P88 in heel curve

[innotastic 12]

i have used the p106 and p88 extensively and used the harrow 11 a handful of times.

the harrow 11 kinks at the heel, and opens up just a tad, but not as much as the p106. it then flares open for the last 1/3 of the blade at the toe. it is much more open then either bauer curves. the real difficulty in the curve is how much kink there is in the heel. the harrow 11 lie and bottom profile is almost exactly the same as my pm9 blade, and about a centimeter longer than the p88.

its a very interesting curve and wrist shots aren't all that bad with it. for someone like me whose used only the p88 and p106 for the last many years, the harrow 11 is a bit too open and unwiedly.

[Jarick 5]

I thought the P106 was close to a 5 lie? It seemed closer to a PM9 last I checked. Maybe they changed it.

What about just cutting the stick a bit shorter? There's always some compromise with a retail curve.

[metalwinger13 1]

what about the kovalchuck curve with warrior. that seems to be a heel type curve.

[TeamHonda401 54]

what about the kovalchuck curve with warrior. that seems to be a heel type curve.

The Kovalchuk curve is more like a mid curve, that gets more severe as you go towards the toe. It has no wedge whatsoever, with the blade being perpendicular to the ground from heel to toe. His retail curve at least.

[ponder 0]

i have used the p106 and p88 extensively and used the harrow 11 a handful of times.

the harrow 11 kinks at the heel, and opens up just a tad, but not as much as the p106. it then flares open for the last 1/3 of the blade at the toe. it is much more open then either bauer curves. the real difficulty in the curve is how much kink there is in the heel. the harrow 11 lie and bottom profile is almost exactly the same as my pm9 blade, and about a centimeter longer than the p88.

its a very interesting curve and wrist shots aren't all that bad with it. for someone like me whose used only the p88 and p106 for the last many years, the harrow 11 is a bit too open and unwiedly.

Hmmm, good to know, thanks. Might just stick with my P106 then, I like open heel curves, but not ones that kick way open.

I thought the P106 was close to a 5 lie? It seemed closer to a PM9 last I checked. Maybe they changed it.

What about just cutting the stick a bit shorter? There's always some compromise with a retail curve.

It's really hard to judge the lie on this curve because its got a great big rocker, offset from the middle (more to near the heel), hard to say what angle it "should" be held at, and thus what lie it plays like. But if you wanted the tape wear to be in the middle of the rocker (which is not actually mid blade), you'd have to hold it closer to how you'd hold a lie 6 than a lie 5 IMO. For example, I cut my P106 sticks a bit shorter than my Drury of P88s to make up for this, to keep the wear mid-rocker. But at the same time, it still works pretty well for me at Drury/P88 stick length, unlike say an Easton Iginla with its square heel/little rocker, which I find unusable unless I cut my sticks quite short, because the pointy/square heel means the contact is all concentrated right at the heel if it's too high of a lie for you, which screws up pass reception, shooting, basically everything.

So yeah, I'd say closer to a 6 lie than a 5 lie, but still pretty usable even if you're naturally more of a 5 lie, unlike flatter curves which are pretty unusable if they're a 6 lie and you're naturally a 5 lie. For example, an exaggerated and poorly drawn diagram:

[Chadd 916]

That's odd, most people feel it plays lower than a P88. And those comparisons don't match up with what I've seen at all

[Jarick 5]

Yes that is strange, I would have thought the P106 would be lower lie than the P88, not higher. And the Iginla should be the same lie as the P88.

Guess I'm lucky that the lie doesn't throw me off that much. The puck is 1" tall so if there's a few mm gap I can still play with it.

[ponder 0]

I will take pictures of all 3 curves when I get a chance and post them here.

[Chadd 916]

I have a P106 and it's only slightly higher in lie than my sub-5 lie blades

[ponder 0]

Taped the shafts from the 3 blades together so they're perfectly in line. White tape is the P88, no tape is the P106, black tape (with the bit of white at the heel so you can see where it is) is the Iginla. Green lines are all parallel to each other, and supposed to represent where the ice would be.

With the P88 the lie feels pretty good, I get wear a bit to the heel of mid blade, but that's where I like it, feels best shooting that way for me. With the bit more rocker on the P106 I feel like the lie is just slightly high, a bit much space under the toe for catching passes and whatnot, but still good for shooting. With the Iginla I feel like I'm contacting too close the heel, and it sort of feels unstable when catching passes and shooting. Definitely subtle differences though, feels much more noticeable to me on the ice for whatever reason than it looks here.

[Chadd 916]

That's not how you measure lie, nor is it a good way when you have rockered blades.

[innotastic 12]

i have used the p106 for many years and it plays like a higher lie than the p88. having said that, you can still play it like a p88 because of the rocker, but most everything will be done at the heel, which isn't the most effective use of the whole blade, or you have to cup the puck quite a bit.

[ponder 0]

That's not how you measure lie, nor is it a good way when you have rockered blades.

Not trying to accurately measure lie here, just trying to show how, for me at my ideal stick length, the P88 plays the most as it should (smallish ice to toe gap, wear in the middle-ish of the blade), the P106 slightly less so but still fine, while the Iggy is the only one I have problems with. In reality I'm more of a 5 lie than a 5.5 lie, but 5 lie curves are much less common than 5.5s, with all of these sticks I cut them a bit shorter than I would ideally like (like 1/2" to 1" depending on the stick) to make up for it, so shift those green lines a touch clockwise for how I actually use them. For people more ideally suited to 5.5 - 6 lie curves naturally (with how long you like your sticks, and how you hold them), I'd think all of these curves would work fine, but if you're more of a 5 - 5.5 type like me, then the Iggy can be problematic with its less rockered heel, the P106 is fine, but the P88 is better.

I have trouble, though, seeing how the P106 could be considered a lower lie than the P88.

i have used the p106 for many years and it plays like a higher lie than the p88. having said that, you can still play it like a p88 because of the rocker, but most everything will be done at the heel, which isn't the most effective use of the whole blade, or you have to cup the puck quite a bit.

Same experience as me. I still prefer it to the P88 because I love the shape of the blade, but I do need to cut my sticks just a touch shorter than with a P88 for the lie to feel right.

[Quasitd 1]

Not trying to accurately measure lie here, just trying to show how, for me at my ideal stick length, the P88 plays the most as it should (smallish ice to toe gap, wear in the middle-ish of the blade), the P106 slightly less so but still fine, while the Iggy is the only one I have problems with. In reality I'm more of a 5 lie than a 5.5 lie, but 5 lie curves are much less common than 5.5s, with all of these sticks I cut them a bit shorter than I would ideally like (like 1/2" to 1" depending on the stick) to make up for it, so shift those green lines a touch clockwise for how I actually use them. For people more ideally suited to 5.5 - 6 lie curves naturally (with how long you like your sticks, and how you hold them), I'd think all of these curves would work fine, but if you're more of a 5 - 5.5 type like me, then the Iggy can be problematic with its less rockered heel, the P106 is fine, but the P88 is better.

I have trouble, though, seeing how the P106 could be considered a lower lie than the P88.

Same experience as me. I still prefer it to the P88 because I love the shape of the blade, but I do need to cut my sticks just a touch shorter than with a P88 for the lie to feel right.

So an odd thing I have noticed when I was playing with the P88. I wear the tape at the toe and the heel to a high degree, but very little wear in the center. Considering I'm still fairly fresh to playing, I'm not sure if this is just the result an odd habit I've picked up or just my way of compensating for the rocker while playing.

Your pics were fantastic by the way for getting an idea of how much rocker those all have though, following this discussion alone has been a nice influx of knowledge for defining the problems I have with each blade I've tried.

[Jarick 5]

I play with a higher lie than I'd prefer, and I tend to cup the puck a bit, which solves a lot of the problems. Then pull the puck closer to the body when shooting and the blade becomes flatter for shooting.

[ponder 0]

So an odd thing I have noticed when I was playing with the P88. I wear the tape at the toe and the heel to a high degree, but very little wear in the center. Considering I'm still fairly fresh to playing, I'm not sure if this is just the result an odd habit I've picked up or just my way of compensating for the rocker while playing.

Your pics were fantastic by the way for getting an idea of how much rocker those all have though, following this discussion alone has been a nice influx of knowledge for defining the problems I have with each blade I've tried.

IMO tape wear is only a good indicator of wrong/right lie from practices that involve a tonne of shooting/passing, not from games. In games you actually don't have the puck all that much, a lot of the wear comes from skating around with one hand on the stick and whatnot, not a great indicator. Go to a stick and puck session, take tonnes of shots for half an hour to an hour or so, passes too if you have someone to pass with, you should get a better idea of what part of the blade you pressure most. Even with blades where the lie is perfect for me, when I'm taking a lot of shots, I get the vast majority of the wear concentrated near mid blade, a bit at the heel (from how I hold my stick skating around one handed), and a bit at the toe too from pulling the puck in with the toe, picking it out of the net, etc. After a stick and puck session with tonnes of shots, though, it should be pretty obvious where your shooting wear spot is.

[toddmanley 0]

After reading through this thread I decided to give the P106 a try. I'm comiing from a P88 and it will be interesting to see what I experience when I use it Saturday.

[Grave77Digger 1]

Too bad you still can't find a TPS Tucker or Bauer Gratton. Those were fairly big, slightly open heel curves.

Its funny that I just finished posting on another site looking for a TPS Tucker then read this as my first thread on MSH in a while. I found the P106 rocker or lie and hook to be to extreme for me coming from the Tucker. The pics I have seen of the Harrow #11 have got me excited though and I think my search may be over. Lots of great equipment info guys, thanks.

[Patrick67 1]

I would definitely recommend the p106, and it has a lower lie than a p88. Have used both blades myself.

[iceburg19 1]

I notice only warrior carries a lie in a 4.

[toddmanley 0]

After reading through this thread I decided to give the P106 a try. I'm comiing from a P88 and it will be interesting to see what I experience when I use it Saturday.

I'm pretty happy with the curve after using it last night. I only had once chance to hit a slapper during the game, but in warm-up the puck was rising up between 2-3 feet from the blue line (my preference). Stickhandling wasn't a problem and the nicest thing was how easy it was for me to throw some saucers to my forwards on the breakout.