Ringers...

[Machinehead2k5 32]

My team has a problem with the talent level on it. We play in the second highest league available, and have won 2 out of 8 games. Our problem is we have a wide swath of talent. We have a half dozen guys who have played either D1/D3, or at least some junior hockey. Then we've got a few guys who are kind of over their heads. We have probably the most top end talent but get killed just about every game. Is it totally unacceptable if we bring in a few more top end guys for our 2 week promotion into the A league?

Plus if you bring in the "ringers" as a team you won't get better because you'll be deferring to the higher skilled guys. You play against better players, you get better.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

Last half of the season or so all the teams have been bringing in their ringers so they get enough games to be eligible for the playoffs. Kid in the first game had a hat-trick in a 5-3 loss... two goals within 30 seconds of each other on the same shift. Last game of the season their big ringer had 7 goals, and 3 assists. Really, where is the pride in scoring two hat-tricks plus one to grow on in a D-League when you can probably still be dominant or at least a key-member two leagues up?

[Hawkeye 0]

I posted this in the "run up score thread"

Last night we played a team who brought in a AHL player (claims he was just visiting looking for some ice time).

We lost 8-2 the guy had 1 goal and 7 assists.

We scored our two goals when he was off the ice.

[Chadd 916]

While not directly a "ringer" situation, it is somewhat applicable and I didn't want to start a new topic.

I just got an email about our fall league and told the rink I wasn't playing, here's the background:

I'm playing on a lower level team with a bunch of great guys (really, a fantastic bunch of guys) that, on average, don't have the highest skill level in the world. That's ok, because we're just out to have fun and drink beer after the game, none of us are ever going to get paid to play the game and we're ok with that. At the end of the spring/summer season, the first place team has a record of 18-2-0, since then they have gone 3-1 in the playoffs with the penultimate game tomorrow night. A couple weeks ago there was a meeting where, according to the rink, "final team placements for the fall will be determined". The team in question argues that they aren't good enough to move up, everyone tells them to grow a pair and eventually the meeting ends with them being moved up a division. Tonight we get an email that they, and the second place team (16-2-2), are not moving up and will be back in the same division again for the fall.

Obviously, I told the rink secretary that runs the league to go to hell and I wasn't paying nearly $1000 a year for that kind of BS. Hopefully other teams will do the same thing.

[noodle3872 40]

Chadd, that scenario plays out far to frequently. I'm not a great player by any means, but I do love to compete and have fun. We had one team like what you described. They pissed, moaned and threatened to fold when the league moved them up a division for the fall. There's another meeting next week, should be interesting to see if the league holds firm and calls their bluff.

[Chadd 916]

I'm sure they threatened to pull out after the meeting as a number of their guys live very close to another rink that just opened. I'll call their bluff personally, even if everyone else won't.

[freestyla 0]

Just finished my roller season and this one team had their ringers on the roster the whole season but they only played 1-2 games before the final move ups. Once those move ups were done this team (who were 1-6) just ripped every team in the tier to win the championship.

[Law Goalie 147]

It's appropriate that this thread got bumped just as the Beer League Player Positioning Advice: what to do with the weakest player thread was going strong.

If for non-hockey reasons (family, friendship, whatever) you do end up with a 'ringer' on your team, just use the converse of the methods described in that thread: put the ringer on D with a weak to moderate partner, and try to play him in disadvantageous situations, eg. on the penalty kill, with weak forward lines, etc. Make it clear to him that his job is to make the players around him better, not show off how good he is. If once in a while his competitive nature takes over, and he scores a couple at will or rags the puck for three minutes without being so much as touched, fair enough.

Ideally, in a world of pure sportsmanship, a ringer makes your team better by raising the effectiveness of your weaker players. One area in which most high-level players hugely outstrip your average beer league hack is in communication: make it clear that everybody should be listening to the guy at all times for cues, which in turn makes the 'ringer' feel like he's helping with more than the odd snipe, but is really a part of the team. If everyone listens to him, they'll be in better positions making better decisions with better results, and learning how to do it all the while, so they'll feel great too.

The other thing you can do is simply use your guy to mark the other team's ringer(s). Tell him to play Steve Kasper on the other guy, and hang on his back like a dirty shirt, or do his best to neutralise their stacked line.

As far as how to ID ringers on other teams, my advice is to tape the games. Going strictly based on personal PPG is flawed, because (as in a previous example) two guys with 3.8 apiece are doing way more damage than one guy with 4 PPG. If you show the league video showing these two guys absolutely controlling the game in a way that ruins the opportunity for other paying players to enjoy it, the league will be forced to act. If they don't, send the video to the other teams and put a petition together.

Plus, then you'll have game video to howl at with a few beers some evening as a team, which is both highly instructive and damnably amusing.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

I just got an email about our fall league and told the rink I wasn't playing, here's the background:

I'm playing on a lower level team with a bunch of great guys (really, a fantastic bunch of guys) that, on average, don't have the highest skill level in the world. That's ok, because we're just out to have fun and drink beer after the game, none of us are ever going to get paid to play the game and we're ok with that. At the end of the spring/summer season, the first place team has a record of 18-2-0, since then they have gone 3-1 in the playoffs with the penultimate game tomorrow night. A couple weeks ago there was a meeting where, according to the rink, "final team placements for the fall will be determined". The team in question argues that they aren't good enough to move up, everyone tells them to grow a pair and eventually the meeting ends with them being moved up a division. Tonight we get an email that they, and the second place team (16-2-2), are not moving up and will be back in the same division again for the fall.

The first place team in our league went 10-0 in the regular season while scoring 80 goals, and conceding just 33. It is really disheartening going into a game knowing that there is no way in the world your team is coming out of the game with a win.

[Machinehead2k5 32]

My team's last season in MA (Lowest Tier UpperA/MidA/LowA) we went 17-3 and had scored 100+ goals and gave up maybe 30-40. But then went 1-2 in the playoffs and lost the double elimination playoffs.

[hyprlte 0]

Was just eliminated from the playoffs. We have played this team 3 or 4 times this season and they had a completely new line up. They had 2 guys from the SPHL and at least 3 or 4 guys from NCAA.

Since the playoff format is first team to 3 pts, we had to win in regulation (they won the first game). We actually won, but when we had overtime it was 3 on 3. There is no way some of the guys on our team are able to keep up with these guys, and clearly we lost. I don't understand how these guys slipped through the check in booth when walking into the rink. I was thinking of phoning the convener and telling him to get his head out of his ass, but I don't think its worth it.

Gotta love the ASHL.

[Grinder 2]

It's absolutely worth it. Otherwise, the league never recognizes it as a problem.

[althoma1 575]

It's absolutely worth it. Otherwise, the league never recognizes it as a problem.

+1. I can see how they "slipped through". I remember last winter's ASHL playoffs when I was asked for my ID the two people supposed to be checking just said, "OK thanks" and let me sign in when I put my ID down on the table. Neither one of them picked up the ID and actually took a look at it and they didn't even see which name I signed in under. They just continued the conversation they were having before I came in...it definitely wasn't a thorough check. In my case, I was legitimately on the team and signed in under my own name, but I really could've been anyone and they wouldn't have known.

[hyprlte 0]

ASHL knows that these guys are ringers they just don't care. In one case, last winter my buddy who played in the same league and division said one team brought out a ringer... how did he know? The guy was wearing all toronto maple leaf gear!! common - if you're going to bring out a pro hockey player for the playoffs at least have him look like everyone else. Needless to say the convener said nothing and he played in the game.

[nexusrage21 1]

ASHL knows that these guys are ringers they just don't care. In one case, last winter my buddy who played in the same league and division said one team brought out a ringer... how did he know? The guy was wearing all toronto maple leaf gear!! common - if you're going to bring out a pro hockey player for the playoffs at least have him look like everyone else. Needless to say the convener said nothing and he played in the game.

I'm pretty sure unless it was Wendel Clark or Doug Gilmour this doesn't constitute a Ringer for most men's leagues.

[jcp2 2]

I'm pretty sure unless it was Wendel Clark or Doug Gilmour this doesn't constitute a Ringer for most men's leagues.

Ba da boom!

[tareatingrat 4]

Yeah, now that I think about it, I'm in the ASHL and we have player cards...

Our "manager" just collects all the cards and gives them to the timekeeper, but no one has ever actually looked to make sure it was me.

I wear a cage, too, so that's gotta be difficult to tell it's me, especially when the picture on my player card is probably the poorest quality photograph ever taken.

[nexusrage21 1]

I thought about this thread the other day. I heard Boomer Esiason on his radio show basically say that since a team blew his team out right before playoffs, he decided to call in some former pro's and ringers to beat that team in the playoffs. Classy.

I play in the same league, but I've never played against his team.

[Hermans 9]

I play in the ASHL, and for the most part, they do a pretty good job of keeping ringers out of the lower divisions.

During the regular season, unfortunately, anybody can play for any team, although the league manager will probably have a talk with an A division player lighting it up in E.

But, you need to play 33% of your team's regular season games to qualify for playoffs, and then you can only play one division down from your skill level (we've got A, B, C, D, and E).

So if you have a 34 game schedule, you have to play 12 games, which is pretty good in my opinion. Also, if you play in B, you can only drop down to C. So if you have ringers throughout the regular season, you might get a favourable spot in the standings, but then might lose your best scorers when it counts.

The divisions are re-organized probably three times a year (after 8 games, 16, and 24, roughly) to try and create parity. There are different groupings in each division (E1, Group A and Group B, etc). For example, our team was beating everyone quite badly in the bottom division, then we got moved up and lost 9 straight, so they moved us back down. It's not perfect, but way better than some of the league structures I've seen.

My biggest problem is that it requires most people to be honest when registering, as there is a question regarding the highest level of hockey you've played. There are some people in the E division where I play that should not be there at all.

I, too, wonder what a higher caliber player gets from playing in a lower division. I mean, I've only been playing for two years and I'm at the point where I want to move up a division because it's not as challenging as I would like. It's nice to score goals and all, but when you score off of what you know was a bad play or a bad shot, it's kind of hard to cheer when you didn't have to work for it.

Just going through this at ASHL for the first time; will be interesting to see how it works out for us.

Yeah, now that I think about it, I'm in the ASHL and we have player cards...

Our "manager" just collects all the cards and gives them to the timekeeper, but no one has ever actually looked to make sure it was me.

I wear a cage, too, so that's gotta be difficult to tell it's me, especially when the picture on my player card is probably the poorest quality photograph ever taken.

+1 for that comment. My photo looks like a human head, sort of, but not really. It has to be the worst print out of a picture since the 1980's Atari 800 xl or the Commodor Vic 20.

I'm pretty sure unless it was Wendel Clark or Doug Gilmour this doesn't constitute a Ringer for most men's leagues.

In toronto the team that loses would probably still not complain to much. It would be more like "I got to play against Wendel Clark... that's worth it"

[Chadd 916]

Not quite a necro-post, but this is part of an email sent to a guy in one of the lowest divisions at our rink.

Tuesday night was another example of the reason that you do not belong in the Western division. Because of your lack of sportsmanship, and your very obvious ability to skate at a higher level, you are no longer permitted to play in the Western division. You have left me no choice, and this should have been done long ago. I will not continue to jeopardize the league so that you can play and show up the other players in the league.

FYI: He scored six on Tuesday night and three the week before.

[SouthpawTRK 1]

I wish that our local rink would regulate the ringers that are playing in the lower divisions. A couple of games back, the opponent's team had a ringer that scored 5 of the 7 goals.

[Chadd 916]

Using the pointstreak system really makes it easy to see what is happening from a scoring or penalty standpoint. I really like it.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

We played a team in the championship game for our division this past winter season who brought in an AHL/NHL-drafted player who ran train on us, they dress someone else as him during the regular season so he had enough games to qualify for playoffs. I think he had 5 of 7 goals in a 7-4 loss to them. We played them again the first game of spring season and he wasn't there. We won 13-1 or something like that. Then they were talking trash after the game like they won the championship as a team or something.

[mhkehoe 1]

Every league I have been in has had players well above the skill levels and below the skill levels of the division. In my current division, the top two teams are always bringing in one more player at the higher skill range of the division to outdo the other. And both teams already have a couple guys who can control the play when they want to. Even my team has a kid who is above the division's skill level, but he is a friend who fills in for missing players, plays D, and has a pass first mentality the whole time he is out there. For the most part, we sick him on the other team's full time ringers.

Meanwhile, there is another team who is 0-11-1. The team has an anti-ringer, old fellow who refuses to move down despite barely being able to move out on the ice or react to the play. The play essentially becomes a power play situation when he is out there. And because of the losing team they have a hard time fielding even two full lines, leaving the older fellow with a ton of ice time. And every season, all the players ditch his team and he gets new players. This season's crew is particularly bad because they don't have a single fast/young guy in the bunch.

[BenderHockey 127]

We played a team in the championship game for our division this past winter season who brought in an AHL/NHL-drafted player who ran train on us, they dress someone else as him during the regular season so he had enough games to qualify for playoffs. I think he had 5 of 7 goals in a 7-4 loss to them. We played them again the first game of spring season and he wasn't there. We won 13-1 or something like that. Then they were talking trash after the game like they won the championship as a team or something.

Which team was that?