Experienced beer leaguers, please weigh in...

[nystromshairstylist 14]

(Cross-posted to HF Boards)

Okay, so we finished the season tonight at 1-5, and since everyone makes the playoffs, have that to look forward to. This last game was close all the way, but a number of things occurred that given my lack of experience, I could use some insights from those playing longer.

Keep in mind this is a 4-on-4 non-checking summer beer league with beginners mixed in with d1 as there wasn't enough players to split into divisions. Further, my team was the one team mostly made up of beginners where the other 3 teams in the league were all friends playing together; mostly much better, more experienced players.

Here are the situations I could use some help on:

1) I was in my defensive zone in the right corner (my team's goalie was to my left) and I sent the puck back along the boards behind our goalie into the other corner, so the play was on the other side of the rink. After I sent the puck along the back boards, a player on the other team came at me and with both hands just shoved me over backwards. After getting up I asked the ref if he saw it and he said "yes", but said it was "just hockey." Should that have been called a penalty?

2) The other team was playing very physical - cross-checked our team's one girl player twice, and was hooting and hollering often after scoring, especially after one of their better players dangled through like 3 of us beginners on a breakaway. I finally got very frustrated at their nonsense, and starting pushing people back, especially around the net. So the same player who shoved my took a punch at my face - but since i wear a cage, it just bounced off.

The ref was basically useless, having called one penalty all game - against us at the end, of course - and I nearly came to blows with this other player. Mind you, I'm the second or third worst player on our team, so if i got booted it would not have really mattered, but i was very close to dropping my gloves and literally beating this other player to death.

I've played organized sports decades ago, and know not to lose my head during a game, but between the chirping after a goal, physical play - esp against our girl teammate - and their taking of liberties pushing and shoving my teammates - without the ref calling anything, i just lost it and warned the other team and that one player there will be a fight if the BS continues.

The rest of my team being noobs like me - save for 2 players, who are finesse players anyway - so there is no one out there to protect us. The other 2 teams in the league get this, and have the class and sense not to play like dicks, sometimes even backing off when they see us newer players carrying the puck up ice and just waiting for us to flub the puck on our own.

Was I out of line, or is that kind of physical play acceptable in a beer league? Because if it is, then the open hockey sessions and adult beginner clinics I've been in over the past 3 months have not even come close to the physical play and BS that goes on during the game. Since the other 2 teams didn't play like that, I felt this was an anomaly...

[IniNew 53]

Each ref is different; each ref dictates the way the game is going to be played. I have the luxury in my league of seeing the same refs every week and it really helps with the play. Everyone knows what is and isn't going to fly. Unfortunately, if a ref does let stuff like that go, whether it be as bad as described or not, the only thing you can do is retaliate (not recommended, usually makes things worse :) ), finish the game and file a complaint, or just forget about it and play the next one.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

I don't think your out of line - I always just play the game and let others dictate the physical side - if they want to get chippy then I warn them happens again then I lose my mind and push back but never play dirty, I would rather drop the mitts and swing then slue foot someone behind the play. Refs can't see everything or plain and simple put the whistle away and let us fight it out, they get paid the same amount for blowing the whistle or just dropping the puck. Some players think men's league is the Stanley Cup and check, cross-check, yell and carry on after a goal, come out on the ice to fight. Had one last week played as dirty as can be - had 3 penalties before the 3rd period wanted to lay this guy out - no room for goons in men's league - just let it go if you can, but I know when my team plays him again next month the first penalty he takes - I'm going to put him in his place - 3rd row in the stands!

[silverclrk 0]

You also need to understand it is a non checking league not a non contact league. Some pushing and shoving will always be allowed. Hip checks and body checks should be called everytime. Most of the time in my experience the house refs will usuallly let a rough game get out of hand. They should make these calls at the start of the game and not at the end when everyone is out looking for blood. This is usually when someone gets hurt or a stick gets broken.

[BlackIce 1]

Dude you were not out of line. I believe that cross-checking should not be tolerated. The refs in your game obviously sucked. When the refs just put their whistles away that's when someone gets hurt. Not that you want to retaliate or anything like that but if you play them again your team needs to play a little tougher as no one wants to be roughed up.

[gerbe3:16 19]

Ahhhhhhhh. Good topic. Just had a game last week against some scumbags and some clueless refs were presiding over the proceedings. I'm still messed up from getting bodyslammed to the ice by some 6'4" ringer that didn't even get a penalty for that ridiculousness.

At some point, if the refs do not want to take care of business and earn their pay, you gotta back yourself up and draw the line. If you play in these leagues and see these teams often, it's important to let them know what will not fly in the upcoming games against them.

My problem is, I'm not terribly good by any means, playing in a league a few steps above where I should be... I get by. But when push comes to shove these guys can handle themselves and unless my teammates get my back (they didn't this time) I get bundled if I need to try to stand up for myself.

I'll also recommend getting a friendly rapport with the refs and giving them a heads-up on when they need to keep an eye on things. If you tell them things are about to get out of hand, the minors start coming and the game usually goes better after that. Or they could be dicks and just yell at you like they did to my team this week...

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

Non contact hockey does not exist. Non checking does but some guys are a-holes and house league heroes and take "liberties." I haven't seen too many refs properly police a game and I've been playing men's league close to ten years. Sometimes you and your teammates have to stand up for yourselves. I'm an adult professional with kids but I've gotten into fights on the ice. I won't let someone take liberties with me or my teammates without a response. I won't start it but I am willing to play my role and answer it. That's just the way it is.

[sickwilly 37]

Lots of great suggestions/opinions so far.

It doesn't seem to me that you were out of line. It's unfortunate that there always seems to be at least one team made out of assholes who are taking things too seriously, trying to show up people who don't need to be shown up, or whooping it up excessively. In my experience, I've seen this kind of stuff happen most often with younger teams in a league with a mix of older/adult players. (That's not to say that most younger guys don't "get it" and play respectfully.)

I think that sometimes you have to draw the line in hockey. That can mean the occasional scrap if you can't let it go. A couple of things that I might caution you about. If you fight one guy, you might wind up figting a bunch or getting "pile jumped"... especially if you're giving the prick what he deserves. I'd try to ignore the chirping/whooping it up that they'll probably do.

It might also work to go and have a couple of guys talk to the other team before the next game.... Letting them know that you guys have a bunch of new players (and might be playing in a lower league if it were allowed), and don't expect to beat them.... and that you just want to go out, have some fun and play a little hockey. They might feel a little less like they have to go out and "show you" that they're better/bigger/stronger. If these guys are that ignorant (and it sounds as though they may be), it may not work, or even backfire. I do find that some of those types of guys are easier to talk to before a game than once the "competition" starts.

I wouldn't recommend the following approach to your situation (better skaters will have a big advantage with rough stuff in most cases). Something similar happened to one of my summer teams a while ago. We were playing against a bunch of jerkoffs that were home from college. One of them tried to take out one of our guys' knees from behind (he was later banned from the rink for the incident. Later in the game, one of our D-men, who was approaching 50 at the time, stepped up and levelled (with what would have been a clean hit in contact hockey). The kid dropped like a rock and was done for the season (shoulder?). Right in front of the ref. I'm not sure, but I think the ref might not even have called a penalty, because those guys were being such asses. The BS stopped, and we beat 'em. It was awesome. Normally I wouldn't advocate for that kind of stuff in beer league, but this kid was clearly just out to try to hurt people.

[doodman 0]

One of the things to keep in mind is the referee is there to PROTECT the players. SO many penalties are there because of the potential for injury: charging, boarding, roughing, high sticking, etc.

It's beer league...I don't get paid the big bucks to get run or hammered by some douche who's girlfriend broke up with him before the game.

I usually don't start anything, but I'll play the way the opposition is playing. i.e. if I get cross checked, I'll start doing it, If I get slashed, it's OK for me to slash. I guess sportsmanship is not my thing lol.

One thing you might try is video a game and show the league manager. You can show them two things: how mismatched the league is and how bad their refs suck. IF they're hurting for players/teams and you threaten to quit the league they might clean things up abit.

[Fisticuffs 0]

Well, it sounds like the first problem you have, is the officials looked at the game and said "this is a playoff game, we should let them play." That's the wrong approach for a beer league game, or really any game. The standard of play is what it is, and it needs to be applied consistently, whether the teams like it or not. I called a guy for a boarding major with about 10 minutes left in a non-check playoff game. He complained about the call saying "how can you make that call right now?" My response, which I've given on numerous occasions, is "how can you take that penalty right now?" My job is to call the penalties that occur, not to water down my calls to keep the game close.

I hate seeing guys who feel take beer league too seriously. I'm one of the better skaters on my team, and play in a division or two below what I probably should (so I can play with some friends, some of which are pretty new to the game). If a weaker skater from another team is coming down on a 1 on 1 on me, I'm not going to make an easy pokecheck and take the puck away from him, I'm going to give him some room to skate the puck in, and try and make a play. To me, just taking the puck away from a less skilled player would be poor sportsmanship, and is inconsistent with the purpose of beer league hockey, which is to have fun, and enjoy the game. I get no joy from taking the puck away from a poor skater, whereas he gains confidence and grows as a skater when he has the opportunity to skate and move with the puck in the offensive zone.

That said, I have no problem putting a guy in his place when he gets out of hand. If the officials aren't going to protect your teammates, sometimes you have to do it yourself. I find the best way is usually to skate up to a player after the whistle when he's just done something stupid, and give him a little talk like "dude chill the F out, its freaking beer league, we all need to go to work tomorrow." If that doesn't work, I usually cross check the hell out of him... usually behind the play.

[chippa13 1844]

You also need to understand it is a non checking league not a non contact league. Some pushing and shoving will always be allowed. Hip checks and body checks should be called everytime. Most of the time in my experience the house refs will usuallly let a rough game get out of hand. They should make these calls at the start of the game and not at the end when everyone is out looking for blood. This is usually when someone gets hurt or a stick gets broken.

Pushing and shoving is fine in front of the net and in battles for the puck in the corners and along the boards but nobody should be sent arse over teakettle after rimming the puck around his net.

[Brian Harte 1]

Sounds like typical D-head players... probably friends with the refs too. Hooting and hollering after goals. Cheap shots when they don't get their way. Cheap shots even when they're winning.

I think if it were me in your position, I'd give them back exactly what they dish out. If some dude is gonna do cheap crap on the rink and the ref isn't going to do anything about it, then it's in your own hands at that point. I don't like playing that way, but sometimes it needs to be done.

Or, another thing to do, which I did towards the end of last season was this.

Some dude on the other team was throwing cheapshots behind me at the ref. I skated by the ref after that and told him he better watch #(whatever it was) because he is throwing elbows and knees behind the play and if he does it again to me I'm taking care of it.

[RadioGaGa 162]

We've had some shitty calls in our league this summer. And, stick penalties are 4:00....so the horseshit slash on my buddy last night cost us the game (they scored on each of the 2:00 PP's). The other team runs interference, holds, hooks, no calls. We get nailed for the slightest thing. There seems to be only 4 guys rotating thru the zebra ranks. 2 of them suck. 1 is decent, and the 'old guy' is fantastic.

Damn frustrating.

[Chadd 916]

Not much you can do in those situations. If the refs aren't going to call anything, I start giving back to the other guys as much as I can. My logic is simply that if the refs aren't going to punish them for their actions, I will. I do not advocate this approach at all. It usually doesn't end up going well for anyone. I would just prefer the idiots focus on someone that can hold their own and leave my other guys alone.

[nexusrage21 1]

We played a tough game last night. We were down early, tied it up, they scored, tied it up, they scored a few, tied it up again and then never looked back scoring like 6 goals in the last 10 mins. The whole game a couple of guys had been playing a bit more physical than you'd want from a beer league game, but nothing to get really mad about.

Well, with about a minute left, one of their guys speared our center and came in and hit me into the boards hard. I stayed on my feet and face washed him a little before pushing the puck up to a teammate who went on and scored.

The same guy then decides he gonna talk smack in the handshake line like a tough guy about how he'll see us next time. Outside of my facewash, there really wasn't anything physical from our team to be mad about. We celebrated the goals when we were down, and the ones that extended the lead up to two goals, but not overdoing it, and we didn't really celebrate the put away goals. It seems to me that this was purely a case of a guy who couldn't deal with losing.

I think the key is to just ignore it as best you can. Protect yourself/teammates if you have to, but try not to let it escalate.

[Kevin 5]

Uneven teams and wide variations in skill inevitably lead to trouble.

Keep in mind this is a 4-on-4 non-checking summer beer league with beginners mixed in with d1 as there wasn't enough players to split into divisions. Further, my team was the one team mostly made up of beginners where the other 3 teams in the league were all friends playing together; mostly much better, more experienced players.

[Chadd 916]

Uneven teams and wide variations in skill inevitably lead to trouble.

Every time.

[uclahockey707 1]

In reference to the original post, I've seen this crap this year too. I ref some of the beginner leagues at my home rink and a couple of the teams are full of guys that hit girls and celebrate like they've won the stanley cup after each goal, dancing around and screaming like high school chicks. Some people are just jackasses, and I don't think it was out of line at all that you tried to stand up for you and your team.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Doesn't sound like you were out of line at all, but it is a common problem in Mens League. Too much variance between skill levels, Refs who want to avoid issues, and a difference in principles (age of players?) doesn't help either. I left one league a few years ago because it was past the point of being unsafe. In those situations, you want to protect your players and yourself as much as possible. It's frustrating at the time, but there are bigger things at stake than your 1-5 record. I find the lower levels have this an awful lot, not that it doesn't happen in the A/B leagues, but it's less frequent. When you have a mixture of skills the more experienced players tend to get away with alot of moves and it frustrates them when things aren't going there way. Knowing the other player may not be as strong on their skates, they think they can push them around a bit. Worst part of Mens league in my opinion.

[flyers10 57]

Given how it seems to be the same for C or D league everywhere, would trying to play in a B league and probably being one of the least skilled players there be a bad idea? It seems from past experience that when playing around more higher level players that there is more strategy and positioning used and more team passing as well besides less crap going on.

[JBarrera 0]

It'll depend on what team you play in and their patience with lower skilled players. I've seen my buddy play in a higher division and never get a touch of the puck throughout the whole game. There were some instances where his teammates took his shift away from him. You don't want to get stuck in a team full of weekend warriors thinking that scouts are watching.

[Scoobersti 0]

I don't think you were out of line, as long as you aren't making death threats or anything like that. Telling them that there is going to be trouble if they don't stop their BS is within reason.

[zachary 2]

Ah yes the Beer League heroes! Run across a few of those when I played last summer. I had a guy who was about 6'3" to my 5'10" tell me to drop the mitts with him. Mind you a buddy of mine had him as a coach and said he played in Finland and was a 4th line brawler. I told him to go back to Finland and scrub it up because he is nothing out here and he got considerably pissed. Another instance was some kid probably about 17(i was 19 at the time) was being real chippy and thought he was a boss out there. Needless to say he caught a pass with his head down and i dropped the shoulder on him, totally worth a 2 min. When the refs don't do their job someone has to take care of it. People may end up getting hurt but that's what happens.

[n3ss 0]

Ah yes the Beer League heroes! Run across a few of those when I played last summer. I had a guy who was about 6'3" to my 5'10" tell me to drop the mitts with him. Mind you a buddy of mine had him as a coach and said he played in Finland and was a 4th line brawler. I told him to go back to Finland and scrub it up because he is nothing out here and he got considerably pissed. Another instance was some kid probably about 17(i was 19 at the time) was being real chippy and thought he was a boss out there. Needless to say he caught a pass with his head down and i dropped the shoulder on him, totally worth a 2 min. When the refs don't do their job someone has to take care of it. People may end up getting hurt but that's what happens.

... nothing says "beer league hero" like douching it up with dirty hits (hits period) and pretending you'll be playing pro next year. (unless of course, you played pro last year, i guess that'd be alright)

[IniNew 53]

Ah yes the Beer League heroes! Run across a few of those when I played last summer. I had a guy who was about 6'3" to my 5'10" tell me to drop the mitts with him. Mind you a buddy of mine had him as a coach and said he played in Finland and was a 4th line brawler. I told him to go back to Finland and scrub it up because he is nothing out here and he got considerably pissed. Another instance was some kid probably about 17(i was 19 at the time) was being real chippy and thought he was a boss out there. Needless to say he caught a pass with his head down and i dropped the shoulder on him, totally worth a 2 min. When the refs don't do their job someone has to take care of it. People may end up getting hurt but that's what happens.