The Gun Thread

[Drewhunz 3]

Thiking about ditching my Walther P99 as my carry gun. Considering the Jack Bauer Special (Heckler & Koch USP Compact) in a .357 Sig. Coming from a .40 cal I like the idea of having a larger capacity magazine with the stopping power of a larger caliber. Please share your knowledge of either the USP or the .357 Sig.

[Rustpot 1]

357Sig isn't larger than a .40, it's smaller. The round is a .40 case necked to a 9mm so to speak. The intent is to step ballistics of a 9mm round up using a higher pressure and achieving velocities greater than a 9mm Parabellum/Luger/Nato is safely capable of.

It's a good round, don't get wrong. But to move away from .40 thinking you're getting an upgrade in capacity or stopping power is incorrect. You're going to be pushing a smaller (in diameter and weight) round at faster speeds, so penetration will increase. Overall performance of the round for self defense vs. a .40 is debatable. Here's a comparison of the 9mm, 357Sig and .40S&W. This is my picture, it's of an OMC reload 9mm, and Winchester factory 357 and .40.

As far as the USP; if you haven't shot one you really need to go do so. I am a big fan of H&K pistols as far as looks and whatnot, but my experience is limited to a fullsize USP 9mm. It will not be a gun I buy, the grip felt too narrow to me and the grip texture was too rough. The front and back strap use a sort of heavy-checker profile that I felt was too jagged where it was digging in. You may want that, but I would need to cover the grip with a rubber sleeve.

What's making you rethink the P99? I have read good and bad about them, but I haven't heard anything first hand or shot one.

I own two pistols. Both are Sig Sauers, one is a 9mm P220 made in 1977 and issued to a European police or military agency before making its way here and into my hands. The second is a P229 that I have the .40 and 357 barrels for, as well as a .22LR conversion. I shoot them in defensive scenario competition. Here at my college we have a pistol club as well as a practical pistol club. I belong to the latter and we meet twice a week for two hours and go through 50-150 rounds per session. Once a month we hold amateur matches based on IDPA that we open to surrounding community members and another University near by.

[saba 0]

The difference between my GLCK 40 and SigSauer 40 is significant. Stock feel of the GLCK feels boxy and the action is not as smooth. Trigger action is a study in difference. The GLCK IMHO requires a firm pressure with the Sig very smooth from trigger to fire. Glck feels mechanical where the Sig is smooth throughout the shot, less kick

Personally I am looking at the P220R compact as my next buy

[Drewhunz 3]

Well, I was thinking of going .45, but looking at the ballistics the .357 Sig looked interesting. Nothing wrong with the P99, but it's had over 10,000 rounds put through it (aka time for fresh meat). I've been carrying my Springfield LS 1911 lately and it's just too much gun to carry.

[Rustpot 1]

Well it sounds like you shoot a good amount. 357Sig also costs more to buy factory loads for and is a more difficult round to reload for since the stepped case is very easy to not get properly formed or headspaced.

Saba, I absolutely love Sig pistols. Put a pair of Hogue rubber grips on them or a nice wood and they are one of the best feeling and weighted pistols in my hands. I was debating getting an M&P before I bought my 229, but I'm still a big fan of the DA/SA trigger setup and as recently as 6 months ago there was very little in the way of action work for the M&P line.

Comparing the trigger pull of the Glock Safe Action system to a Sig's traditional DA/SA setup is apples and oranges. All the Glock's trigger needs to do is fully prime the plunger on the striker mechanism and drop the striker bar. It is, as you said, a very mechanical movement like flipping a switch. Some people love them for that, just drop in a light weight connector and the gun requires very little travel and pressure to fire. The Sig on the other hand has several components that cam off of each other. For the double action pull I think most stock Sigs sit at around 12 pounds and have a small amount of takeup before engaging, then need that long pull which usually has a fair amount of grit and stacking to it.

The Sigs also have a lot of options for the fire control system though. DAO, SAO in some cases, DAK, SRT, and there are lots of people who are capable of polishing and improving the trigger characteristics.

Drew, have you looked at S&W M&P guns? Their compact models fit the hand pretty nicely and come chambered in .40 357Sig and 9mm. I really like those guns, they fit the hand very well and you can now buy a $30 drop in sear that makes the trigger so much better with a shorter, more positive reset and a lighter pull. I shot one in .40 and with the grip extending mags it shot well for me, if not with a bit too much muzzle flip.

[Monty22 832]

I've got a USP .40 compact- great pistol. My only complaint is I find myself carrying my Kel Tec .380 more often due to the HK's weight, especially in the warmer months. The HK has been flawless no matter what fodder I feed it. I'm at 6k for a round count with one stove pipe that was ammo related. As Rustpot mentioned, there are also aftermarket barrels to swap o .357 sig should you so desire. I'm finding it hard to locate holsters as time goes on, so you won't have as many options as if you go with a S&W or Glock.

[epstud74 24]

Why do you want to ditch the Walther? I dont carry a gun around, but if I did, I'd go with my .32acp JP Sauer und Sohn 38H pistol. It was my grandfather's service pistol in WW2. It is a nice pocket automatic that was light years ahead of its time. The SigSauer P230 and P232 are direct descendants of this nifty gun. If the 1911 is too much gun to carry, get a Walther PPK. IMO the best pistole in the Walther line.

[Trooper 8]

Any of the mainstream calibers are sufficient for carry. Check out the H&K, even the compact is fat. I also don't like the mag release on them but for SD and carry, it's not an issue. Quality isn't an issue with H&K, only whether you like it and can shoot it.

[Drewhunz 3]

Why do you want to ditch the Walther? I dont carry a gun around, but if I did, I'd go with my .32acp JP Sauer und Sohn 38H pistol. It was my grandfather's service pistol in WW2. It is a nice pocket automatic that was light years ahead of its time. The SigSauer P230 and P232 are direct descendants of this nifty gun. If the 1911 is too much gun to carry, get a Walther PPK. IMO the best pistole in the Walther line.

I'm aa full lefty, so while the gun fits my hand, the ergonomics and design definately benefit a righty. It has a decocker (1st gen) that can't be utilized shooting lefty. The H&K is fully ambidextrous and feels comfortable. Will be shooting the .357Sig and the .45 later this week, so stay tuned.

[Rustpot 1]

If you're thinking about carrying something like a PPK you might as well get something modern in a 9mm for half the price.

Drew, the .357Sig isn't much different than .40 to shoot. It's a sharp and sudden recoil compared to the flip of the .40 and the soft push of the .45 though.

Looking at the HK site, the USP doesn't come in .357Sig, but the P2000 does. I have not handled that one, but it has an ambi slide catch, which is a plus. I have read good things about it, but I don't generally hear anything bad about HK in general.

On another note; I love shooting at the floor for power factor! My target/competition load was a 165gr .40 that was pushing mid 800 fps and I tested my next batch Sunday. 180gr just over 700fps, should have the other 990 loaded up and ready to start shooting this week. These things are a blast to run, almost no push and just a little flip at the muzzle.

[Drewhunz 3]

Looking at the HK site, the USP doesn't come in .357Sig.

SOP. The .45 is still drawing me in though.

[Rustpot 1]

SOP. The .45 is still drawing me in though.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p247/mo...st/DSC08716.jpg

Doesn't exist on their site, but here is one in the flesh... so to speak.

[skyscrape 5]

Taurus Judge! Three .410 shells loaded with buckshot and two rounds long colt should do the job! At least at close range. If long range is an issue keep a .308 with a twenty inch barrel and a nightforce 3-15x50mm on top for reach out past 800 yards :D

[jrhky36 1]

i carried a usp mk23 mod 0 or a usp compact 45 in the military. the biggest issuses i had with them was the weight. a couple of guys in my platoon carried sigs p226 in .40 and loved them. i was considering switching but we need the ablity to use a silencer. the action on the usp was awsome never ahd a failure of any kind (about 10-12,000 rounds each). they even shot while covered in mud. the mk23 is going to be hard to find and cost you a few bucks and its not something you can carry.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/pistols.asp

hope this helps

[gxc999 7]

A 1911 is way too much to carry. If you like one of the sub-micro glock .45s, decent mag capacity, not really heavy, and not insanely expensive.

[Rustpot 1]

Started getting into the groove for bullseye shooting yesterday for an upcoming match. Swapped my .22 conversion on my Sig and fired ~100 rounds of slow fire and DA practice. Swapped over to the .40 and by the time I started getting tired I was putting 6 shots into a 2" group at 10 yards in around 7 seconds. Wasn't on the zero, but my group was tight and I was well under the 10 second par time. I shoot a ton better on the timer for some reason though. My practice off the timer never got better than 6-8".

The strings I need to work on are;

6 shots 10 seconds 10 yards

12 shots 30 seconds 15 yards kneeling

12 shots 35 seconds 20 yards

X-ring is 4" I believe (B-27 reduced police target).

[Race4LastPlace 31]

Finally got to shoot today. 50 rounds in my S&W .357 revolver (.38 specials) and 100 rounds in my XD 9mm. Hit bullseye 14 times at 21 yards :D definitely need to hit the range more. Hopefully it will warm up a lil here and i can hit the outdoor range and shoot up some appliances. Very pleased with the springfield XD tho. Feels real smooth in my hands, definitely feel like I made the right decision in that purchase.

Also FINALLY found some .380 ammo! Once my Walther PPK gets back from the recall fixing, i'll be shooting that (hopefully working on my CCW)

[sitzlejd 0]

So my roommate ran into some financial trouble and had to sell his S&W 9mm. Now he says he's going to buy a Hi-Point 9mm. I'd never heard of them, but a google search shows they cost $150 new or less?!? These things have to be utter crap, right?

[Monty22 832]

So my roommate ran into some financial trouble and had to sell his S&W 9mm. Now he says he's going to buy a Hi-Point 9mm. I'd never heard of them, but a google search shows they cost $150 new or less?!? These things have to be utter crap, right?

Yes. And extremley bulky to boot. He's better off waiting and trying to find something decent used in the $200 or so range. If it's going to be a carry gun especially. I've never heard anything good said about them. Kel Tec is inexpensive but decent.

[CapsFan 5]

Every once in a while you will find a decent Hi-Point, but they are few and far between. I'm not sure I would bet my life on one.

[Rustpot 1]

Found myself a great condition used Glock 35. I'm probably getting it if the funding works out, then selling my Sig 220 9mm.

I've shot the 34 that a guy uses for his SSP in IDPA and it is just an awesome platform. Light reloads in .40 that my 229 soaks up will be like shooting .22. I am excited. I've really been wanting to move away from my 229 for competition since it's more of a compact and was looking for a 226 to start working with but I just couldn't pass this up for the price.

Hopefully in a week or two it will be be in my hands!

[Race4LastPlace 31]

Went to an outdoor gun range this morning (Knob Creek Gun Range). Was about 25* outside. yikes cold, but i had a real thick jacket on.... But had a great time. Brought several cantaloupes, 2 liter soda bottles and a spaghetti melon (?). Did some work on the soda bottles with my .357 magnum. Tore through the fruit with my SA XD 9mm. Then shot a couple of my friend's guns. By now we were shooting at bowling pins set up in the field... :D

The Range: XD 9mm:

.300 Win Mag: AR15:

[retroXvertigo 4]

Sweet. I just found this thread. Never knew there was a gun thread on this forum.

This is my last purchase. Got it a few months ago.

Sig P220 Elite

I got the .22 conversoin for it a few weeks ago.

That last pic isn't mine. Just an example of how pretty that gun actually is. My camera phone sucks.

I also have a Springfield XDm-9 and my striped lower receiver should be in next week.

[Monty22 832]

^^^ Nice Sig. What brand striped lower did you get? I built an AR with a Stag lower about 5 years ago- the serial # is in the low 500's. What type of configuration are you planning? DSA has a great deal on M-4 uppers- $275 w/o bolt & carrier.

[Rustpot 1]

I do love Sigs, Elites are great guns for sure.

I spoke earlier of buying a Glock and have since come to my senses. I ordered a Sig P226 in .40 on Tuesday to compliment my P229 in .40.