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Caz

My beef with Alex Ovechkin

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Let me start by saying, I think Alex Ovechkin in a Hall of Fame Player for sure as long as he keeps his current streak of things. Meaning, I think he is a great player, and probably one of the top 5 in the league overall.

Here is my beef with the Gr8 8. Starting out with his playing style, after watching him over the past 5+ years, I have a pretty good idea of his playing style, and I have a pretty fair amount of examination of his game. My first beef with his game is his lack of effort in the Defensive Zone. Watch film of him in the D-Zone, he literally stands around more than ANY other player on his team, and one of the most effortless D-players in the league. But as soon as high hockey senses tell him that his team is in an opportunity to make a Offensive rush, he puts what seems 100% effort into the game.

Next, is his style of hitting. First of all, he hits to injure about 60% of the time, and hits for possession of the puck about 40%. Watch some of his film, a majority of his hits are #1, a DEFINITE charging, meaning taking at least 5-7 FULL, POWERFUL strides, to where he anticipates where his target is going to be. #2 is the amount of times he leaves his feet (which I know has been debated on, but I am just listing it, because he does it MORE than others). That is not to say that's the only way he hits, and also that also doesn't mean others do it A LOT less, but he more than certainly does it quite a bit more than others.

After that, I get a more in-depth. Skating stride, watch his style of stride, first of all, its actually pretty slow. He bobs (Spelling?) his head and torso while in full speed. And he kicks his heals way up in his stride, along with not coming back to center with his stride. Also, he swings his stick a lot when he skates, not moving his momentum with his arms back and forth parallel with his legs (losing lots of energy). The ONLY reason everyone likes how he looks while he plays is because his strings in front and a lot of his equipment is moving violently and makes him look like he is faster than everyone else, and in fact really slower than he COULD be.

I have many other problems with his game, and I might update with more later, but lastly I will end with his Captain-ing ability, or in my opinion, lack there of.

Now, before I jump into this topic, I can't say this for sure, because I have never been in the building to watch him in TV timeouts, and other stoppages, nor have I seen him in the locker room. But that is where my lack of knowledge stops. Lets look at the facts, winners of Stanley Cups over the past 10 years.....2009-10 - Chicago Blackhawks, 2008-09 - Pittsburgh Penguins, 2007-08 - Detroit Red Wings, 2006-07 - Anaheim Ducks, 2005-06 - Carolina Hurricanes, 2003-04 - Tampa Bay Lightning, 2002-03 - New Jersey Devils, 2001-02 - Detroit Red Wings, 2000-01 - Colorado Avalanche, 1999-2000 - New Jersey Devils. What do all of these teams have in common, GREAT LEADERSHIP. Some more than others, but 8/10 arguably had Hall of Fame Leaders. I have yet to see OV come out of his shell and become a great leader. IMHO, he doesn't need to be the Captain, maybe alternate captain. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, but I also don't think he needs it, let him get 150 points and give the C to someone else.

I'm done venting, but I will close with this last piece. In his post-game interview after Game 4, 2-3 days ago, he didn't know what to say after getting swept, now I will agree some people should be speechless, but your the CAPTAIN, and MAIN MAN in Washington, you need to say SOMETHING.

You have a point to make, or beef with one of my thoughts, lets discuss.

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You do bring up a lot of valid points. He does hit to injure, he appears to always be on offense even when in the d-zone. There was an interview done with him, I don't think it was with the 24/7 series and it really showed the real comparisons of Ovi to Sid. One question was something that's changed about you since you started playing in the NHL. Sid's response was I've learned I don't have to be the only guy, use my teammates around me, I've grown up. Ovi's response was that all that's changed about him was a broken nose. It really hit me at this point Ovi still does not know how to win. He is still that 17 year old kid who played for russia at the 2004 world cup. Just my 2 cents.

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Good points Caz. I can see where you are coming from with the hitting to injure, seeing as a majority of his hits he does tend to charge or leave his feet. He has a reckless style of play and this seems to lead to his rep of hitting to injure as you put it.

However, I feel that he has been using his teammates more than previously while also being the biggest contributer on the team. He is definatley a very exciting player to watch and he is the face of the capitals so he should have something to say after being swept.

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Great points as well as his very apparent lack of leadership, he needs the C removed like the Canucks did with Luongo.

One other point I notice with Ovy is his inability to effectively use his teammates. Has the guy ever heard of a give and go?

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Because Ovechkin doesn't play D, Backstrom has to do it for both of them..

And that worked out so well against TB...

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Needless to say, next season is critical for two people in the Caps organization: McPhee and his team management decisions, and OV and his game. I do think he skates faster than you may think but many of his other on ice decisions need to be improved. If the Caps make a few moves the wrong way this summer, they will be the next version of the Ottawa Senators a few years ago: a lot of talent with nothing to show for it.

This is a good analysis to read of the Capitals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/tampas-championship-pedigree-trumps-capitals-talent/article2011221/

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Needless to say, next season is critical for two people in the Caps organization: McPhee and his team management decisions, and OV and his game. I do think he skates faster than you may think but many of his other on ice decisions need to be improved. If the Caps make a few moves the wrong way this summer, they will be the next version of the Ottawa Senators a few years ago: a lot of talent with nothing to show for it.

This is a good analysis to read of the Capitals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/tampas-championship-pedigree-trumps-capitals-talent/article2011221/

Its weird with OV, with his skating style, he LOOKS faster than he actually is. Its hard to explain, but because of all his pads, and his body movement, he looks a lot faster than he actually is. It works (sort of) for him, but he could be MUCH faster (a full second and a half on his single lap time) with better form and tighter fitting gear....but thats why my generation of kids like him, cuz he has mad sty points as he scores. IMO its pathetic for kids to not see his faults.

Kids shouldn't look up to OV for his entire game or any part of it except for his talent to finish.

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Why do people always compare Crosby and Ovi....They are 2 completely different types of players, one is a hard hitting offensive orientated player and the other is not.

When you compare a player you compare them to the similar roles they play in a team eg Kesler and Holmstrom, both play infront of the net and get down and cop a beating

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I also disagree. Ovechkin is a pretty quick skater. He doesn't have a smooth style of skating by any means. He subscribes to the train tracks skating style which is great for quick starts and acceleration (what you need in the NHL...) but horrible to watch. He also appears to be very heavy on his skates. When his feet are on the ice, he's on the ice.

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If he is as slow as you think he is, why do D-men back up so much? why can't D-men control the gap on OV if he is as slow as you think he is?

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Why do people always compare Crosby and Ovi....They are 2 completely different types of players, one is a hard hitting offensive orientated player and the other is not.

When you compare a player you compare them to the similar roles they play in a team eg Kesler and Holmstrom, both play infront of the net and get down and cop a beating

No one except for you has brought up the old OV vs. Crobsy on this thread........jus sayin.

I don't agree with this whole Ovi being slow and it all being an illusion nonsense.

.....Ok, why? Not trying to be rude, but an argument might work instead of just stating that you disagree....refer to the next poster on how to debate.

I also disagree. Ovechkin is a pretty quick skater. He doesn't have a smooth style of skating by any means. He subscribes to the train tracks skating style which is great for quick starts and acceleration (what you need in the NHL...) but horrible to watch. He also appears to be very heavy on his skates. When his feet are on the ice, he's on the ice.

I actually agree with this a lot. The only difference between your opinion and mine is the fact that I think he could be faster than he is now if he changed up his stride slightly. He is undoubtedly quick, but he also first, could be much quicker, and second his stride shouldn't be looked up to. Again, my first problem with his stride is his head-bob, it really kills a lot of his energy when he skates, and second is his flailing stick and torso, if he stream-lined it, he could be much more efficient.....(perhaps the reason why he doesn't play any D-Fence, b/c he is tired from using energy when he doesn't need to).

If he is as slow as you think he is, why do D-men back up so much? why can't D-men control the gap on OV if he is as slow as you think he is?

D-men actually figured him out this past season, look back at a few of the better squads in the East (Pitt, Philly, Montreal, Boston, Lightning) all of their top D-men have learned to gap up better on him, and to not let him use them as a screen as much.

^ 2nd Biggest reason why his scoring was down this past year, behind #1, being him trying to learn to play D more, and play more selflessly.

Think about it, how many times this past year did he score (compared to in past seasons) when he did his signature, 3-4 quick strides past the blue line, small toe drag, snap shot. Not as much.

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I actually agree with this a lot. The only difference between your opinion and mine is the fact that I think he could be faster than he is now if he changed up his stride slightly. He is undoubtedly quick, but he also first, could be much quicker, and second his stride shouldn't be looked up to. Again, my first problem with his stride is his head-bob, it really kills a lot of his energy when he skates, and second is his flailing stick and torso, if he stream-lined it, he could be much more efficient.....(perhaps the reason why he doesn't play any D-Fence, b/c he is tired from using energy when he doesn't need to).

First off I don't think any of us are in a position to tell Ovechkin how to skate better, no offense but he is a professional hockey player. I'm sure hes had skating coaches etc. and this is the style that works for him. Kind of like how in golf Furyk has the ugliest swing ever but it works so why change it. I'm sorry but I didn't feel the need to explain myself because its pretty clear cut Ovechkin isn't slow. I watched him burn the Tampa d the other night and was amazed at how fast he was.

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No one except for you has brought up the old OV vs. Crobsy on this thread........jus sayin.

.....Ok, why? Not trying to be rude, but an argument might work instead of just stating that you disagree....refer to the next poster on how to debate.

I actually agree with this a lot. The only difference between your opinion and mine is the fact that I think he could be faster than he is now if he changed up his stride slightly. He is undoubtedly quick, but he also first, could be much quicker, and second his stride shouldn't be looked up to. Again, my first problem with his stride is his head-bob, it really kills a lot of his energy when he skates, and second is his flailing stick and torso, if he stream-lined it, he could be much more efficient.....(perhaps the reason why he doesn't play any D-Fence, b/c he is tired from using energy when he doesn't need to).

D-men actually figured him out this past season, look back at a few of the better squads in the East (Pitt, Philly, Montreal, Boston, Lightning) all of their top D-men have learned to gap up better on him, and to not let him use them as a screen as much.

^ 2nd Biggest reason why his scoring was down this past year, behind #1, being him trying to learn to play D more, and play more selflessly.

Think about it, how many times this past year did he score (compared to in past seasons) when he did his signature, 3-4 quick strides past the blue line, small toe drag, snap shot. Not as much.

I don't think he would be any faster with a parallel arm swing vs his side-to-side arm swing. The parallel arm swing seemed to be a 1980's power skating innovation from track and field sprinting, but AFAIK no studies have shown that one arm swing is more effective than the other. Most 500m long track speed skaters seem to use a side-to-side arm swing.

I also don't think that he would be any faster with a centreline skate recovery; for the distances covered playing hockey, I think a centreline recovery would slow him down because a smaller proportion of his stride would be in the power producing position.

His skate recovery is high and elliptical, but that could be because his stride recovery is fast and powerful. I think as long as his stride rate is high enough it's OK; it doesn't have to be efficient. Markus Naslund's skate recovery was also quite high.

His head bobbing and flailing stick might be needed for him to retain his balance, since his strides are so powerful. As a whole, I agree that his skating style is not efficient, but it does give him the top-notch acceleration that his game is based upon.

I've read that Ovi's off-season training is not as intense as other elite players', and that his off-season recovery and diet might not be as structured. If this is correct, as he enters his prime years he may need to pay more attention to these areas to ensure that his injuries are limited and that his physical peak is prolonged. Maybe the Tampa Bay sweep might motivate him to change his off-season habits, or it might discourage him so that he prepares less.

Ovi's hitting style might get him into suspension trouble next season, once the NHL standardizes on what constitutes a dangerous hit.

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Next, is his style of hitting. First of all, he hits to injure about 60% of the time, and hits for possession of the puck about 40%. Watch some of his film, a majority of his hits are #1, a DEFINITE charging, meaning taking at least 5-7 FULL, POWERFUL strides, to where he anticipates where his target is going to be. #2 is the amount of times he leaves his feet (which I know has been debated on, but I am just listing it, because he does it MORE than others). That is not to say that's the only way he hits, and also that also doesn't mean others do it A LOT less, but he more than certainly does it quite a bit more than others.

This is my only beef with Alex Ovechkin. I am a die hard Penguins fan, and aside from this (and it's not just being bitter about the hit on Gonchar in the '09 playoffs), I would want him on my team any day of the week. Guy is a terrific player, a superstar, but those hits bother me to no end.

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I'm not going to really join this topic, can't stand the guy so why get into it, but he is so hurt through they year he is going to play for Russia in the WHC. Great he's playing for his country while alot of guys from all countries say no, but don't give the I'm so hurt excuse and then head off to play.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=364833

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Has he had anyone in the room with him since he's been with the Caps that would be someone we'd all say would be a good mentor leadership wise? Everyone always compares Crosby and Ovechkin as captains, but Crosby has been in the room with the likes of Lemieux, Recchi, LeClair and even Orpik now. Maybe it's time they try to get someone for a full season that can show him the right way to lead a team. I'm not saying Ovi isn't a good leader or anything but there's a reason that team can't win in the playoffs and it surely isn't because of a lack of talent

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Because Ovechkin doesn't play D, Backstrom has to do it for both of them..

Backstrom was garbage in the playoffs. As stated in another topic he was last year's semin.

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Ovi is fast. Doesn't matter if he bales hay for 200 feet, he's got wheels. Next do you want to talk about how Gretzky should have been taking Laura Stamm classes on the weekends?

He has never been a playmaker. He's been a goal scorer. But, this year he's seen the ice better than any other time in his career. Is he getting credit for this? Not really.

Also, what the hell was there to say after getting swept? What's he supposed to say as a leader? "We all sucked.....See you next year"?

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I agree that OV has much to learn, especially having faith in his team mates. When the team is under pressure, he tries to take over and do it all on his own. In the playoffs, that's not a recipe for success. I also am driven crazy by his imprecise passing and frequent turnovers when he rushes the zone. He simply doesn't have Datsyuk's (or Backstrom's) hands and body positioning.

Now to play devil's advocate, I'll note a few things:

Regarding defensive play: Remember, he's a winger. His assignment in the defensive zone is much higher and less demanding than a center or defenseman. He's not supposed to be clearing out the crease or covering the low slot. And, especially in the last couple of years, I've noticed him being the first foward back on the backcheck. That's not floating to me.

Regarding his speed: The guy had knee surgery in the middle of the season. This is probably not the year in which to judge his speed. And, even so, note the point above. How often is he the first forward back on a backcheck? I've been frustrated by the team's play in general, but his dedication to breaking up rushes from the backside has impressed me over the last couple of seasons.

Regarding leadership: The guy is still working on learning the language. He's also still learning to rein himself in. I'm not sure giving him the C was the best choice. That said about how appropriate the captaincy may be for him, look at what he has done in five years. He's been asked to be an ambassador for the spor, the league, and his team and he has made a serious effort to learn the language and he gives interviews and shoots promos all the time. For that, he deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He didn't have to do any of that. As a comparison, look at Malkin (or Semin). Truly awesome player, but has made little effort to learn the language and interviews infrequently. That's fine, too, but it's illuminating of what is being asked of Ovechkin and how he has stepped up.

On the whole, I think there is a lot more to like there than to dislike. He clearly made an effort to change his game this year. I'm not sure that can be said about some of the other guys in the roster. The team seems to have the talent to win a Cup. I think they need a coach who is not a player's coach and some more veterans in the locker room who can control emotions when things get tight. For the sake of the league, I hope they can get it and give the team and OV a chance to reach his full potential.

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Ovi is fast. Doesn't matter if he bales hay for 200 feet, he's got wheels. Next do you want to talk about how Gretzky should have been taking Laura Stamm classes on the weekends?

He has never been a playmaker. He's been a goal scorer. But, this year he's seen the ice better than any other time in his career. Is he getting credit for this? Not really.

Also, what the hell was there to say after getting swept? What's he supposed to say as a leader? "We all sucked.....See you next year"?

All good points; my leadership comments weren't about his comments pre and post game 4 because you're right what the hell is he supposed to say??? My opinion is based on the fact that for the last few years we've seen a very talented team seemingly lay down and die in the playoffs

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Has he had anyone in the room with him since he's been with the Caps that would be someone we'd all say would be a good mentor leadership wise? Everyone always compares Crosby and Ovechkin as captains, but Crosby has been in the room with the likes of Lemieux, Recchi, LeClair and even Orpik now. Maybe it's time they try to get someone for a full season that can show him the right way to lead a team. I'm not saying Ovi isn't a good leader or anything but there's a reason that team can't win in the playoffs and it surely isn't because of a lack of talent

This is an excellent point, look at Brad Marchand hes had the likes of Recchi guiding him all year.

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