Offshore Manufacturing

[Chadd 916]

SWEDEN?! That Communist gulag?!?!

Golden B)

I knew that on MSH IQ is most of the time negative but still ....

From what I saw skates made in china are sometime better crafted than those from canada ... eg : one95 which is finished with piss.

"Made in canada" is purely a marketing argument, it is alomost in the feature list.. "yee my skates are made in Canada => hourray"

Since most of the time you don't even see the difference between chine-made/canada-made except on the sticker inside... no wonder Bauer decided to do everything oversee - cheaper to produce for the same quality and in the end more inches to push through their anus's customers !

Don't know if you are aware of this but lately everything your country do is helping china to grow up ... it's like if the mother/current superpower is feeding the baby/future superpower !

Conclusion USA is gonna fall down like Rome did <_<

Well this is another post made by you which would contradict the one you just made

I have mine (952) for more than 9 years now - still in good shape and no complains. They are very well made. Back in the days when a skate was made in canada, it really meant something..there's nothing to be compare with the new generation of high end skates made in canada but somehow less "well crafted" that those made overseas ... sad.gif

Do you have nothing better to do then run around and Bash on Bauer?

That has more to do with trying to make the skates as light as possible than it has to do with the country of manufacture.

[TBLfan 25]

Canadian made wood sticks are also more durable than those composite sticks made in other countries too. It's obviously because Canadian made means durable!

Items that are made to perform better are less durable. A stock Honda Civic is going to be on the road longer than an Acura NSX.

[DarkStar50 679]

Is anybody going to bother to factor in the difference in shipping costs from overseas vs North America? Is someone going to claim that shipping from overseas is less expensive than in North America? So, are these products less costly to make but more expensive to deliver?

[K9 Unit 1]

Is anybody going to bother to factor in the difference in shipping costs from overseas vs North America? Is someone going to claim that shipping from overseas is less expensive than in North America? So, are these products less costly to make but more expensive to deliver?

does exchange rate effect any of this too? total noob when it comes to all this stuff

[OldNSlow 3]

There is an underlying statement of bias, ignorance, and stereotyping when people continue to believe that just because a product is "Made in China", it must be an inferior product to one made in North America. JMHO.

As someone who has been involved in the men's furnishing business (i.e. men's suits and blazers), I can tell you that men's furnishings "Made in China" are vastly inferior to virtually anything of the same material made in, for example, Romania or Lithuania. And companies have been making clothes in China for a long time and their QC is still pathetic.

[Law Goalie 147]

The issue with shipping (as it relates to hockey in particular) is that almost all of the textiles, plastics and foams originate in the Pacific Rim. Whether the equipment is assembled from those materials here or overseas, roughly the same amount of material has to be shipped from Asia to North America. I say roughly, because while it's obviously cheaper to ship flat-packed or rolled material than completed products, the fact that the vast majority of those materials are brought in by dedicated importers like J.Ennis who have their own profit to make negates any potential savings between a shipment of bulk material versus assembled products.

OldNSlow: I think what you've identified is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Clothing companies (especially) outsource sewing to Asia with the intent to save on labour; the Asian market responds to that demand by tailoring (groan) its factories to make labour costs per item as small as possible - at any cost in quality.

I still rue the day Rockport laid off their cobblers and sent everything to China; that said, their subsequent problems had to do with *how* they went offshore, not the simple fact that they did.

I absolutely guarantee you that there are superb Chinese bespoke tailors; they're just not the ones sewing dozens of el cheapo blazers per day for Gap subsidiaries.

[OldNSlow 3]

OldNSlow: I think what you've identified is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Clothing companies (especially) outsource sewing to Asia with the intent to save on labour; the Asian market responds to that demand by tailoring (groan) its factories to make labour costs per item as small as possible - at any cost in quality.

That is not correct. There have been millions spent on QC improvements in China. The fact is that those factories produce poor quality, despite tons of investment in development. There is something to be said for the manufacturing culture of a certain product.

Just to show you how you are wrong: many clothing companies have pulled out of China and have gone to Eastern Europe, where the costs are a bit higher but the quality is by far superior. It is worth it for these companies to pay more to produce. In my opinion, Bauer one95 skates = that Hugo Boss suit you keep on eyeing at Saks. :)

I don't know about the hockey products being made in China, so I won't comment on that particular issue. But, I know there are guys leaving Macy's everyday with a suit made in China and they truly believe that the quality of that suit is equivalent to the suit they passed on from Bloomingdales that was made in Mexico.

[Law Goalie 147]

I'm not denying that I've noticed the same trends, but I'd stop short of saying that product X is necessarily inferior to product Y because X came from China and Y from elsewhere (Mexico, Turkey, etc.).

Your point about the culture around certain products is well taken; it's more or less the same point I made earlier with specific respect to goalie masks. It's especially noticeable, IME, in traditional fields (that is, ones steeped in culture) like men's fashion, sports equipment, tack and saddlery, and so on, where the standards are well established, and where quality is something as ineffable as the 'hand' of a suit or the 'slide' of a goalie pad -- things that those making the products are unlikely to have experienced at all, let alone with any degree of understanding.

[DarkStar50 679]

Take this with as a big a grain of salt as you wish, but as an equipment buyer for my shops for over 30 years, the facts are that hockey equipment has been made in Asia since at least the early 90s. The Vic brand was one of the first. I knew the owner personally as he sold me the product from his Long Island warehouse. He previously had sold all Koho product in the US through the early 80s. He had Asian factories making quality product way back in the early 90s. Once the other vendors(Cooper, CCM, Koho, Canadien) saw the quality of product he imported, they followed along. So here we are in 2010, talking about Asian made hockey equipment and it's QC as if it is a new situation and the standards are not the same as North American made hockey equipment. I'm sorry, but hockey equipment from Asia has been happening for over 20 years. This is not some recent development.

[jcp2 2]

The sourcing company gets exactly what it pays for, and with an essentially absent to poorly unenforced set of national internal standards, it is entirely incumbent on the sourcing company to do their own quality control, batch to batch if need be. You are largely dependent on the reputation of the sourcing company, and in a way, it's very eBay-esque, except without the transparency of individual transaction feedback.

We're sort of in the ironic position of advocating for greater government regulation and enforcement of consumer protection and fair labor practice laws as being more American (and Canadian) than the free range capitalism currently being practiced in the People's Republic of China, as evidenced by the unfolding of the cadmium children's jewelry debacle. I'll concede that the libertarian in me admits defeat in this particular episode in this particular manner.

[chippa13 1844]

Is anybody going to bother to factor in the difference in shipping costs from overseas vs North America? Is someone going to claim that shipping from overseas is less expensive than in North America? So, are these products less costly to make but more expensive to deliver?

Obviously, the companies have found that savings in labor and raw materials shipping outweigh the added expense of shipping the finished products from overseas to North America, else they wouldn't be doing it.

[stick9 903]

Is anybody going to bother to factor in the difference in shipping costs from overseas vs North America? Is someone going to claim that shipping from overseas is less expensive than in North America? So, are these products less costly to make but more expensive to deliver?

Obviously, the companies have found that savings in labor and raw materials shipping outweigh the added expense of shipping the finished products from overseas to North America, else they wouldn't be doing it.

It goes further than that. The real savings is in inventory. The CM (contract manufacturer) has to buy all the parts needed to produce the product. They don't get paid until the product leaves their warehouse. Which is usually weeks after the order is placed and paid for. Depending on the deal you work out, you can actually defer payment...sometimes up to 120 days.

So you pay nothing to produce the product (minus tooling costs), collect the money on incoming orders and hold off on paying your CM as long as possible. On top of that, you don't have to pay taxes on warehouses full of parts or finished products and you aren't left holding the bag if they don't sell.

In the grand scheme of things. The drop in labor costs is small potatoes.

[duch 0]

The reality is that companies will continue to make their goods overseas regardless of quality issues simply because it increases their profit margin considerably. It's just business. That's my job as a company management executive, to make sure we make a profit margin and to keep any stockholders satisfied. It doesn't matter to me whether payed labour shifts from North America to the Pacific Rim countries, only that the product is acceptable on the North American market and is available to our customers because that's what makes us money. It may sound cruel but it's the way it is. If I'm white collar that's what keeps me in a job.

[chippa13 1844]

You can only ignore quality for so long before you're out of business.

[kenneth 5]

OldNSlow: I think what you've identified is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Clothing companies (especially) outsource sewing to Asia with the intent to save on labour; the Asian market responds to that demand by tailoring (groan) its factories to make labour costs per item as small as possible - at any cost in quality.

That is not correct. There have been millions spent on QC improvements in China. The fact is that those factories produce poor quality, despite tons of investment in development. There is something to be said for the manufacturing culture of a certain product.

Just to show you how you are wrong: many clothing companies have pulled out of China and have gone to Eastern Europe, where the costs are a bit higher but the quality is by far superior. It is worth it for these companies to pay more to produce. In my opinion, Bauer one95 skates = that Hugo Boss suit you keep on eyeing at Saks. :)

I don't know about the hockey products being made in China, so I won't comment on that particular issue. But, I know there are guys leaving Macy's everyday with a suit made in China and they truly believe that the quality of that suit is equivalent to the suit they passed on from Bloomingdales that was made in Mexico.

I dunno about that my One95s after 2 rec skates and 2 shinny games have already blown stiching on the top eyelets on one of my skates, and a wierd bump on one of the outsoles (noticed on the display pair as well), but i dont' really care either way. Well my chinese made pureflys and s500s still look mint. To say just because they are made in china means they are of inferior quality is just ignorant. They make alot of crap but they also make some quality items as of all countries of origin.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

exactly, it's ultimately up to the companies to remain responsible for their QC. either they inspect the product and ensure that it meets their standard, or it goes to another manufacturing firm. And china has some stiff competition from mexico (vice versa). either do it sufficiently well or we'll find someone who will that's still cheap as shit.

[DarkStar50 679]

^ + 1 and a thank you for putting it so simply. I believe the hockey companies are doing their best with QC in this environment. They know they have to.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

exactly, bauer cant afford to have their total ones blow apart after a month.

And i didnt think of this until now, but one of the posts made me think about this... for people who think hockey equipment needs to be made by people who USE it to put extra love into the subtleties... i have one response: the late brian heaton.

[ktang 34]

I think that the product has to be designed by people who have experience with hockey, but with modern "build-to-print" and "build-to-spec" techniques the production and manufacturing can be done anywhere.