examine and define the Haka's place in sports, or lack of same.

Even at the most competive levels of rugby throwing a punch is going to land you in very hot water, in some circumstances career ending potential.

[lampliter87 8]

Valid points all.

[Chadd 916]

Valid points all.

Actually the fighting bit is totally irrelevant as you get ejected for fighting in international competition. And even in the leagues where it does not result in ejection, it is penalized. Penalized activities are obviously a violation of the rules. I'm curious to see how many more straw man arguments he is going to make.

[Surf_bum_nz 0]

You're free to sit and watch the Haka, or ignore it completely.

Even at the most competive levels of rugby throwing a punch is going to land you in very hot water, in some circumstances career ending potential.

Yes exactly you don't have to watch the haka. there was an Australian player in rugby that used to get some kicking practice in while his team mates watched.

One thing that can be frowned on or just be quite negative in the opposing teams favor is taking the piss out of it.

For example facing the opposite direction and banging your sticks =p.

Many teams have carried on with warm up while it has been performed.

The haka will never be removed from New Zealand rugby we have done it for around 120years

[Aussie Joe 0]

Its a great sight to behold. I was lucky enough to see it at High School. We had a few kiwis that got together, taught some local Aussie boys how to do it and performed it for a school assignment. Even with school boys performing it, I got shivers up my spine.

We have quite a few Maori ex pats here in Melbourne. The general rule most Aussies follow is ... "Maoris are champs, top blokes, but if you catch one angry, run boy run!" ;)

[rebel96 0]

Are you sure they silence in respect, or to reinforce their lack of support for it? If they cheer during their groups haka, they obviously don't want to be quiet for respect.

I still agree that this has no place in sports, unless it's done during the allotted warm-up, or pre-game time. Why this one team gets extra time to preform a dance merely to intimidate the other team is beyond me.

I also believe the Irish reacted beautifully, showing that they were intimidated, or entertained by it.

Yes I am sure it is in respect, because while alot of teams' supporters cheer and jeer during free kicks and conversions, in thomand park the tradition is to remain silent and respect the kicker. The same principle applied to this haka in thomand park. Silence=respect in this case.

In my opinion the haka has as much place in sports as throwing hats on the ice after a hat trick, the hand shake after a playoff series, or not lifting the stanley cup unless you've won it. It's just tradition and its exhilerating. As a kid i'd have my father call me when the haka was about to be on tv but wouldn't bother to watch the rest of the match.

Also, I'm not sure that there had ever been a NZ vs NZ haka before so I'd say the cheering during the munster haka was just pure excitement.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

I'm curious, what purpose do goons serve in hockey besides violence and intimidation? Say what you will about the Haka, it's never kicked anyone's ass. It's hardly setting up a strawman to point out that criticizing the Haka is absurd given the way hockey fans go absolutely nuts if steps to limit or remove fighting from hockey are even suggested. Not to mention the masses of hockey fans who will argue to no end that fighting has a place in hockey. And to an extent, they're right, it's part of the sport. At any rate, the two chief complaints were:

1.It's something the Kiwis do and the other team just has to stand there at watch. Reality is it is common place in sports for one team (often the home team) to have pomp and ceremony not afforded to the other.

2.It's purpose is to intimidate the competition. I'd tend to look at it more as a Kiwi tradition, after all it's not as if anyone whose reached a level to be playing the All Blacks hasn't seen the Haka before. Nor does it rise to anywhere near the level of the practice of keeping players who are utterly useless outside of their ability to attack members of the opposing team on a rooster. So tell you what: when the hockey world cleans up the issue of goons then you can tell the rugby world that a Haka has "no place in sports."

Considering there Chadd that you were just complaining in another thread about guys emulating the dangerous play of the 1970's Flyers in beer league hockey I'd think you'd realize the problem of goons is signficantly greater than that posed by a Kiwi rugby tradition finding it's way onto the ice. Just something to think about.

[eric42434224 1]

I'm curious, what purpose do goons serve in hockey besides violence and intimidation? Say what you will about the Haka, it's never kicked anyone's ass. It's hardly setting up a strawman to point out that criticizing the Haka is absurd given the way hockey fans go absolutely nuts if steps to limit or remove fighting from hockey are even suggested. Not to mention the masses of hockey fans who will argue to no end that fighting has a place in hockey. And to an extent, they're right, it's part of the sport. At any rate, the two chief complaints were:

1.It's something the Kiwis do and the other team just has to stand there at watch. Reality is it is common place in sports for one team (often the home team) to have pomp and ceremony not afforded to the other.

2.It's purpose is to intimidate the competition. I'd tend to look at it more as a Kiwi tradition, after all it's not as if anyone whose reached a level to be playing the All Blacks hasn't seen the Haka before. Nor does it rise to anywhere near the level of the practice of keeping players who are utterly useless outside of their ability to attack members of the opposing team on a rooster. So tell you what: when the hockey world cleans up the issue of goons then you can tell the rugby world that a Haka has "no place in sports."

Considering there Chadd that you were just complaining in another thread about guys emulating the dangerous play of the 1970's Flyers in beer league hockey I'd think you'd realize the problem of goons is signficantly greater than that posed by a Kiwi rugby tradition finding it's way onto the ice. Just something to think about.

Enforcers do serve a purpose. It is to protect their skilled players.

Home teams do have pomp and ceremony...agreed....and they should. But doesnt that team perform the haka at every game, home or away?

If they keep it in their alotted warm up time, then no problem.

Call it tradition. Call it whatever you want. It doesnt give them the right to do it. What if my team or culture has a tradition of killing a live chicken before games? Personal traditions cant be used as justification to trump the traditions of the sport.

And your comparison of haka to fighting in hockey is a text book straw man arguement.

just my opinion

[rebel96 0]

Tradition is tradition. We as hockey players should know all about that. The tradition of performing a haka before a rugby match dates back to well before the NHL was formed, which in it's shorter life span has accrued many traditions itself. I believe when Glen Wesleys number was retired at carolina the preceeding ceremony probably "wasted" 15-20 minutes of time between warm-up and puck-drop.

On the point of killing live chickens before games...first of all I'm not sure animal welfare groups would like that very much. But to counter your point do the wings fans not have a similar tradition of throwing octopi on the ice during playoffs. Granted not under the teams direct control persay (although arena laws could prevent it) it is a similar tradition. It is also a tradition that rears it's head whether the games are home or away.

The kiwi and pacific island teams performing a haka is a very old and respected tradition among rugby teams and rugby fans, whether you are a supporter or not. And if you don't like them eating into other teams warm-up time or whatever then you can be delighted when they play the Samoans and the kiwis have to take their turn watching the islanders dance.

[IniNew 53]

I don't understand how people are comparing this to fighting, or a jersey retirement as stated above.

Apples and oranges folks.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I don't understand how people are comparing this to fighting, or a jersey retirement as stated above.

Apples and oranges folks.

Because a jersey retirement is a tradition in hockey. When someone is having their jersey retired, the other team has no say in the matter. They have to stand there for 15-20 minutes while the ceremony is taking place. It's the same as people arguing that the haka is unfair because only one team get to do it.

I just don't have an issue with the haka, I also don't have an issue with the way the Irish team (in hockey) or the French and Argentenians (in rugby) reacted to it.

The Haka has been done by New Zealand rugby teams for 100 or more years, and also by their footy team on occasion and their basketball team. It's a part of the culture, and I don't begrudge it to them to do it before their events.

The same way that the anthem is sung over here before every single sporting event. Why? It's tradition. At home, the anthem is reserved for international matches between countries.

Do you think any of the European players care about the anthems of America or Canada (I'm not say this to be disrespectful to either by the way)? No, but they are part of the pre-game tradition, so they are respected and endured.

I don't see why the haka is a big deal

[rebel96 0]

dead right

[IniNew 53]

There's a difference between a Jersey being retired, or an anthem being sung... or a WAR DANCE filled with THROAT SLITTING HAND GESTURES.

Once again, Apples and Oranges.

[rebel96 0]

In the context of those particular arguments, which you have either misinterpreted or ignored, there was no difference. We are not talking about the content of the time wasting i.e. whether it is a pleasant jersey ceremony, or a "throat slitting gesture-filled war dance". Yes the content is different and in that case it is apples and oranges as you so state. But the traditions, culture, and fact that many sports have ceremonies that take up time remains the same across all sports be it hockey, rugby, tiddleywinks (i'm not sure about this one) or badminton.

I'm sure if the rugby community or anyone else for that matter has a problem with the kiwis performing hakas they would have been prohibited by now.

I think it is something that really draws a crowd. People love watching it.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

There's a difference between a Jersey being retired, or an anthem being sung... or a WAR DANCE filled with THROAT SLITTING HAND GESTURES.

Once again, Apples and Oranges.

It's actually a celebration of life and appreciation of the generosity of a friendly chief who helped the composer of the "Ka Mate" haka (which is what the all-blacks use) avoid detection by enemies, it is not a war dance. Here is the literal translation

’Tis death! ‘tis death! (or: I may die) ’Tis life! ‘tis life! (or: I may live)

’Tis death! ‘tis death! ’Tis life! ‘tis life!

This the hairy man that stands here...

…who brought the sun and caused it to shine

A step upward, another step upward!

A step upward, another... the Sun shines!

Also, no throat slitting gestures

Also, the Irish have a history of not being intimidated by the Haka, this is from 1989, led by Willie Anderson

[IniNew 53]

My arguement never stood on the side of it shouldn't be done because it takes up time. Whatever. It shouldn't be done because its a special allowance for one team to intimidate another. with a war dance, including

-

gestures.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

My arguement never stood on the side of it shouldn't be done because it takes up time. Whatever. It shouldn't be done because its a special allowance for one team to intimidate another. with a war dance, including

-

gestures.

you say "special allowance" I say 120 year old tradition

[IniNew 53]

My arguement never stood on the side of it shouldn't be done because it takes up time. Whatever. It shouldn't be done because its a special allowance for one team to intimidate another. with a war dance, including

-

gestures.

you say "special allowance" I say 120 year old tradition

The 120 year tradition can be done before they hit the field and make the other teams wait.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

My arguement never stood on the side of it shouldn't be done because it takes up time. Whatever. It shouldn't be done because its a special allowance for one team to intimidate another. with a war dance, including

-

gestures.

you say "special allowance" I say 120 year old tradition

The 120 year tradition can be done before they hit the field and make the other teams wait.

So change the tradition is what you are saying?

I've been in Landsdowne Road and witnessed the Haka by the All Blacks first hand. They also did it at my home town rugby club (one of the All Blacks first captains Dave Gallaher is from my home area, Rathmelton) when they came to commemorate the life and times of Gallaher.

It is spectacular to witness as a fan, I don't care who you support.

Why can't teams do jersey retirements at 6.40 so the hockey games can get started at the normal time instead of letting the teams do the warm ups, then doing the ceremony. It puts the players at a disadvantage because they now wait 20-30 minutes after warmups to start playing. The Haka takes about 90 seconds, is it really that much of an inconvenience?

Have you ever seen it? Are you ever likely to see it? Is anyone you know ever going to be remotely affected by it? If not, why is it of concern to you?

I've seen it, and would love to see it again.

By the way, for those interested, here is the recap of the allblacks visit to Letterkenny (my hometown).

My granny ran the post office (a side room in her home) in Ballymaleel for 45 years. It's half way between Letterkenny and Rathmelton. The rugby club is about 3/4 mile from her house, beside a place called the Silver Tassie which do a great steak, if you are ever in the area

http://www.davegallaher.com/AllBlack_Visit_Dave_Gallaher.htm

[malcb33 99]

Alright, what if they do it instead of the national anthem?

Are you going to allow every team to have their own routine or just one? It has no place on the ice.

Its funny you say it has no place on the ice. I've represented NZ many times before (for inline hockey) and teams were very disappointing that didn't do the Haka.

[skooled 0]

Most Pacific island nations still perform there own version of the HAKA in any sport. it is as much tradition for them as ANY other in ANY sport. like the squid or the hats. Do you wanna stop that?

And just as a not this was not the AUSTRALIAN team. most players are still playing for the finals this week in our national league, so we were underpowered.

[Surf_bum_nz 0]

And just as a not this was not the AUSTRALIAN team. most players are still playing for the finals this week in our national league, so we were underpowered.

It was posted on the IIHF website a few days ago it means it is the Australian team. The first time in HISTORY we beat Aussie and you have to go and say that? real class mate! Don't try take that away from em :P

Check the IIHF news as for some reason im not aloud to link