Shaving Heels/Toes of Skate Blades

[Neo5370 132]

Title says it all. Nevermind the pro's and cons, I don't even think I understand the point of it. Can someone explain?

[ponder 0]

Never heard of anyone shaving the toe, but I know Kovalchuk shaves the heel. Don't know for sure, but I'm guessing he does it to improve puck-cupping. He uses a big toe hook, so when cupping the puck really aggressively (super-closing the blade), he could actually have a bit of a gap, with the blade touching the ice at the toe and heel but not mid-blade, as it should. Shaving the heel would bring one of the contact points a bit lower to the ice, and get the mid blade back in contact with the ice when cupping the puck aggressively with a big toe curve.

Again, this is just my guess, not confirmed, but it's the only explanation I've heard that makes much sense.

Edit: need to learn to read, responded about stick blades, not skate blades :)

[sharks25 9]

He's talking about skates, ponder. :D

[jimmy 194]

Title says it all. Nevermind the pro's and cons, I don't even think I understand the point of it. Can someone explain?

People usually shave the toe/heel when they get new skates because the new steel has a lot of bulk, compared to their old steel which had been ground away (and bananna shaped) over the years. When they skate on the new steel, it feels awkward, and they stumble, etc. This is because their body mechanics have not adjusted to the new runners. Impatient people who don't want to have to go through the 4-6 sessions required to adapt will have the shaving done so their skates feel like their old ones. Now, having said that, I don't recommend shaving. When you take away steel from the toe and heel you lose performance. It's better to just bite the bullet and go thru the adaptation. Then in the future, do not let your steel get too low.

[ponder 0]

He's talking about skates, ponder. :D

Heh, need to learn to read, nevermind then :)

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

People usually shave the toe/heel when they get new skates because the new steel has a lot of bulk, compared to their old steel which had been ground away (and bananna shaped) over the years. When they skate on the new steel, it feels awkward, and they stumble, etc. This is because their body mechanics have not adjusted to the new runners. Impatient people who don't want to have to go through the 4-6 sessions required to adapt will have the shaving done so their skates feel like their old ones. Now, having said that, I don't recommend shaving. When you take away steel from the toe and heel you lose performance. It's better to just bite the bullet and go thru the adaptation. Then in the future, do not let your steel get too low.

Agreed.

[Neo5370 132]

Agreed.

Good info guys, thanks.

[frankie56 0]

I understand that a sharpener would hate to take steel off just like a mechanic hates to see a dirty engine, or a racing bike with a reflector, but what mechanical advantage to having bulk on the heel? Thinking in particular those that need quick escape moves in tight spaces might want a shaved heel to be a bit quicker, with the cost of giving up some glide?

[Cavs019 708]

That can be achieved by shortening the radius. You still maintain the bulk of the steel when done properly.

[jimmy 194]

I understand that a sharpener would hate to take steel off just like a mechanic hates to see a dirty engine, or a racing bike with a reflector, but what mechanical advantage to having bulk on the heel? Thinking in particular those that need quick escape moves in tight spaces might want a shaved heel to be a bit quicker, with the cost of giving up some glide?

The mechanical advantage is "power" in heel turns. And stability, A short heel radius may be a little betterg for a tighter heel turn, but speed bleeds off quick when the feet are not moving. So, you have to choose, do you want a tighter turn, or more speed in the turn. For the toe, more bulk means more power, faster acceleration. Absolutely zero advantage to having a shaved toe (short toe radius).

[cooperalls 4]

Why anyone would take the long route with anything in life if there is a short cut. Same analogy is here, why would anyone want to waste 4-12 sessions when a knowledgeable sharpener can grind it off to mimic the old ones. Simply remove the old ones place against the new blades trace with a sharpie and grind it over a period of two hours or so, so you won’t burn the blade. As to pros and cons, if you use a very long holder the potential of getting your front toe or back heel catching the ice where you don’t need to catch it is a recipe for a disaster and injury. Why take the risk. The key is not to overdo it and not to ruin the radius when it's done

Cheers

Ideally skaters shouldn't be accustomed clipped steel in the first place. Most of the time low steel in the toe/heel is due to improper sharpening technique. The "banana" blade often occurs from sharpeners starting and finishing their pass too aggressively, or by making unnecessary full length passes when they're getting the edges square. The steel is there for a reason. If it didn't serve a purpose, manufacturers would cut it to a different profile. A proficient skater uses the toe and heel of the steel to their advantage, it is not something to "catch" or "trip over". Having perfectly useful steel ground off new runners is not something I would recommend.

That's like asking an tire shop to wear down a set of new tires because you're used to driving on worn ones. It's a waste of money, the material is there to help you, and you'll end up replacing them again sooner.

[frankie56 0]

The mechanical advantage is "power" in heel turns. And stability, A short heel radius may be a little betterg for a tighter heel turn, but speed bleeds off quick when the feet are not moving. So, you have to choose, do you want a tighter turn, or more speed in the turn. For the toe, more bulk means more power, faster acceleration. Absolutely zero advantage to having a shaved toe (short toe radius).

So if you shave the heel to get a tighter heel turn, you give up speed coming out of the turn? This make sense to me. Thanks for the insight.

Would this be a similar concept to changing the radius from 11 foot to 9 foot? Tighter turns but loss of speed?

[frankie56 0]

Ideally skaters shouldn't be accustomed clipped steel in the first place. Most of the time low steel in the toe/heel is due to improper sharpening technique. The "banana" blade often occurs from sharpeners starting and finishing their pass too aggressively, or by making unnecessary full length passes when they're getting the edges square. The steel is there for a reason. If it didn't serve a purpose, manufacturers would cut it to a different profile. A proficient skater uses the toe and heel of the steel to their advantage, it is not something to "catch" or "trip over". Having perfectly useful steel ground off new runners is not something I would recommend.

That's like asking an tire shop to wear down a set of new tires because you're used to driving on worn ones. It's a waste of money, the material is there to help you, and you'll end up replacing them again sooner.

Well...to race I prefer treadless tires.....unless it's wet.

All kidding aside, seems to me some skate blade profiles would work better with some skating styles. I don't think everyone in the NHL uses the steel profiles just as they come out of the box. For me, I'd like to better understand how the shape of the blade effects how it works on the ice and how that might help or hurt a skater with a certain style of skating. People are happy to experiment with stick blades, but don't seem to pay much attention to, or want to experiment with different skate blades to match their skating style. Maybe because it's much more complex?

One more question for the skate pros. I know the radius does not extend the entire length of a skate blade, but how far does it extend? The middle 1/2?, The middle 3/4?

Appreciate the help from everyone.

[Tondog 12]

I had mine shaved because my new bauer steel was bulky in the toe and I have two other pairs of Velocity Steel that I switch out with. The STEP steel has less steel upfront from the start so I wanted to catch the Bauer up prematurely.

[jimmy 194]

Well...to race I prefer treadless tires.....unless it's wet.

All kidding aside, seems to me some skate blade profiles would work better with some skating styles. I don't think everyone in the NHL uses the steel profiles just as they come out of the box. For me, I'd like to better understand how the shape of the blade effects how it works on the ice and how that might help or hurt a skater with a certain style of skating. People are happy to experiment with stick blades, but don't seem to pay much attention to, or want to experiment with different skate blades to match their skating style. Maybe because it's much more complex?

One more question for the skate pros. I know the radius does not extend the entire length of a skate blade, but how far does it extend? The middle 1/2?, The middle 3/4?

Appreciate the help from everyone.

You understand it correctly. A runner has 3 radius on it. The working radius which is the middle 2/3rds of the blade and the toe and heel radius on each end. All three can be manipulated to achieve the performance a skater wants. I'd say 95% of the time, the stock toe/heel radius are fine and do not need adjusting. In my experience, skaters having issues with these radius usually go away after the adaptation period. If they don't, then we change them. This is different though than the typical skater on new runners who wants to shave right away so they "feel" good from the start. They are changing them for the wrong reason. Actually, some people do this with sticks. They buy a stick, or try a stick, and after 5 minutes decide they do not like it. Once, this high schooler bought a stick and tried to return it the next day. He used it once and didn't like it. Unfortunately, we can't take back used sticks so he left with it because his mother would not buy him a different one. A month or two later he came in and bought the identical stick. I asked him why, didn't he hate the last one he bought. He said, oh no, that's my favorite stick ever!

[Chadd 916]

Ideally, poor sharpeners wouldn't turn skates into banana blades and people wouldn't have to worry about getting used to them.

[Lostkoz 0]

I did that right after I retired an old pair of 652's and bought Vapor XXV's when they first came out. Skated on the Bauers and was tripping and catching the toe all over the place. Had the toes shaved and ruined a perfectly good set of LS2 steel in the process. I bought new steel and had a forward profile put on them and have been golden ever since. I think the fact that I was going from a Tack with a Prolite 3 to a Vapor with an LS2 was probably my problem. I had the toe shaved because I didnt want to wait for that adjustment period, Just like what Jimmy and JR said. Lesson well learned in my book and I will never make that mistake again.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Sid has slowed down quite a bit. A friend of mine visited him in CO just this last month - she says he's still tinkering in his workshop but hasn't done much publicly the past few yrs.

[hockeyAA 0]

you mean profiling? more blade that comes in contact with the ice gives you more speed and stabillity, less blade that comes in contact with the ice gives you better turns, pivots quicker..

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Yes, he has been building a figure skate blade for some time now.

[wHATcOLOR 0]

got what was only the second sharpening on a new set of skates last night. the kid did exactly this (shaved/ground down part of the blade near the toe), and man am i pissed off. burn marks on the toe end, part of the blade ground down. when gliding, i sometimes tripped over my own toes it felt like.

it was at the proshop at the rink. i certainly did not ask for this. all he said "what hollow", and i said "half inch", which is what the shop where i bought them sharpened them to for the first sharpening. i don't think he even got that right, it felt like a deeper hollow.

is my best course of action to just get new steel? (to be clear, not concerned about the wrong hollow, that's simple enough. concerned about the extra steel being ground off of the toe section)

[wrangler 157]

Won't the pro shop replace it?

[wHATcOLOR 0]

perhaps. will take it up w/ them after confirming that replacing the steel is the right option..