Whats with Canadian vs US price gap

[wrangler 157]

I personally wonder if the situation is slowly improving since it appears that the gap is closing?

I used to buy from the US in the past, but looking at my recent purchases:

2011 youth Dolo: $59 from Monkey, I got it for $60 @ cyclone taylor

skates vapor X20 youth are 79 down south, but ~90 here - given the free sharpening, warrantly + heat molding makes it a comparable if not a better deal

even for the top of the line stuff: TotalOnes are 899 list in Canada (799 in the US), but you can always get a pretty good discount on these if you ask, and again given the other goodies (starpening, molding etc) it makes it a comparable buy

Not to mention it's much more pleasant to buy local where you can feel the stuff, try it on etc versus shipping & picking it up from the US.

TotalOne skates in the U.S. for $800 will also get you baking and sharpening. I'm not sure why you would think that's extra here. And some retailers have discount programs, too.

[t6lock 24]

thanks everyone this thread has been awesome so far :)

[Larry54 243]

I used the numbers as an example only, as stated in my post.

I think what we're seeing here is what the internet has done. I think the manufacturers, at the start of the 2000s, when the currency exchange was $1USD = $1.40CDN+, got smart and started changing the price lists to be separate, instead of having one price list for both countries in their respective currencies.

Having been involved in numerous pricing meetings with regards to hockey equipment, I've heard the phrase "price at what the market will bear" many times. Hate to say it, but, it holds true. If you Canadian's have a problem paying $300+ for a stick, stop buying it. Same goes for buyers anywhere. That is the only way the manufacturers will change their ways.

Thanks for adding some insight. That's all I needed to hear.

[SolarWind 23]

TotalOne skates in the U.S. for $800 will also get you baking and sharpening. I'm not sure why you would think that's extra here. And some retailers have discount programs, too.

I should have been more clear:

of course if you buy in person the experience is the same, but since the thread was about Canadians buying in the US I assumed buying online & shipping over vs. driving to a store which isn't even an option for anyone on the west coast where I am (to my knowledge there're no good stores close)

[HockeySavants 5]

Imagine is products were still made in Canada and not China?

[tareatingrat 4]

I personally wonder if the situation is slowly improving since it appears that the gap is closing?

I have noticed that since Pro Hockey Life came to Winnipeg, the prices at the other retailers seem to be improving, in terms of sales, anyway. The smaller shops tend to actually clear out their merchandise. I've never seen a 50% off sale before on sticks, and they've had a couple on Warrior merchandise over the last year.

I saw S19's for $229.99. That's Canadian. That's exactly what I bought my S19 for in the 'States and what it still seems to be on some sites. If they had my flex and curve, I would have had a fight with my g/f about why I needed another one.

The Widow, however, is priced at $299.99 now. $229.99 USD.

I simply won't buy high end sticks in Canada anymore. I live close enough to border cities that I can buy a stick and have a nice little weekend vacation in the 'States for the same price I'd pay up here.

Whatever the reason, and I'm sure it's a combination of things, it just doesn't matter. That big of a price difference is wrong.

[sogaduch 0]

Because Canadian retailers have to pay more to get it. They can't afford to compete with the US based dealers and websites. This conspiracy theory stuff is the reason all the other topics on this have been shut down, let's not have it happen again.

I don't think they will fully understand that Canada manufacturers pay a higher import tax rate on top of the cost of that product which they in turn need to make a profit on when selling to a retailer. Let's go grab a beer or two maybe invite JR along and maybe by the time we get back this thread will be gone.

[Ron 0]

I'm not sure how the distribution chain works with regards to hockey gear, but based on my fairly extensive history in the bicycling industry, the biggest disparity between US and Canadian MSRP is from the distribution level, the distributors/aka middlemen if you will who buy the gear from the manufacturers and sell it to the retailers to sell to the end consumer.

At the end of the day, it comes down to buying power and purchasing volumes. As previously mentioned, Canada is huge geographically but very small population wise compared to the US. When the population of an entire country is roughly the same as that of the state of California, the overall demand for equipment is actually quite small. When an American distributor, or even web-giant retailer, approaches Bauer and orders 20,000 sticks to stock their stores and warehouses across the whole country, you can bet Bauer will sell them 20,000 sticks significantly cheaper per unit than a Canadian distributor who may order only 2,000 sticks at a time. If US mega-retailers can purchase direct from manufacturers due to their buying power and volume (they buy for cheaper, have no middleman distributor so they can sell cheaper to the consumer AND maintain higher profit margins than a traditional mfr-distr-retail model), Canadian (and smaller US) retailers have zero chance of competing because they have to go through an extra level of distribution to bring their gear in to sell, and the distributor is not offering the service for free. This is why many brands will not permit their gear to be sold to Canadian consumers when purchased through US retailers--it is meant to protect not only the Canadian retailers but also the Canadian distributors. So basically it boils down to what Chadd mentioned above, Canadian retailers have to sell their gear for more, because it costs them more to bring it in.

This is not factual btw, just how I think/assume the hockey industry would operate based on the cycling industry. In some cases, Canadian distributors of certain cycling products have to purchase from the US distributor as the manufacturer would not sell to distributor direct, and this obviously shoots MSRP right up as Canadian distributors and US retailers buy the product for the same cost, while the end Canadian retailer would have to sell at 30-40% more than what the US retailer can sell for to recoup costs and turn a decent profit thanks to this extra step in the distribution chain.

I'm sure what the market is willing to pay for a certain product is going to affect it as well; if Canadians have no issues paying $250 for a top-end stick, why would the retailer/distributor/manufacturer do you any favours and drop the price of the product and take a hit on their own profits? But the exact same thing is happening in the US, top end products are priced at the top end of what the market is willing to pay. Nobody is pointing a gun to your head forcing you to spend $300 on a hockey stick. It is a free market, and all too often consumers get caught up in the marketting (and the marketting guys do a fantastic job of creating a need to the consumer) and forget that they possess the most important weapon -- their own money.

[raganblink 82]

Ron, might want to put that "this is not factual btw" when you start that big paragraph... Was ready to tell you that nearly all hockey retailers go directly thru the company, and that they are the middlemen between the company and the consumer.

RCSports, which deals with inline equipment is such said of a middlmen.

If you do not have a Tour contract but want to carry some inline gear, you have to go thru them. By the time of RC cost, shipping, and then retail cost which needs to be somewhat in the ballpark of online, you're making 10-15%. Truly a ripoff for the retailer.

[Ron 0]

I was not aware there is virtually no distribution network in the hockey industry, that is surprising for something as large as it is.

While what I wrote about distribution networks may not apply, everything else about purchasing power still does (or at least I would think so?).

I work in the retail end of the medical industry and we deal direct with the manufacturer also in this one situation. The mfr sells directly to hospitals, and also to me for consumers to purchase from. Hospitals here do not care about mark-ups/profit margins/profitabiliy of product, so they provide the product to the patient at their wholesale cost (with larger booking discount even). We provide the same product but obviously have to mark it up to sell to the consumer. Doctors, especially the ones in the hospital, will not refer patients to us despite our greater level of expertise and service because they know that the patient can get it significantly cheaper from the hospital. I voiced my concern with this to the rep, and used my cycling industry experience explaining that the uneven playing field is screwing me over and suggested that she either get the hospital to stick with the MSRP or else stop selling to the hospital as a repercussion. She just laughed at me, since the hospital buys probably 10 times the product I do from her, and if she loses my account it really is a drop in the bucket to her; but in no way is she willing to jeopardize her real business, nor do I expect her to.

In a way, a well defined and established distribution network can and will work well to even the playing field as long as all the mfr's are on board. But once again, the distributors will not work for free and either the retailer will pay the price at the end of the day, or the consumer will.

[raganblink 82]

For the smaller LHS (the ones who get literally none, or are at the bottom of that discount% for companies) it would be highly beneficial short term IMO if they banded together to form a buy co-op. Example, store A, B, C, D, and E each order 15K from company X. From company X they offer 1% discount at that pricing, so each of them would get 1% off their product. If they all worked together though to book from the same company, they would have a booking order of 90K, and lets say company X gave a 7% discount at that level. Each company would end up saving 1050 off booking, instead of 150. Savings of 900 dollars, which they could use to towards rent, or bonus pay to owner, or put it in a reserve fund for rainy day. Whatever.

But long-term its a horrible idea, because if they were to become bigger, and ended up booking alone 50K by themselves, they wouldn't have that previous good-standing terms with company X.

[DarkStar50 679]

At the end of the day, it comes down to buying power and purchasing volumes. As previously mentioned, Canada is huge geographically but very small population wise compared to the US. When the population of an entire country is roughly the same as that of the state of California, the overall demand for equipment is actually quite small. When an American distributor, or even web-giant retailer, approaches Bauer and orders 20,000 sticks to stock their stores and warehouses across the whole country, you can bet Bauer will sell them 20,000 sticks significantly cheaper per unit than a Canadian distributor who may order only 2,000 sticks at a time. If US mega-retailers can purchase direct from manufacturers due to their buying power and volume (they buy for cheaper, have no middleman distributor so they can sell cheaper to the consumer AND maintain higher profit margins than a traditional mfr-distr-retail model), Canadian (and smaller US) retailers have zero chance of competing because they have to go through an extra level of distribution to bring their gear in to sell, and the distributor is not offering the service for free. This is why many brands will not permit their gear to be sold to Canadian consumers when purchased through US retailers--it is meant to protect not only the Canadian retailers but also the Canadian distributors. So basically it boils down to what Chadd mentioned above, Canadian retailers have to sell their gear for more, because it costs them more to bring it in.

There are a lot of good ideas in your post. This one point though, got me to thinking so I found some numbers. In Canada there are 574,125 registered hockey players(men, women, children)= 1.76% of the population. In the US, there are 485,018 registered players = 0.16% of the population. So, actually there is more demand in Canada than the US since they have more players. Geographic size is not relative at all. I will say, as a hockey equipment buyer for a shop for over 30 years, that volume $ purchasing power is everything to the mega online US sellers. They will eventually destroy the smaller LHS in the US. The playing field is not level at all and will continue to favor them. As for the Canadians, maybe the higher expense in gear is offset by the cheap price of ice rentals at the rink. In the US, hourly ice time is extremely expensive while in Canada, ice can be rented for a lot less. Before the Torontonians go crazy, I do know that ice in GTA is still at a premium price. So, while it costs more to gear up Canadians, once they have their gear it is less expensive to get on the ice.

[sogaduch 0]

There are a lot of good ideas in your post. This one point though, got me to thinking so I found some numbers. In Canada there are 574,125 registered hockey players(men, women, children)= 1.76% of the population. In the US, there are 485,018 registered players = 0.16% of the population. So, actually there is more demand in Canada than the US since they have more players. Geographic size is not relative at all. I will say, as a hockey equipment buyer for a shop for over 30 years, that volume $ purchasing power is everything to the mega online US sellers. They will eventually destroy the smaller LHS in the US. The playing field is not level at all and will continue to favor them. As for the Canadians, maybe the higher expense in gear is offset by the cheap price of ice rentals at the rink. In the US, hourly ice time is extremely expensive while in Canada, ice can be rented for a lot less. Before the Torontonians go crazy, I do know that ice in GTA is still at a premium price. So, while it costs more to gear up Canadians, once they have their gear it is less expensive to get on the ice.

Yes that is true as in the Toronto area there are more rinks spread out throughout the city which means that there are more opportunities for teams to get ice rental for practices and not needing to share the ice even though in some cases they do because some rinks still charge a premium based on the time. Outside of of the GTA it is a bit easier to get ice and with many smaller ice rinks opening up (three on three size) this has made it better for teams with tyke and squirt players because they don't need a full size rink.

It really is all about supply and demand for ice and that can be said for in regards to hockey gear even though at my store we have 3 stores within a 10-20 minute drive and one of them is a big box store much like the major online hockey store in the US market. These stores do drive out the smaller mom and pop or independent stores with them getting max + discounts on the gear so they can actually sell the product for what the manufacturer suggests them too and make higher GPM or they can go lower then the independent can and drive them out of that part of the town. With the hockey world as it is today in some cases being very price driven I would find it hard to say that in most of our life times the independent stores all fading into the distance and going to online retailers as they can offer lower prices as they do not have as much overhead to consider. The cross border shopping aspect will always be there because of how the currency exchange dollar to dollar is almost exact and the Canadian manufacturers do realize this from when they meet with there US-counter parts when they have there yearly sales meetings as a whole company. The one weird thing that not sure if this has been mentioned already is that Bauer US pays less for there skate then Bauer Canada which is somewhat crazy as you would think that both companies would get the same price for the skate so Bauer Canada every year gets blasted by there retailers especially in the past two years with the dollar so close and especially the stores that are right near the border and if not as many stores in Canada are buying skates compared then they are being affected by this as well so not only are retailers being affected by this but the Canadian manufacturers are affected by this also because if stores are not ordering as much product in then they can but very less likely to close down there Canadian office and just have the factory and even that they may move down to the states. The manufacturer are working to find a way to resolve this whole price issue without getting both sides in an argument but who knows in a year or more the Canadian dollar might once again drop in price making the US stores get upset about the US consumers as before shopping over the border in Canada because they can buy more if there dollar is worth more.

The price issue if no one has also discovered has prompted more Canadian teams to go to tournaments over the border where before Canadian teams wouldn't because of the cost of getting into the tournament the hotel and food and the US teams would come over and play in Canadian tournaments the main one here in the GTA was the Wonderland tournament which at one year boasted over 120 teams attending in a wide category of ages and levels but now that tournament is not as big compared the the tournaments that have been growing strong over the past couple years in Detroit and Minnesota.

Give time and the roles can be reversed again like they were for most of the past 15years where the US consumers took advantage of there strong dollar to buy equipment here in Canada.

[Jakedajewler 1]

Some good points brought up here, I'm not sure which of you are correct but I know in some cases I can save $80 to $100 on a stick buy purchising from the U.S and well that's what I do. The prices here are insane, and i've heard more and more people buying from sites in the states.

[raganblink 82]

soga brings up a great point - if the USD gets back in concerns to the CAD ratio, then you'll see americans in border towns going up north to buy product. This happens all the time and was that way for a while. Now that the roles are reversed, canadians seem pissed, when for the longest time, they actually got gear at a slightly cheaper price than americans did.

[Beflar 53]

I only have a problem with the hockey sticks. If they fixed that and kept everything the same I think I would be fine.

When you break a $300 stick, no matter how much you make, you just feel bad and a little dumb... If the same stick was only $200 I would feel %33 less bad and 0% dumb:)

[sogaduch 0]

I only have a problem with the hockey sticks. If they fixed that and kept everything the same I think I would be fine.

When you break a $300 stick, no matter how much you make, you just feel bad and a little dumb... If the same stick was only $200 I would feel %33 less bad and 0% dumb:)

Big question would be would you buy say an S19 retail stick for $150 but without a Warranty on it at all? Few reasons for the price ticket on the S19 aside from design and such is from what I have heard is warranty fraud which is why many of the big boys have gone to a direct warranty policy and had retailers put stickers on the receipt at time of purchase.

[Ron 0]

In Canada there are 574,125 registered hockey players(men, women, children)= 1.76% of the population. In the US, there are 485,018 registered players = 0.16% of the population. So, actually there is more demand in Canada than the US since they have more players. Geographic size is not relative at all.

Those numbers are very surprising to me. Yes Canada is a hockey heavy country, but I would have figured the total number of hockey players in the US to be in the 1-2 million range (no idea why, just a guess) which would bring the % to about 0.6% of the US population, still about 1/3 of the Canadian percentage but over 3 times the actual number. Once again, I have no idea where I am pulling my numbers from, but I am frankly surprised by the low number of you Yankee hockey players :)

The one weird thing that not sure if this has been mentioned already is that Bauer US pays less for there skate then Bauer Canada which is somewhat crazy as you would think that both companies would get the same price for the skate so Bauer Canada every year gets blasted by there retailers especially in the past two years with the dollar so close and especially the stores that are right near the border and if not as many stores in Canada are buying skates compared then they are being affected by this as well so not only are retailers being affected by this but the Canadian manufacturers are affected by this also because if stores are not ordering as much product in then they can but very less likely to close down there Canadian office and just have the factory and even that they may move down to the states.

Why does Bauer US pay less for the same skate as Bauer Canada? Tariffs/duties will play into this a bit, but not as significantly as the price gaps will suggest. And based on DarkStar's numbers, Canada has more total hockey players than the US anyways so the demand for gear should be greater in Canada and therefore volumes ordered by retailers should be higher also. Something just doesn't add up

[wrangler 157]

Those numbers are very surprising to me. Yes Canada is a hockey heavy country, but I would have figured the total number of hockey players in the US to be in the 1-2 million range (no idea why, just a guess) which would bring the % to about 0.6% of the US population, still about 1/3 of the Canadian percentage but over 3 times the actual number. Once again, I have no idea where I am pulling my numbers from, but I am frankly surprised by the low number of you Yankee hockey players :)

Why does Bauer US pay less for the same skate as Bauer Canada? Tariffs/duties will play into this a bit, but not as significantly as the price gaps will suggest. And based on DarkStar's numbers, Canada has more total hockey players than the US anyways so the demand for gear should be greater in Canada and therefore volumes ordered by retailers should be higher also. Something just doesn't add up

It could be that a higher percentage of Canadian hockey players are "registered". These numbers may not tell the whole story.

[t6lock 24]

Some good points brought up here, I'm not sure which of you are correct but I know in some cases I can save $80 to $100 on a stick buy purchising from the U.S and well that's what I do. The prices here are insane, and i've heard more and more people buying from sites in the states.

I'm definitely trying to buy all my gear in the states now, except maybe skates and sticks

[Lostkoz 0]

soga brings up a great point - if the USD gets back in concerns to the CAD ratio, then you'll see americans in border towns going up north to buy product. This happens all the time and was that way for a while. Now that the roles are reversed, canadians seem pissed, when for the longest time, they actually got gear at a slightly cheaper price than americans did.

This is what I remember doing in late 70's and early 80's as a kid. Every summer after hockey camp in Port Hope Ont, when parents would come up to pick me up they would always buy me new equipment and then tell US border folks we didnt buy anything, we were just returning from hockey school. LOL, too funny.

[DarkStar50 679]

If you're old enough to remember Cupolo's from way back then with big ads in The Hockey News, you're old.

[Lostkoz 0]

If you're old enough to remember Cupolo's from way back then with big ads in The Hockey News, you're old.

LOL, gee thanks. Will be 41. The selection and demand for hockey equipment in Pittsburgh back then (pre Lemieux boom)was lacking. Always got better selection and price up in Canada. And yes, I was a Hockey News subscriber and remember all the adds. Cant remember if it was Cupolo's but it was some place in Niagra cause we would always hit the falls for a day.

[wrangler 157]

LOL, gee thanks. Will be 41. The selection and demand for hockey equipment in Pittsburgh back then (pre Lemieux boom)was lacking. Always got better selection and price up in Canada. And yes, I was a Hockey News subscriber and remember all the adds. Cant remember if it was Cupolo's but it was some place in Niagra cause we would always hit the falls for a day.

Doesn't sound old to me; maybe to a wisecracking youngster.

[Chadd 916]

If you're old enough to remember Cupolo's from way back then with big ads in The Hockey News, you're old.

They had some really odd and sketchy stuff when I was there ten or so years ago.