Phaneuf on Okposo

[FITLTID 0]

haha tro. i had been writing that and playing halo so it took me like a half hour. sorry bout the copyish post. yours looks much better

[Neal 41]

If I'm a Flames fan, I think this was wonderful on Phaneuf's part. Jokinen, probably the most valuable forward on the Flames after Iginla, gets run. What does fighting the kid who hit him do? Teaches the kid a lesson. Phaneuf cranking Okposo sends a much bigger message: An eye for an eye. Try and hurt one of our stars, we'll hurt one of yours. And, by the way, we're a lot better at it than you are.

It is ugly and vicious and cruel. But it is effective.

[CAmmon 2]

Isn't that exactly what the NHL is trying to get rid of though? Clean? Yes. Necessary? Hardly. Don't get me wrong I like Phaneuf, but that hit does not have a place at this time of the year.

[DarkStar50 679]

The NHL isn't trying very hard to get rid of hits like this. That is just lip service.

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

The NHL isn't trying very hard to get rid of hits like this. That is just lip service.

I concur. Hits like that sell tickets.

[Chadd 916]

The NHL isn't trying very hard to get rid of hits like this. That is just lip service.

I concur. Hits like that sell tickets.

When those hits take out skill players, the game suffers.

[fieldofdreams 0]

I don't understand the argument that this kind of hit was too hard for the preseason. Would you say, "That slapper was WAY too hard for the preseason."? No, of course not. Nor would you say a certain deke was too nasty for the preseason. Hockey is hockey. The players use this time to get their skillset up to snuff for the rest of the season. Danglers work on their dekes, sniper work on getting open and pulling the trigger, playmakers work on their passing, and the big hitters work on lining up opposing puckcarriers. I find it more to be Okposo's fault for not being aware of his surroundings. I agree that someone who throws a dirty hit should have to answer for his actions. But this nonsense of a fight following every big but clean his is getting a bit rediculous.

To paraphrase DarkStar, this is a big boy's league. You know to keep your head up. I also disagree with the argument that there are times when you are carrying the puck that you can't keep your head up. Bullshit. You KNOW that when you look down, for ANY reason, that you run the risk of getting your shit pushed in, especially if a hitter like Phaneuf is on the ice as well. It's a calculated risk, and one that Okposo was foolish for taking.

[IniNew 53]

To paraphrase DarkStar, this is a big boy's league. You know to keep your head up. I also disagree with the argument that there are times when you are carrying the puck that you can't keep your head up. Bullshit. You KNOW that when you look down, for ANY reason, that you run the risk of getting your shit pushed in, especially if a hitter like Phaneuf is on the ice as well. It's a calculated risk, and one that Okposo was foolish for taking.

Okposo didn't take any risk except for stepping on the ice. Although I agree it was a good hit and not too intense, you're way off base on Okposo. He didn't put his head down, or look down at the puck; he was pushed from behind by a backchecker.

[DarkStar50 679]

I don't understand the argument that this kind of hit was too hard for the preseason. Would you say, "That slapper was WAY too hard for the preseason."? No, of course not. Nor would you say a certain deke was too nasty for the preseason. Hockey is hockey. The players use this time to get their skillset up to snuff for the rest of the season. Danglers work on their dekes, sniper work on getting open and pulling the trigger, playmakers work on their passing, and the big hitters work on lining up opposing puckcarriers. I find it more to be Okposo's fault for not being aware of his surroundings. I agree that someone who throws a dirty hit should have to answer for his actions. But this nonsense of a fight following every big but clean his is getting a bit rediculous.

To paraphrase DarkStar, this is a big boy's league. You know to keep your head up. I also disagree with the argument that there are times when you are carrying the puck that you can't keep your head up. Bullshit. You KNOW that when you look down, for ANY reason, that you run the risk of getting your shit pushed in, especially if a hitter like Phaneuf is on the ice as well. It's a calculated risk, and one that Okposo was foolish for taking.

+1.

[psh 25]

I don't understand the argument that this kind of hit was too hard for the preseason. Would you say, "That slapper was WAY too hard for the preseason."? No, of course not. Nor would you say a certain deke was too nasty for the preseason. Hockey is hockey. The players use this time to get their skillset up to snuff for the rest of the season. Danglers work on their dekes, sniper work on getting open and pulling the trigger, playmakers work on their passing, and the big hitters work on lining up opposing puckcarriers. I find it more to be Okposo's fault for not being aware of his surroundings. I agree that someone who throws a dirty hit should have to answer for his actions. But this nonsense of a fight following every big but clean his is getting a bit rediculous.

To paraphrase DarkStar, this is a big boy's league. You know to keep your head up. I also disagree with the argument that there are times when you are carrying the puck that you can't keep your head up. Bullshit. You KNOW that when you look down, for ANY reason, that you run the risk of getting your shit pushed in, especially if a hitter like Phaneuf is on the ice as well. It's a calculated risk, and one that Okposo was foolish for taking.

I assume you haven't seen the clip. It doesn't take a big boy to steam roll a player who is off balance and engaged with another player. Head up or not, there is no way Okposo could have defended himself. I like Phaneuf's game, but this hit does nothing to increase his hard hitting cred. It just shows he has lapses of judgement or might not respect his opponents. Okposo was totally vulnerable in this instance and I hope a rule is instituted to address these types of hits. There are plenty of opportunities to hit hard and honorably and, most importantly, the league has to protect is most important asset--its players.

[ts.krajewski 0]

I dont really like big hits in pre-season seems pointless and stupid stuff like this can happen.

[DarkStar50 679]

Last time I watched an NFL pre-season game, nobody was holding back. We can talk about honor and respect but we don't play the same game these men do. They will kill their blood brother in the corner for the puck. It's what got them to that level in the first place. The NHL is 30 separate owners who collectively don't care individually about the other teams players. The players play to do whatever is necessary, even and easily crossing over the line, to win. The owners don't give a damn about who gets hurt. The players are just interchangeable parts. And yes, there is always another rough rider coming down the road to take Phaneuf's spot as the nastiest player in the NHL.

[fieldofdreams 0]

Okposo didn't take any risk except for stepping on the ice. Although I agree it was a good hit and not too intense, you're way off base on Okposo. He didn't put his head down, or look down at the puck; he was pushed from behind by a backchecker.

Again, I disagree. When he was pushed from behind, he started to lose the puck, then reached out to try and corral it. Mistake. Had he left the puck and kept his head up, he could have tried to avoid the hit, or maybe at least put himself in a better position.

I assume you haven't seen the clip. It doesn't take a big boy to steam roll a player who is off balance and engaged with another player. Head up or not, there is no way Okposo could have defended himself. I like Phaneuf's game, but this hit does nothing to increase his hard hitting cred. It just shows he has lapses of judgement or might not respect his opponents. Okposo was totally vulnerable in this instance and I hope a rule is instituted to address these types of hits. There are plenty of opportunities to hit hard and honorably and, most importantly, the league has to protect is most important asset--its players.

I HAVE seen the clip, which is why I am voicing my opinion. When two NHL-caliber skaters are skating with a full head of steam, you can't turn it off in a half second. Yes, there was contact made with the head, but it wasn't deliberate. He didn't raise his hands, elbows, or leave his feet before contact. Clean hit, Okposo was in a bad position

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

Okposo didn't take any risk except for stepping on the ice. Although I agree it was a good hit and not too intense, you're way off base on Okposo. He didn't put his head down, or look down at the puck; he was pushed from behind by a backchecker.

Again, I disagree. When he was pushed from behind, he started to lose the puck, then reached out to try and corral it. Mistake. Had he left the puck and kept his head up, he could have tried to avoid the hit, or maybe at least put himself in a better position.

You cant be serious..

[fieldofdreams 0]

Okposo didn't take any risk except for stepping on the ice. Although I agree it was a good hit and not too intense, you're way off base on Okposo. He didn't put his head down, or look down at the puck; he was pushed from behind by a backchecker.

Again, I disagree. When he was pushed from behind, he started to lose the puck, then reached out to try and corral it. Mistake. Had he left the puck and kept his head up, he could have tried to avoid the hit, or maybe at least put himself in a better position.

You cant be serious..

Quite serious, actually. What do you feel I am wrong about. Go back and re-watch the clip, in slomo if possible. That's exactly what happens. There has been plenty of times that has happened to me personally, and I choose to let the puck go rather than have my lunch handed to me. Just my personal choice.

[phunky_monkey 6]

I've watched it quite a few times now and my opinion of it is that Phaneuf was committed to the hit before Okposo was pushed, putting him off balance and most likely causing the injury. If he was not off balance I think he would have still copped a fairly big hit, but not to the same extent, much the same as Weight's hit on Sutter (though he lost balance by himself in that instance).

Was Phaneuf able to pull out of the hit? Most likely. Is it easy to do at full game speed? In my experience, not really.

Decisions like that are committed to in the heat of the moment, and it's unfortunate that Okposo was hurt.

That's my 2c anyway.

[mrusse01 0]

Okposo didn't take any risk except for stepping on the ice. Although I agree it was a good hit and not too intense, you're way off base on Okposo. He didn't put his head down, or look down at the puck; he was pushed from behind by a backchecker.

Again, I disagree. When he was pushed from behind, he started to lose the puck, then reached out to try and corral it. Mistake. Had he left the puck and kept his head up, he could have tried to avoid the hit, or maybe at least put himself in a better position.

You cant be serious..

Okposo was definitely reaching for the puck, and he got hit. It's happened a million times. As a defenseman, if you see a backchecking forward 'riding' along a guy like that, you know the opponent is going to be distracted/unable to be as agile as he'd otherwise be, and you can step up and whack him. Half the big hits you see over the course of a season are in situations where the 'off' man comes in a takes a guy out. It can be a risk for the defender because you are essentially leaving your position to double team a guy, if he's able to make a pass or somehow get by you, it will almost certainly lead to a serious scoring chance. I don't see how you create a rule to stop hits like that without totally changing the game.

Even if he was pushed into a vulnerable position, can you really expect Phaneuf. who is already skating hard right at him, to think 'hmm, he just got pushed in the back, so he's really vulnerable right now, I won't try and hit him'? It's a bang bang play, that's hockey, you don't like to see guys hurt, but it happens.

[Chadd 916]

Even if he was pushed into a vulnerable position, can you really expect Phaneuf. who is already skating hard right at him, to think 'hmm, he just got pushed in the back, so he's really vulnerable right now, I won't try and hit him'? It's a bang bang play, that's hockey, you don't like to see guys hurt, but it happens.

Phaneuf was thinking "I'm going to kill this guy" from the very start. The only thing he thought at the last instant was, "Make sure you line up the head."

[mrusse01 0]

So your opinion is that it was a legal hit, but just too hard? It's the NHL for christ's sake, they're grown men out there. If Phaneuf wants to run around trying to kill guys with a clean bodycheck, more power to him. That's why he's paid several million dollars a year.

[Chadd 916]

So your opinion is that it was a legal hit, but just too hard? It's the NHL for christ's sake, they're grown men out there. If Phaneuf wants to run around trying to kill guys with a clean bodycheck, more power to him. That's why he's paid several million dollars a year.

No. my opinion is that hits like that are legal, but shouldn't be. It has nothing to do with how hard this hit was, it has to do with trying to send guys off the ice on a stretcher. If you get your jollies seeing someone quiver on the ice or laying there not where they are, then you really need to reconsider your priorities in life.

[DarkStar50 679]

In football and hockey, which both feature hitting, I am not sorry but the fact is that the idea behind hitting is to hurt someone. You are taught, yes taught, to punish the other player. By design, through intent, with repeated aggression, you want the other player to fear you, to give up the puck before you hit him. How many games has anyone here played against a player they know they did not want coming at them when you had the puck? The type of guy who wanted to really nail you? Let's stop talking about shinny and beer league hockey. This is the NHL! These guys are professionals. They are paid to friggin' play. And when they lace'em up, they know the other team has 18 guys ready, willing, and able to destroy them. That is the nature of the beast. Hockey is a dangerous game. Accept it.

There is no avoidance theory in hockey. Through the speed of the game players find themselves in totally vulnerable positions. This is when the worst happens. AKA, shit happens.

[psh 25]

So your opinion is that it was a legal hit, but just too hard? It's the NHL for christ's sake, they're grown men out there. If Phaneuf wants to run around trying to kill guys with a clean bodycheck, more power to him. That's why he's paid several million dollars a year.

No. my opinion is that hits like that are legal, but shouldn't be. It has nothing to do with how hard this hit was, it has to do with trying to send guys off the ice on a stretcher. If you get your jollies seeing someone quiver on the ice or laying there not where they are, then you really need to reconsider your priorities in life.

The most pathetic thing about this hit is that what Phaneuf did was perhaps the worst decision he could have made from a tactical point of view. If you are his coach at that moment and it's a game that matters, you are hating him. Okposo in engaged with another Flame, yet Phaneuf steps up anyway. So, by definition, you've got an Islander free somewhere on the ice. As someone else said, if Okposo gets the pass off, someone Islander is not being marked by Phaneuf. Stupid. Furthermore, even if he connects with the hit, neither he nor the player already on Okposo will have possession. That leaves 4 Islanders free and 3 Flames free to corral the puck and break up ice. Again, Stupid.

The smart play in this instance, is to hold your position or, if you have support on the backside, to play the PUCK. If you commit, you have to come out with possession because you are leaving at least one Islander free when you step up.

This clip shows Phaneuf being not only dishonorable, but STUPID. And take note: Phaneuf has always had a marginal +/-, in fact he is a career minus. The clip is a glaring example of why he has been a liability to his team.

As I've said before in this thread, I generally like Phaneuf's game, but this play was ridiculous on many levels. Here, he looks like a bantam or midget trying to show off the weight he put on over the summer.

[Officer Dangle 0]

Okposo was definitely in a vulnerable position when he got hit, although to Phaneuf's defense, he was lining up Okposo before he got shoved by the backchecker. Questionable hit for sure, especially for preseason hockey.

Regardless, I think any contact to the head should result in a penalty. Hands, shoulder, chest, whatever. No sport out there is worth a life altering injury.

[Chadd 916]

In football and hockey, which both feature hitting, I am not sorry but the fact is that the idea behind hitting is to hurt someone.

The NFL has passed a couple rules regarding head shots over the last couple years. I'm not against hitting, but the number of guys running around trying to kill other guys has increased significantly over the last few years and that is bad for the game.

[chippa13 1844]

In football and hockey, which both feature hitting, I am not sorry but the fact is that the idea behind hitting is to hurt someone. You are taught, yes taught, to punish the other player. By design, through intent, with repeated aggression, you want the other player to fear you, to give up the puck before you hit him. How many games has anyone here played against a player they know they did not want coming at them when you had the puck? The type of guy who wanted to really nail you? Let's stop talking about shinny and beer league hockey. This is the NHL! These guys are professionals. They are paid to friggin' play. And when they lace'em up, they know the other team has 18 guys ready, willing, and able to destroy them. That is the nature of the beast. Hockey is a dangerous game. Accept it.

There is no avoidance theory in hockey. Through the speed of the game players find themselves in totally vulnerable positions. This is when the worst happens. AKA, shit happens.

And yet the NFL has adopted rules to protect players, rules that specifically prevent defensive backs from destroying receivers in vulnerable positions.

The intimidation of watching out for Phaneuf blindsiding you and the intimidation of being a defenseman going back for the puck under a strong forecheck are completely separate. One has the defenseman not wanting to get hit and the other has a guy wanting to be able to do a crossword puzzle 5 years from now.