How to determine if skate is too stiff

[flyers10 57]

I'm thinking about getting a 2nd pair of skates. What should you be feeling while trying on in a store to see if a model is too stiff for you? What feeling on ice is a good indicator you need a less stiff boot?

[gxc999 7]

I'm thinking about getting a 2nd pair of skates. What should you be feeling while trying on in a store to see if a model is too stiff for you? What feeling on ice is a good indicator you need a less stiff boot?

If the skate is prohibiting or inhibiting your lateral movement, if you feel pain in the forward stride, etc, are common indicators. Basically, if you really don't notice it, it likely isn't too stiff for you unless you're a beginner.

[xaero604 0]

I find that if you're unable to bend your knees without your heel lifting off the floor, the skate might be too stiff for you. That being said, a lot of the members on this forum (including players like Selanne) like to lace their skates to 2nd eyelet from the top as a means to reap the benefits of the lateral stiffness of their high-end skates while maintaining adequate knee bend.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

If the skate is prohibiting or inhibiting your lateral movement, if you feel pain in the forward stride, etc, are common indicators. Basically, if you really don't notice it, it likely isn't too stiff for you unless you're a beginner.

Another question, what if it's just in the laces? Because, I'm pretty sure that a pair of Rbk 11k's aren't too stiff for me (Play AA and skated since 4 years.) I just really like to tie my top laces really tight. And it doesn't inhibit my lateral movement, however I do notice sometimes just like a bit of stiffness. But good stiffness.

[kovalchuk71 212]

You answered your own question.

[SolarWind 23]

If the skate is prohibiting or inhibiting your lateral movement

was thinking about the exact same issue lately (how to determine if skate is either too stiff or not stiff enough), so could someone please explain how exactly a skate that is too stiff can inhibit a lateral movement? If anything I thought it'd promote it through better support & increased energy transfer?

Also what happens when the skate isn't stiff enough? What are the symptoms?

Thanks!

[Chadd 916]

If you feel like you're walking/skating in ski boots, they're too stiff. Your ankle should bend forward at least a little bit when you walk around the shop/rink in them. You should be able to squat down while wearing them and end up with your knees farther forward than your toes, not just above them.

As for them not being stiff enough: You shouldn't feel the sides give when you turn or drive hard to start skating. Personally, I don't mind a boot that is soft in the ankles as long as there is good stiffness around the foot. If you find that you can't hold a tight turn because the boot is touching the ice and kicking out the blade, you need something stiffer to support your ankle.

[Chadd 916]

If you like to lace all the way up and very tight to restrict your lateral movement to a minimum, then your only choice is to buy a soft boot like 11k and live with it, there isn’t a skate out the market which has good rigid stiffness in the lower part up to about mid ankle bone and then becomes very soft towards the top two or three eyelets. The only skate that has this combo is top of a line figure skate and some speed skating boots.

Graf 707 and derivatives are stiff through the foot and soft in the ankle. They're the only option now that the Mission S/AG series has been tanked.

[SolarWind 23]

If you feel like you're walking/skating in ski boots, they're too stiff. Your ankle should bend forward at least a little bit when you walk around the shop/rink in them. You should be able to squat down while wearing them and end up with your knees farther forward than your toes, not just above them.

Can't this be adjusted through lacing looser or skipping top eyelet if needed?

If you find that you can't hold a tight turn because the boot is touching the ice and kicking out the blade, you need something stiffer to support your ankle.

thanks Chadd - that's a confirmation I was looking for which explains why the outside part of the outsole near the balls of the feet is schreded on my T1s (and was on S15). The skate kind of 'caves in' & scrapes the ice, which never happened with One95.

the quarters in T1 are much thinner then in One95, and you can see how a spot visibly moves when a finger pressure is applied on it... wasn't happening with One95/X60/XXXX - these are tanks!

[Chadd 916]

Can't this be adjusted through lacing looser or skipping top eyelet if needed?

To a degree, but that is also going to mean that your foot is moving within the boot instead of the boot moving with your foot. That makes blisters and lace bite much more likely

thanks Chadd - that's a confirmation I was looking for which explains why the outside part of the outsole near the balls of the feet is schreded on my T1s (and was on S15). The skate kind of 'caves in' & scrapes the ice, which never happened with One95.

the quarters in T1 are much thinner then in One95, and you can see how a spot visibly moves when a finger pressure is applied on it... wasn't happening with One95/X60/XXXX - these are tanks!

If T1 and S15 skates aren't stiff enough, you really need to work on building ankle strength. Anything stiffer is damn near a ski boot.

Another problem I have with all Grafs is that it’s way to aggressive of a boot cut. In my opinion it’s the biggest reason why they are loosing market share very rapidly, besides marketing, and innovation they need to put a persons in more an upright position.

Graf is losing market share for a number of reasons, the cut of the boot isn't anywhere on the list.

[SolarWind 23]

If T1 and S15 skates aren't stiff enough, you really need to work on building ankle strength. Anything stiffer is damn near a ski boot.

the point is taken - I had varous issues (strains, twists etc) with my ankles since childhood so there's always room for improvement

BUT (and it's strictly from my personaly experience) why would you refer to T1 & S15 as 'ski boots' since both boots aren't that stiff at all?

granted - everything depends on a reference point, and mine is now One95 which is like a brick

plus for S15 glue was coming apart separating leather from the composite making things worse

but still in any case T1 is quite flexible! you press on quarters & they give out.

it doesn't happen with One95/X60 etc.

[JJStripes 1]

Graf is losing market share for a number of reasons, the cut of the boot isn't anywhere on the list.

Certainly there are a variety of reasons why they are loosing market share, but the cut of the boot is definitely a deal breaker for some people. I don't think Graf makes a skate cut like any of Bauer's top models.

[skyscrape 5]

Another question, what if it's just in the laces? Because, I'm pretty sure that a pair of Rbk 11k's aren't too stiff for me (Play AA and skated since 4 years.) I just really like to tie my top laces really tight. And it doesn't inhibit my lateral movement, however I do notice sometimes just like a bit of stiffness. But good stiffness.

I have skated in one95's, x60's, and 11k's. I am a big guy 6'7 290 but here is what I can say.

One95's have broken in to be perfect with a modified way of lacing them up, but it is hit or miss if I get it laced just right.

x60's were to shallow by a hair but as far as skating these were the best for me. My crossovers were great, and agility felt a lot better, but I could not get by the fact that they hurt a little which the one95's never have.

11k's felt good when I put them on, walking to the ice I could feel the outsole flexing and the boot giving. When I went to make a quick turn and lay it over I could feel everything give too much for me. That and the stance of the skate put me way back on my heels!

I am hoping that the CL's will be right in the middle of the one95's and x60's. No big deal if not though. I still like my supremes.

[ridiska99 1]

If you like to lace all the way up and very tight to restrict your lateral movement to a minimum, then your only choice is to buy a soft boot like 11k and live with it, there isn't a skate on the market which has good rigid stiffness in the lower part up to about mid ankle bone and then becomes very soft towards the top two or three eyelets. The only skate that has this combo is top of a line figure skate and some speed skating boots. Kor had that design, but the lower part was way too stiff to flex and they never engineered it far enough, maybe MLX has that balance.

On a stiff skate like T1 or X60 if you try skipping eyelets in order to change the flex point you loose lateral stability, and if you lace all of them you will not have enough forward flex as you would with 11k nor will you have enough support up top to restrict your lateral movement – it's too stiff in all the wrong places. The only skate besides 11k that might work is the old Easton synergy 1100 if you can find it, but I haven't skated in 11k to give you exact analysis which skate is sifter in the lower part of the boot. What I would suggest is a cheap experiment, try taping your boot with clear tape in the upper mid section right where the top portion of the ankle bone begins and all the way to the top of the boot edge. Look up pictures of D.Boyle, D. Keith, J. Roenick, B, Cambell on Getty Images to understand the exact technique.

Now mind you each wrap significantly changes your forward flex, so you have to find the balance of how many warps work for you. Location of the wrap is also critical so with each wrap you should go up like you're taping your stick blade so you spread out the forward flex evenly. With this technique your skating will improve in all areas, but you might break down the boot a lot faster in the lower portion. The only thing you might need to change with this technique is the radius, because of ankle restriction and much better push off you will no longer need a large radius so something like 8.5 foot might work well. I would like to point out that this technique only works on soft boots which have very good forward flex, so people with T1, X60 will have a problem unless you're 225 lb person who has extreme push off strength. That's why you see all those guys still skating in old discontinued models.

Cheers.

I'm sure u know this but u should also add graf 707/g7 , to the 11k and Easton list, prob best skate out there with most lateral movement freedom.

check em out

[MyBoxersSayJoe 134]

Personally, I was happy with the forward pitch and aggressive cut of the X60's because I was coming from Graf 703's. Similar cut, but the X60's are a whole lot stiffer than older Graf 703's. I find myself lacing down and eyelet, but wrapping the laces around the ankle/tendon guard and then tying the bow.

[DolomaticDangles 13]

the point is taken - I had varous issues (strains, twists etc) with my ankles since childhood so there's always room for improvement

BUT (and it's strictly from my personaly experience) why would you refer to T1 & S15 as 'ski boots' since both boots aren't that stiff at all?

granted - everything depends on a reference point, and mine is now One95 which is like a brick

plus for S15 glue was coming apart separating leather from the composite making things worse

but still in any case T1 is quite flexible! you press on quarters & they give out.

it doesn't happen with One95/X60 etc.

They are both top of the line skates, TotalOnes are one of the stiffest skates you can buy (if not the stiffest)

[SolarWind 23]

They are both top of the line skates, TotalOnes are one of the stiffest skates you can buy (if not the stiffest)

to each his own, I've skated in both & was speaking strictly from my own personal experience and in my opinion XXXX & One95 are substantially stiffer then both S15 & T1s.

BTW just because a skate is a 'top of the line' it doesn't automatically mean a heck of a lot in terms of stiffness since there's great variance between manufacturers & even between different model years in the same skate line. This was discussed quite extensively here, but case to point RBK 11K isn’t very stiff when comparing to Bauers, and X60 isn’t as stiff as XXXX. So coincidentally there appears to be a trend that skates might be getting ‘softer’ in the recent years, so I don’t really see why it’s so hard to accept that T1 isn’t as still as One95?

just out of curiosity - from all the skates mentioned here which ones have you skated in & use as a reference point?

[IniNew 53]

Bringing a topic back from the dead: I'm in a pretty desperate search for some skates that have the perfect mix of stiffness for me. Right now in S17's (a pretty stiff boot) I'm getting some pretty serious lace bite after reffing a few games. I believe I need a softer boot in order to get more forward flex and less of the rubbing that's going on now. However, the lateral stiffness through tight turns is ideal when I leave the top eyelet undone. I'm reading here that the 11k is a softer boot, but how much softer?

[kenneth 5]

Graf 707 and derivatives are stiff through the foot and soft in the ankle. They're the only option now that the Mission S/AG series has been tanked.

i found the graf g75 to be a stiff lower and softer upper but i'm coming from s17s so anything might be softer upper lol

[iniesta 0]

I went from the S17 to the Totalone. I leave the top eyelet undone on both. I find that the eyelet pattern on the S17 is what caused my problems. It’s hard to think the Totalone would be any better, but the forward flex on the Totalone is unbelievable when you leave the top eyelet undone, while providing better lateral support than the S17.

[kenneth 5]

If you like to lace all the way up and very tight to restrict your lateral movement to a minimum, then your only choice is to buy a soft boot like 11k and live with it, there isn't a skate on the market which has good rigid stiffness in the lower part up to about mid ankle bone and then becomes very soft towards the top two or three eyelets. The only skate that has this combo is top of a line figure skate and some speed skating boots. Kor had that design, but the lower part was way too stiff to flex and they never engineered it far enough, maybe MLX has that balance.

On a stiff skate like T1 or X60 if you try skipping eyelets in order to change the flex point you loose lateral stability, and if you lace all of them you will not have enough forward flex as you would with 11k nor will you have enough support up top to restrict your lateral movement – it's too stiff in all the wrong places. The only skate besides 11k that might work is the old Easton synergy 1100 if you can find it, but I haven't skated in 11k to give you exact analysis which skate is sifter in the lower part of the boot. What I would suggest is a cheap experiment, try taping your boot with clear tape in the upper mid section right where the top portion of the ankle bone begins and all the way to the top of the boot edge. Look up pictures of D.Boyle, D. Keith, J. Roenick, B, Cambell on Getty Images to understand the exact technique.

Now mind you each wrap significantly changes your forward flex, so you have to find the balance of how many warps work for you. Location of the wrap is also critical so with each wrap you should go up like you're taping your stick blade so you spread out the forward flex evenly. With this technique your skating will improve in all areas, but you might break down the boot a lot faster in the lower portion. The only thing you might need to change with this technique is the radius, because of ankle restriction and much better push off you will no longer need a large radius so something like 8.5 foot might work well. I would like to point out that this technique only works on soft boots which have very good forward flex, so people with T1, X60 will have a problem unless you're 225 lb person who has extreme push off strength. That's why you see all those guys still skating in old discontinued models.

Cheers.

is this basically what your talking about Rubo? How tight would your laces have to be in the first place?

http://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/tomas-plekanec-of-czech-republic-fights-for-the-puck-with-news-photo/113844450

[skyscrape 5]

I went from the S17 to the Totalone. I leave the top eyelet undone on both. I find that the eyelet pattern on the S17 is what caused my problems. It’s hard to think the Totalone would be any better, but the forward flex on the Totalone is unbelievable when you leave the top eyelet undone, while providing better lateral support than the S17.

I find the same situation with my APX. I leave the top eyelet undone which allows perfect heel lock and great forward flex. It is a completely different story when I lace them all the way up.

[romdj 26]

I went from the S17 to the Totalone. I leave the top eyelet undone on both. I find that the eyelet pattern on the S17 is what caused my problems. It’s hard to think the Totalone would be any better, but the forward flex on the Totalone is unbelievable when you leave the top eyelet undone, while providing better lateral support than the S17.

I find the same situation with my APX. I leave the top eyelet undone which allows perfect heel lock and great forward flex. It is a completely different story when I lace them all the way up.

I liked the heel lock on my s17, but I've had some vapor x40 and my heels aren't locked in at all, whether I lace all the way up, or leave1 or 2 eyelets, would you recommend me going over to the supreme line?

[t6lock 24]

is stiffness purely preference? or does it involve calculations of ability/weight/strength etc........ or is it both?

[Chadd 916]

is stiffness purely preference? or does it involve calculations of ability/weight/strength etc........ or is it both?

Entirely preference.